Russian attack aircraft just flew within 30 feet of a U.S. Navy ship

[McDeloud]

There's really no situation in which the Russian military would come out even, much less winning, against the US military. Russia's military setup is highly invested in specialists and mass producing low quality grunts. Which is fine in an old style conventional war.. but because US technology has several decades of progress on Russia's, air superiority is pretty firmly established, and air superiority is at the center of modern warfare. Well armed well trained paratroopers really don't mean anything if they're shot out of the sky, or get bombed as soon as they land.

US has the superior Air Forces for sure (best in the world probably), Russia has the superior AA systems (like s-400/s-500)
In the conventional war US will win, but honesty... it will be a bloodbath. As an european i don't want to fight russians just because some US-warmongers wants it. (Frankly i'm retired vet, so seems like it will be my only son, who is on duty now!!! I DON'T LET HIM!)
If you want to destroy or *or as you usually say* liberate Russia, do it by yourself! Lets body bags flow back to US, not to Europe.

[Hif]

Didn't you guys do the exact same thing in the South China sea? Provoking the Chinese by entering their territorial waters with armed ships?

[Caolela]

So the U.S. steams in or near Russian waters and Russia sends out planes to see what's going on? Is anyone surprised by this? It's clear provocation by the U.S., and to see what Russia might do and if they'll ping them with whatever radars or ECMs they have. It's one way to gather intel on perceived adversaries.

What if a Russian warship was that close to San Diego or Charleston, or came into the Gulf of Mexico? Would anyone have a problem with a U.S. plane overflying it?

[Skroe]

Didn't you guys do the exact same thing in the South China sea? Provoking the Chinese by entering their territorial waters with armed ships?

No because those waters don't actually belong to China. They just pretend it does. We remind them of that.

And furthermore we just sail our ships. We don't get anywhere near Chinese people or ship or facilities.

The Nine Dash Line is a bigger work of fiction than A Song of Ice and Fire.

[jimboa24]

Someday in the not-too-distant future...

[Marcellus1986]

So the U.S. steams in or near Russian waters and Russia sends out planes to see what's going on? Is anyone surprised by this? It's clear provocation by the U.S., and to see what Russia might do and if they'll ping them with whatever radars or ECMs they have. It's one way to gather intel on perceived adversaries.

What if a Russian warship was that close to San Diego or Charleston, or came into the Gulf of Mexico? Would anyone have a problem with a U.S. plane overflying it?

No because it's international waters. The US destroyer was in international waters too. The problem with the incident is the pilots of the aircraft putting their lives and the lives of the American sailors and polish pilots in danger by pulling stupid stunts. If they don't want to cause an international incident, it's most wise to stop pulling said stunts.

Also, what business would Russian ships have near San Diego or Charleston?

[Caolela]

No more or no different than the U.S. has in the Baltic Sea.

[Kellhound]

Didn't you guys do the exact same thing in the South China sea? Provoking the Chinese by entering their territorial waters with armed ships?

We transited through international water that China claims is theirs but said claim is not recognized internationally. China has sent armed ships inside US territorial water in Alaska that the US declared innocent passage.

- - - Updated - - -

So the U.S. steams in or near Russian waters and Russia sends out planes to see what's going on? Is anyone surprised by this? It's clear provocation by the U.S., and to see what Russia might do and if they'll ping them with whatever radars or ECMs they have. It's one way to gather intel on perceived adversaries.

What if a Russian warship was that close to San Diego or Charleston, or came into the Gulf of Mexico? Would anyone have a problem with a U.S. plane overflying it?

It is the reckless and unprofessional manner that the Russians performed the flybys that is at issue, not the fact they performed flybys...

[Marcellus1986]

No more or no different than the U.S. has in the Baltic Sea.

The Baltic Sea is surrounded by NATO countries so yeah the US has more business in the Baltic than Russia has near Charleston or San Diego.

[Kellhound]

No more or no different than the U.S. has in the Baltic Sea.

The US was actively participating in joint training with Poland out of Gdansk.

[Hif]

No because those waters don't actually belong to China. They just pretend it does. We remind them of that.

And furthermore we just sail our ships. We don't get anywhere near Chinese people or ship or facilities.

The Nine Dash Line is a bigger work of fiction than A Song of Ice and Fire.

Says who they don't belong to China? International law is very clear. Why don't you prove it doesn't belong to them instead of listening to your media.

[Kellhound]

Says who they don't belong to China? International law is very clear. Why don't you prove it doesn't belong to them instead of listening to your media.

Yes it is clear, which is why it doesnt belong to China.

[I Push Buttons]

Says who they don't belong to China? International law is very clear. Why don't you prove it doesn't belong to them instead of listening to your media.

Says the entire international community, especially almost every single nation in Southeast Asia...

Why do you think everyone is so cozy with us over there, even Vietnam, a nation you would think would hate us considering we killed untold millions of them four decades ago... They don't "like" us... But they HATE China.

Building artificial islands hundreds of miles off your coast and then claiming all international water out to and beyond said islands doesn't make that water yours... They have virtually claimed the entire South China Sea at this point.



Look at China's claim...

[Marcellus1986]

Says who they don't belong to China? International law is very clear. Why don't you prove it doesn't belong to them instead of listening to your media.

The area is claimed by like 7-8 countries including China. It is an important trading lane in the western pacific. The US is preserving freedom of the seas.

[Ulmita]

Without Russia? Sure.

Without America? The world economy would crumble.

Post ww2 Russia is a saint infront of America. I can't believe the American posters don't get this and this is exactly whats wrong with this world.
The voters (of every country) need to wake the fuck up and soon.

[ringpriest]

We transited through international water that China claims is theirs but said claim is not recognized internationally. China has sent armed ships inside US territorial water in Alaska that the US declared innocent passage.

Actually... a good case can be made that "we" (the USN, the Obama administration, the US government, and the US in general) screwed that up - by invoking 'innocent passage' we implicitly acknowledged that we were transiting waters under Chinese control, and thus that China has a legal right to control those waters. We should have transited under freedom of the seas, and the statement in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, that, "the high seas are open to all states" and thus rejected China's claim to sovereignty extending from what are clearly artificial islands (which are covered by UNCLS, and do not grant sovereignty or any other sort of national claim, though they are legal to build).

[Marcellus1986]

Post ww2 Russia is a saint infront of America. I can't believe the American posters don't get this and this is exactly whats wrong with this world.
The voters (of every country) need to wake the fuck up and soon.

Lol. So naive. And we're talking about current Russia and current America. Try to keep up.

[Ulmita]

Lol. So naive. And we're talking about current Russia and current America. Try to keep up.

It's not even funny anymore when an American calls another nationality naive, when they refer to their warmongering. Jesus Christ...

[ringpriest]

Lol. So naive. And we're talking about current Russia and current America. Try to keep up.

Without weighing in on which (if any) position is "right", I do think it's important to realize that not all people live in the same temporal 'phase' when it comes to history - I think it's something that those of us who grow up in the United States (where the nation is only 200-ish years old, and most cities and states are far less than that) tend to overlook; other cultures can put far more weight on the past, or consider it differently in relation to the present than the sort of default American tendency towards tossing everything outside recent popular memory as "history" and anything outside of living memory (which itself goes further back than people realize) as "ancient history" (or worse, "irrelevant history"). For example, I doubt the impending 100th anniversary of America's invasion of Russia is going to pass by unremarked there.

[I Push Buttons]

Without weighing in on which (if any) position is "right", I do think it's important to realize that not all people live in the same temporal 'phase' when it comes to history - I think it's something that those of us who grow up in the United States (where the nation is only 200-ish years old, and most cities and states are far less than that) tend to overlook; other cultures can put far more weight on the past, or consider it differently in relation to the present than the sort of default American tendency towards tossing everything outside recent popular memory as "history" and anything outside of living memory (which itself goes further back than people realize) as "ancient history" (or worse, "irrelevant history"). For example, I doubt the impending 100th anniversary of America's invasion of Russia is going to pass by unremarked there.

No one here ignores the past, but using things that happened in the distant past as points of contention in the dealings of modern nation states is absurd.

Should we all just live in a constant state of hatred and warfare forever? We have all been killing each other at one point or another for all of history.