1. #20381
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Why? Is there something about delivering things that is overly complicated to the point that a cleaner would be incapable of doing it?
    So you are calling cleaners stupid? Point is cleaners are as capable as Mark Korn, hell they have an advantage over Korn they know more people who work at Blizzard.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    I agree, with most of it Moana. But he apparently did good work at Blizzard
    So he claims can you prove it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by d-fens View Post
    All of the sudden Nost is the best thing ever but before shutdown a lot of people playing there were complaining about the lag, large amount of Chinese players who couldn't communicate in English and various bots, battleground AFK-ers and node campers. (Granted, some of that stuff still happens in current WoW) I wonder how big the Chinese community was actually, I'm fairly sure those numbers of active accounts would deflate immensely with them out of the picture. And if we assume Blizzard would eventually release separate US and EU legacy servers that number would be even smaller. Sure, I bet people playing legacy vanilla realms would enjoy it but I don't think it's profitable enough for Blizzard to even think about it at this point in time.
    What Ive been saying from the start but dont try logic on nost lovers

  2. #20382
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Baaja View Post
    Sorry but that post was garbage. Many of his "points" were absolutely baseless and actually wrong by a mile. Regarding the "toxicity" pro-Nost people have brought you is just a small drop in the ocean in regards to WoW fanboys that cannot objectively discuss the issue at hand. The pro-legacy server folks are in a minority and they are being ignored and belittled by the company that they once worshipped. How would that make you feel? Your love for WoW is mutual, but your opinions differ. And Blizzard has the option, to make both of you happy. Which in the end will help the game live on for even longer.

    How is that so bad? Why are you against options? Why are you against Blizzard (the WoW-team) being, like it once was, community-driven.
    Your post doesn't help your cause.
    If the "pro legacy server" are a minority, they clearly show that this "minority" is the most vocal, and the most "violent" when it comes to debate. This is my personnal view, perhaps i skip some part, but i think this "minority" is really susceptible when you're not agree with.

    And why Blizzard would hear a "minority" who whine all the time?

  3. #20383
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    So you are calling cleaners stupid? Point is cleaners are as capable as Mark Korn, hell they have an advantage over Korn they know more people who work at Blizzard.
    Uhm, no. But nice try. I would imagine that anyone who has a vehicle of some description and is able to lift heavy things or maybe has access to some kind of trolley is just as capable as anyone else at delivering things. I am glad that you are aware of who Kern and the cleaning staff are acquainted with at Blizzard with this kind of intimate inside knowledge it sounds as if you'd be an ideal candidate to deliver the petition. Have you thought of putting your name forward? Do you have a trolley?

  4. #20384
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    you tryin to relive your 20ies to or do you accept that the world keeps turning?
    It's not even about that. The reason I'd enjoy legacy servers would be to experience progression on a quicker cycle than Blizzaqrd can possibly create new raids.
    [Kawaii c@girl IRL]

  5. #20385
    Man, jimmies rustled to the max.

    There's no point to Legacy servers, it's a dose of nostalgia.

  6. #20386
    Just successfully got refunded for Legion. If you pre-ordered Legion and are unsatisfied with their decision, there is absolutely no drawback to getting a refund other than your level 100 boosted character (if you used it) being locked, and you will simply have to order the game again to unlock the boosted char.

    It took a 5 minute GM ticket from their website Live-Chat feature. This is just a piece of information for supporters of Legacy servers/Nostalrius who wish to make their voices heard clearly at no cost to themselves. I myself will re-purchase Legion once Blizzard comes up with what I feel is a reasonable response.

    Again, this post is info for the supporters - Not a catalyst for argument, and I'll be sure to report any non-contributory troll replies.

  7. #20387
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivank0v View Post
    Man, jimmies rustled to the max.

    There's no point to Legacy servers, it's a dose of nostalgia.
    You know that thing you like that I don't like? Yeah, that's nostalgia.

    Silly argument isn't it?
    It's because that's not how it works.

  8. #20388
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetalmoo View Post
    Just successfully got refunded for Legion. If you pre-ordered Legion and are unsatisfied with their decision, there is absolutely no drawback to getting a refund other than your level 100 boosted character (if you used it) being locked, and you will simply have to order the game again to unlock the boosted char.

    It took a 5 minute GM ticket from their website Live-Chat feature. This is just a piece of information for supporters of Legacy servers/Nostalrius who wish to make their voices heard clearly at no cost to themselves. I myself will re-purchase Legion once Blizzard comes up with what I feel is a reasonable response.

    Again, this post is info for the supporters - Not a catalyst for argument, and I'll be sure to report any non-contributory troll replies.
    oh look another whiny kid - dont you worry you will be back in 3 months when pre patch lands like every whiner in this htread and you wont remember jack-shit about legacy then i can bet diamonds against nuts

  9. #20389
    Immortal Zandalarian Paladin's Avatar
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    I'm tired of people shooting the idea of a vanilla server down. I'm utterly tired of it. I'm not sure if it's born out of ignorance; I'm not sure if it's born of fear of having retail degrade in quality. What I know is that a lot of people who try to shoot the idea down wouldn't even be impacted. They act as a moral police, as though Blizzard word was golden. Here's the thing: Customer Service acknowledged that there was a higher demand than expected. This, we know of.

    We know Mark Kern, may you like him or not, was a legendary Blizzard employee whom led Warcraft from the studio to retail. Yes, he made mistakes (though some are made up, and genuinely sad to read - I strongly suspect this to be created by anti-gamergates, as he openly identify himself as a GG - I don't, personally, but pertinent to point out), but his insight in Wow development is strong and worth its weight.

    We also know that the way servers will be implemented can be controlled and adjusted depending on the public reception. We also know that progression can be done, thus allowing several versions of the game to be implemented over a long amount of time.

    We also know that it won't impact the live servers, as a separate team would be created for this. Honestly, if your argument is that this'll take away from WoW, then you forget that a huge chunk of WoW team was sent on Titan - which was cancelled - and then moved to Overwatch. This is without accounting for Hearthstone team and Heroes of the Storm team. These had no impact whatsoever, because they're independent projects. Blizzard filled the vacant positions and nobody say any impact. Legacy servers are no different.

    And yes, we, the pro-legacy people (IE: Not the pro-private servers, which some of you like to point out constantly, erroneously), have a right to request Blizzard with a feature. Yes, they have the right to refuse. They can also realize that it might be a good idea. We've seen both, under the very same circumstances. Flying. Battle ID. Flex Raiding.

    Ultimately, what we ask is to be heard; to begin communication. To iterate with them. We understand there are challenges in implementing this. We also understand that it's a costly endeavor, which is why we have a petition to begin with.

    But for heavens sake, stop trying to shoot down the idea simply because Blizzard said no under completely different circumstances. Stop trying to build fear in the community by saying this will impact live servers. Stop being jackasses simply because you dislike people gathering enough strength to be heard. And most of all, stop accusing Nostalgia. Different style of game for different style of people. I never played Vanilla. Yet, when I played it on Nostalrius, I loved it thoroughly.
    Google Diversity Memo
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  10. #20390
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom4u2 View Post
    Ultimately, what we ask is to be heard; to begin communication. To iterate with them.
    That's fine and all but Blizzard and their players have been iterating on this for nearly 10 years. The "Wall of No" wasn't just made up. It's a compilation of all the times they've been asked about this and come back and said no. You're making it sound a bit as if this is the first time it's come up. It isn't. It's another louder-than-normal episode in a very long argument.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  11. #20391
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    You know that thing you like that I don't like? Yeah, that's nostalgia.

    Silly argument isn't it?
    It's because that's not how it works.
    Playing an outdated, imbalanced, grindy game because you enjoyed it 12 years ago is precisely what nostalgia is.

    The fact that Mark Kern is backing this shows that it's just people living in the past, Mark Kern is the game dev version of the 40 year old that still polishes his highschool football trophies.

  12. #20392
    Immortal Zandalarian Paladin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    That's fine and all but Blizzard and their players have been iterating on this for nearly 10 years. The "Wall of No" wasn't just made up. It's a compilation of all the times they've been asked about this and come back and said no. You're making it sound a bit as if this is the first time it's come up. It isn't. It's another louder-than-normal episode in a very long argument.
    It's been ten years. The game has been constantly declining the past expansion. Over 225 000 voices are currently asking Blizzard to rethink their position. Developers from all ranks and origin also ask Blizzard to rethink their position. Streamers and youtubers alike are making alliances in pledge of backing and creating content for Vanilla servers. Most of all, every single video game news outlets have spoken about this current movement.

    This is not the norm. We're not just an episode; we're the accumulation of all these times where Blizzard shot down the idea. And for good reason, too. Even a year ago, I would've been against it - there simply wasn't enough interest. But today is different and you have to see that.
    Google Diversity Memo
    Learn to use critical thinking: https://youtu.be/J5A5o9I7rnA

    Political left, right similarly motivated to avoid rival views
    [...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..

  13. #20393
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom4u2 View Post
    I'm tired of people shooting the idea of a vanilla server down. I'm utterly tired of it. I'm not sure if it's born out of ignorance; I'm not sure if it's born of fear of having retail degrade in quality. What I know is that a lot of people who try to shoot the idea down wouldn't even be impacted. They act as a moral police, as though Blizzard word was golden. Here's the thing: Customer Service acknowledged that there was a higher demand than expected. This, we know of.
    Personally my main gripe with Legacy servers is the fear of them drastically increasing my main issue with the current state of WoW: Fracturing of the player base. I just can't see how having yet another division in the player base wouldn't end up worsening the issue of insular player groups on current expansions. And while I certainly can emphasize with people enoying and/or prefering Vanilla/TBC/WOTLK, my interests lie with Legion, and I see Legacy servers as detrimental to that.


    Off topic: While I certainly understand that this goes both ways - but you know how confirmation bias goes yadda yadda - I've become hellishly sick of Nostralius somehow becoming the central topic for pretty much any point of discussion on this forum.

  14. #20394
    Quote Originally Posted by Mush View Post
    Playing an outdated, imbalanced, grindy game because you enjoyed it 12 years ago is precisely what nostalgia is.

    The fact that Mark Kern is backing this shows that it's just people living in the past, Mark Kern is the game dev version of the 40 year old that still polishes his highschool football trophies.
    Are you also going to call Nostalgia on people who enjoy, say, earlier versions of Zelda to the newer, more polished ones? That's a faulty train of thought, sorry.

    People like different things. Deal with it.

  15. #20395
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom4u2 View Post
    We know Mark Kern, may you like him or not, was a legendary Blizzard employee whom led Warcraft from the studio to retail. Yes, he made mistakes (though some are made up, and genuinely sad to read - I strongly suspect this to be created by anti-gamergates, as he openly identify himself as a GG - I don't, personally, but pertinent to point out), but his insight in Wow development is strong and worth its weight.
    You do not help your cause when you claim that Mark Kern's past is some sort of anti gamergate conspiracy.

    That said his involvement is being massively overstated by both sides of the argument. He is going to deliver the petition, nothing more, although I assume that the people at Blizzard have access to some sort of internet connected device making its delivery kinda redundant.

  16. #20396
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post

    So he claims can you prove it?

    His track record proves it, he worked on all of the Big3 at Blizzard, and becoming the team leader for WoW. I mean how can I knock what I consider some of the penultimate gaming, and he was the lead on? Vanilla is what I consider good, and he had a major hand in birthing that.

    So, it stands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserneko View Post
    Alright, you've convinced me. You've defeated me with your superior intellect and articulate arguments. All hail Jokerfiend.

  17. #20397
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom4u2 View Post
    I'm tired of people shooting the idea of a vanilla server down. I'm utterly tired of it. I'm not sure if it's born out of ignorance; I'm not sure if it's born of fear of having retail degrade in quality. What I know is that a lot of people who try to shoot the idea down wouldn't even be impacted. They act as a moral police, as though Blizzard word was golden. Here's the thing: Customer Service acknowledged that there was a higher demand than expected. This, we know of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom4u2 View Post
    Ultimately, what we ask is to be heard; to begin communication. To iterate with them. We understand there are challenges in implementing this. We also understand that it's a costly endeavor, which is why we have a petition to begin with.

    But for heavens sake, stop trying to shoot down the idea simply because Blizzard said no under completely different circumstances. Stop trying to build fear in the community by saying this will impact live servers. Stop being jackasses simply because you dislike people gathering enough strength to be heard. And most of all, stop accusing Nostalgia. Different style of game for different style of people. I never played Vanilla. Yet, when I played it on Nostalrius, I loved it thoroughly.
    In that case, you might want to practice some intellectual honesty in your debates.

    But all you do is deflect, misrepresent, demand, and think you can ignore other voices while demanding yours to be heard. Every time I made a good argument presenting the challenges of legacy servers as I see them, people ignored them, built absurd strawmen (like you literally couldn't read what was written and replaced it with something else), or laughed them off without providing a counter.

    And I wasn't the only one. I'm pretty sure if someone decides to go through these 1000+ pages, they'll find a lot of good arguments against, drowned out in a sea of lies and whining.

    You want to be heard? Start learning how to listen, and maybe you'll say something worth hearing.
    Last edited by Coconut; 2016-04-23 at 10:05 PM.

  18. #20398
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speshil View Post
    Can someone with knowledge elaborate on Blizzard's Hardware argument? I.e.Jeff Kaplan's "The old code is designed to run on the old hardware. "

    Is this a legitimate issue or fabricated, seeing how Private Server operators get them to run on today's hardware?
    Private servers don't run the old code. They generally start with an emulator, usually Mangos.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  19. #20399
    Quote Originally Posted by Speshil View Post
    Can someone with knowledge elaborate on Blizzard's Hardware argument? I.e.Jeff Kaplan's "The old code is designed to run on the old hardware. "

    Is this a legitimate issue or fabricated, seeing how Private Server operators get them to run on today's hardware?
    They don't they emulate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  20. #20400
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    I agree, with most of it Moana. But he apparently did good work at Blizzard, which gives him the leading authority on it. Regardless of his past behaviors, doesn't negate what he is saying. It's the genetic logical fallacy.

    Ghostcrawler is basically saying the same things as Kern though. Are we going to discredit him? I will try and find it. Here.

    https://ask.fm/RiotGhostcrawler/answers/137935832459

    Ghostcrawler has everything to benefit from slamming Nost. But he doesn't. Sometimes it's what you don't say that speaks the loudest. Is there denial to this?
    There is so much misunderstanding in your post its startling. He said he will not pick any side, then stated that he feels for the people who lost something (the server shut down), then says Blizzard had reasons for doing it. The biggest comment he made with any clear definition is that in his opinion Blizzard should give a clear cut answer as to why, but that's still his opinion (his words), and one of the things he disagrees with (again, his words as he said he always tries to be transparent). I don't see anything with him agreeing or disagreeing or even being for or against what is happening. And exactly what would he have to gain by slamming a private server?

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