blood elves and dalaran in legion

[Deleted]

I don't think he's THAT bad. He's still a human, would be worse if they used some other race (other than human/forsaken)

How can you now that he's not a transwoman or a transgnome? Thats really transphobic of you to assume that he is an undead human male, just because he looks like an undead human Male.

[Amirila]

How can you now that he's not a transwoman or a transgnome? Thats really transphobic of you to assume that he is an undead human male, just because he looks like an undead human Male.

Oh shit. You're right D:

From what we previous know it's not that big of a leap at least!

[Deleted]

At least you admit that Jaina is just like Hitler :P

Nope. When did I said that Jaina killed 6 million european jews?

[Verdugo]

Nope. When did I said that Jaina killed 6 million european jews?

I bet she did as a child.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I don't think he's THAT bad. He's still a human, would be worse if they used some other race (other than human/forsaken)

It's bad because it spits in the face of his entire model /backstory

[Garfurion]

She almost killed all the Orcs!
And then she almost killed all the Sunreavers!
That genocidal maniac.

Don't you mean that almost genocidal maniac ?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Don't you mean that almost genocidal maniac ?

Remeber it's ok as long as somone stops you mid genocide killing spell

[Romanthony]

I seem to recall seeing Some videos of Dalaran the Alliance side is guarded by Greymanes Worgans and the horde is guarded by The Forsaken I think the High elves Left along with Jaina

[Garfurion]

It's bad because it spits in the face of his entire model /backstory

I guess Dark Rangers are supposed to have red eyes and a less decayed body I wonder if this also holds for Forsaken Hunters choosing the Black Arrow talent.

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Remeber it's ok as long as somone stops you mid genocide killing spell

Nothing wrong with a spell that kills genocide

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I seem to recall seeing Some videos of Dalaran the Alliance side is guarded by Greymanes Worgans and the horde is guarded by The Forsaken I think the High elves Left along with Jaina

There are still High Elves in Dalaran. Some are Kirin Tor members some are Silver Covenant.

[Al Gorefiend]

Oh look a thread about blood elves and Dalaran devolved into Hitler and the Holocaust by page 6. I'm honestly not surprised.

[Deleted]

Holy Godwin's Law, the escalation on this thread...

[Oneirophobia]

Azshara was a troll

.... This is just so wrong. She was never a troll. Her ancestors were trolls.

The Night Elves being Dark Trolls was so distant in their history that they outright deny it. If not for the chronicles making it canon, it was only a theory based on a dubious in-game book to begin with.

[Koryn123]

so holding all of a race accoutnable for one man mabye 0.0001%
or holding all of 1 small group of mages partially accountable for a 15% of their group... yeah

Sunreavers didn't do it. The Blood Elf magi you see there are Reliquary mages loyal to Garrosh, who are unaffiliated with the Sunreavers.

The only Sunreaver who knew anything was up was Aethas, and he's the ONLY one.

I guess if the Sunreavers can all be blamed for Aethas being conflicted between loyalties to his people and the Kirin Tor, then I suppose all Kirin Tor can be blamed for Kel'thuzad. He was a member of their organization, after all.

Or all the Silver Hand for Arthas. That's one person in an organization, too.

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The only "crime" any of the other Sunreavers are guilty of is resisting arrest by the group that they know full well hates them.

Jaina isn't queen of Dalaran. She has to talk to the Council and they have to agree before making a decision that affects the city.

The Silver Covenant have no authority. They're nothing but a racist brute squad militia. They're not Dalaran's police force, nor are they any official military of Dalaran. They as an organization aren't even Kirin Tor members, while the Sunreavers were. So the Silver Covenant had no authority, while the Sunreavers actually did have authority.

[Traveler Voltin]

I seem to recall seeing Some videos of Dalaran the Alliance side is guarded by Greymanes Worgans and the horde is guarded by The Forsaken I think the High elves Left along with Jaina

i doubt it.
SC leader Vereesa is neutral in legion(for now)
they are probably off fighting.

[Koryn123]

I guess everyone missed this on the front page last weak:

http://media.mmo-champion.com/images...tifactLore.jpg

Yeah, it shows that not only Aethas, but all the Sunreavers are battered partners blaming themselves for their partner's abusive tendencies.

The Blood Elves were wrongfully persecuted and mistreated by the Kirin Tor for the second time, and Blizzard is writing them as groveling pitiful wretches who would bend over backwards for a pat on the head from their human Kirin Tor masters and forever be mistrusted and hated by everyone in Dalaran, rather than be Magisters in Silvermoon where their skills and insight would be respected and valued.

Nope, instead Blizzard has them being exactly like a battered person, blaming themselves and making excuses for their partner whenever the neighbors call the police after the partner was beating them or making loud threats (or kicking the door trying to get into the house while in a drunken rage, in my neighbor's cases, but the wife beats him back after the police leave, so no sympathy for them).

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i doubt it.
SC leader Vereesa is neutral in legion(for now)
they are probably off fighting.

Lorewise, I believe the Silver Covenant went with Vereesa to serve at the Hunter Order Hall. Where the Farstriders are perfectly happy to work for her and her lapdogs too. When she's a grunt-rank ranger who betrayed her kingdom and called herself a Ranger-General over an organization founded for the sole purpose of opposing the Blood Elves. But no, the Farstriders would totally follow them.

Would've been much better for Auric Sunchaser to be in charge of the mission in the Marksmanship Weapon scenario, since he's Alleria's third-in-command, and was a Captain in the Farstriders under the system that both groups once belonged to, so both groups would recognize his experience and authority. And both groups respect the High Elves that went to Outland with Alleria as heroes of Quel'thalas, so it would make total sense.

But nope. Instead Vereesa is in charge, and is emotionally compromised as Orestes, introduced in MoP says. She stubbornly denies it, and says she's gonna go in alone. Orestes says it's too dangerous. She doesn't listen, so he goes ahead anyway. Then she says it's too dangerous to go alone. Then they get to the other side, and Orestes, the well-meaning rational one, dies, while Vereesa, the stupid hot girl in the horror movie who trips over nothing and makes all sorts of mistakes that should result in her dying to the monster but don't, is the one who survives.

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If all of the Sunreavers are responsible for the actions of one, then all of the humans are responsible for Arthas, Kel'thuzad and the Scourge.

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The Blood Elves were in the process of leaving the Horde. They would be Alliance if not for Jaina. She got in shit by Varian over what happened in Dalaran for a reason.


Arthas was human, Kel'thuzad was a human of the Alliance, therefore the humans are responsible for the Scourge.

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Skimming over your post briefly, I was kind of under the impression Greymane was going to marry off Tess to Anduin to unite Gilneas and Stormwind.

And also because the Wrathrion x Anduin thing is getting too popular and Blizzard wants to quash that.

In Day of the Dragon, Deathwing disguised as Daval Prestor remarked that the only eligible princesses for him to marry to solidify his manipulative relationship with a kingdom would be Calia Menethil and Jaina Proudmoore, but that Jaina was just a young child.

So Tess must have been an infant at that time (Year 10), and would now be 22 or 23. Anduin was born in Year 15, so he'd be 17 or 18.

I dunno, it could be possible, but 5 years seems like a bit of a big age gap.

[Deleted]

Lorewise, I believe the Silver Covenant went with Vereesa to serve at the Hunter Order Hall. Where the Farstriders are perfectly happy to work for her and her lapdogs too. When she's a grunt-rank ranger who betrayed her kingdom and called herself a Ranger-General over an organization founded for the sole purpose of opposing the Blood Elves. But no, the Farstriders would totally follow them.

Sounds like the same story as how the Silver Hand invites happily the Blood Knights as their members, the guys who defiled two of the last sacred and intact sanctuarys of Light in Lordaeron, the Alonsus Chapel and Uthers Tomb and slaughtered the Ghosts of the Knights of the Silver Hand and probably Aurius while defiling the Chapel.

[Koryn123]

Now Kirin Tor is using him to claim priceless Silvermoon artifacts.

Not to mention claiming that recovering an immensely powerful artifact that belongs to your kingdom, and returning it to your kingdom, would make him untrustworthy.

Kirin Tor always put loyalties to non-Kirin Tor humans before Kirin Tor non-humans, then freak out when Kirin Tor Blood Elves put loyalties to non-Kirin Tor Blood Elves before Kirin Tor non-Blood Elves.

They hold the Blood Elf members to a standard they're unwilling to uphold themselves. They're raging hypocrites.

[Verdugo]

Not to mention claiming that recovering an immensely powerful artifact that belongs to your kingdom, and returning it to your kingdom, would make him untrustworthy.

Kirin Tor always put loyalties to non-Kirin Tor humans before Kirin Tor non-humans, then freak out when Kirin Tor Blood Elves put loyalties to non-Kirin Tor Blood Elves before Kirin Tor non-Blood Elves.

They hold the Blood Elf members to a standard they're unwilling to uphold themselves. They're raging hypocrites.

Worst thing is, Blizzard propably didnt intend this, they genuinely think that Kirin Tor is fair. Such amount of ignorance of their own work is mindblowing.

[Koryn123]

What sort of recognition would suffice? Perhaps a small votive next to the cheese monger?

At this point, I don't even need them to say sorry.

All I want is for Blizzard to not portray the Blood Elves as desperate to be the humans' obedient dogs again after being screwed over twice by them, while their leaders are coarse and unsympathetic and unapologetic. Ansirem Runeweaver, one of the members of the Council of Six, alongside Modera, sat and did nothing while Garithos was going to execute Kael'thas Sunstrider, one of their fellow Council members who's loyalties were torn between the Kirin Tor and his people in Quel'thalas.

Kael'thas had given so many years of his life in service to the Kirin Tor and Dalaran, so much so that Anasterian was worried that Kael'thas was too loyal to Dalaran and might have a hard time returning to lead Quel'thalas when Anasterian's time was up.

After Quel'thalas fell, Kael'thas left Dalaran to lead them. He secured the Sunwell from the trolls, destroying it so Zul'jin couldn't use its now tainted magics for bad stuff, and so its energies wouldn't harm the elves. He then rallied the strongest remaining elves and took them back to Dalaran to rejoin the Alliance and help them defeat the Scourge in Lordaeron. Then he was mistreated and not valued by Garithos, used for menial tasks that didn't maximize their potential usefulness, instead being used as meatshields and cannon fodder by Garithos. Then when Kael'thas is forced to accept help from an unsavory group, the Naga, because they were the only ones who offered it, Garithos branded him a traitor and slated he and the rest of his troops for execution.

Punishing the entire army for the leader's decision seems to be a trend among racist Alliance/biased "neutral" leaders.

After all of that, and knowing Kael'thas personally, Ansirem and Modera did nothing while Kael'thas and his troops rotted in the Violet Hold. They would have died had the Naga not rescued them.

Then Ansirem and Modera don't even have the nerve or the courtesy to ask Lor'themar for the Blood Elves' help against Malygos themselves. They send Aethas instead.

Then the Kirin Tor stand by and do nothing again as the Elves are rounded up and persecuted under the Kirin Tor's eye by Jaina.

Then Aethas commits treason just to please them for a chance to fetch their slippers and newspaper like a good doggy, and Ansirem says "How do we know he won't just betray us again?"

That's rich, coming from a two-time offender of betrayal to the party he's accusing of betrayal.


I don't need them to say sorry. All I need is for Blizzard to have someone, ANYONE in-game or in books say "I still don't like you guys, but I'm working with you because we have bigger problems than your douchebaggery to worry about."

Instead of Blizzard having everyone be like "Friendship is AWESOME!" and pretending they don't hate each other, sweeping all their animosity under the rug because they don't want to deal with any of that and want to be lazy and hope people will buy the game to watch the humans defeat the Legion with a tiny bit of help from a few of their non-human friends.

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Worst thing is, Blizzard propably didnt intend this, they genuinely think that Kirin Tor is fair. Such amount of ignorance of their own work is mindblowing.

That's what happens when people don't care about their own story, or are too cowardly to make any decisions that might upset one side of the playerbase that is fractured specifically because Blizzard split them into Alliance and Horde.

Instead, they ignore any story stuff having to do with any conflict between Horde and Alliance, often bending over backwards to avoid it, like making Turalyon and Alleria be omnicient immortal high and mighty above it all celestial beings fighting the Legion for 1,000 years, so they can have them not care about Lordaeron, or the Blood Elves vs. High Elves, and when fans say "How come Alleria doesn't seem curious at all about the state of Quel'thalas?" Blizzard can just say "People change in 1,000 years."

It's so lazy and it makes me sick that they don't care enough about their story to show it the least bit of respect.

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That explains why they're currently 5

Kalecgos replaced Rommath to fill in the 6th spot on the Council.

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The Sunreavers are kissing the arses of the Alliance? Where??

Aethas committing high treason against his nation by reclaiming Felo'melorn, a priceless historical royal family heirloom national treasure passed from father to son since Dath'remar Sunstrider, wielded in defense of Quel'thalas for 10,000 years, then hocking it to the Kirin Tor who've screwed them over twice now, haven't apologized, and even claim the Blood Elves are the ones to blame.

Just for the chance to ask them if he can be their loyal dog licking their boots.

And Ansirem asks how do they know he won't just betray them again. This coming from the guy who betrayed not only the Blood Elves twice, but Kael'thas personally. They were fellow members of the Council of Six, and Kael'thas had given as many years of his life if not more to Dalaran, rather than his own kingdom he was the prince of. And Ansirem turned his back on them and let Garithos execute them, only stopped by the Naga's timely rescue.

And Karlain (the no-name out of nowhere bastard from the Dark Riders comic) says that if he were untrustworthy, he'd have given the sword to one of his own Sunreavers. So he's saying that reclaiming a priceless historical royal family heirloom national treasure of Quel'thalas and returning it to Quel'thalas would be untrustworthy of him.

None of this would be a problem if Aethas or anyone just took a step back after hearing all that and say "You know what? Fuck you guys. I'm not gonna jump through all these hoops just to be allowed back in Dalaran where you'll all hate and mistrust me forever. I'd much rather be a Magister in Quel'thalas where my skills and services will be valued and respected by my people. You guys would probably banish, imprison, or kill me within a month or so on trumped up charges again anyway."

But he doesn't. By remaining silent and pitiful and compliant, he approves of and agrees with their assessment.



That's why the only redeeming element to the Fire Mage questline that I can see is my headcanon of the bearer of Felo'melorn being a Blood Elf mage that takes the sword but doesn't kiss the Kirin Tor's asses, saying "I'll lead these mages in the Tirisgarde, but you're insane if you think I'm going to act like Aethas and be your loyal battered dog."

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Sounds like the same story as how the Silver Hand invites happily the Blood Knights as their members, the guys who defiled two of the last sacred and intact sanctuarys of Light in Lordaeron, the Alonsus Chapel and Uthers Tomb and slaughtered the Ghosts of the Knights of the Silver Hand and probably Aurius while defiling the Chapel.

Believe me, I'd much prefer they not work together. But Liadrin doesn't allow the Blood Knights to siphon their Light powers from the Sunwell anymore, so the only way they can be using the Light nowadays lorewise is that they're good little worthy normal human paladins with long ears and green eyes.

And the Silver Hand decides that if the Light thinks they're okay, then they're okay.

The new Silver Hand is the Argent Crusade who invited the Stormwind and Ironforge Silver Hand, the Tauren Sunwalkers, and the Draenei Vindicators to hang out in their clubhouse and be paladins together.

Now all races are homogenized into the human paladin way of things, which I also hate.


But my beef is more that the "good" guys in the Silver Covenant/Farstrider scenario are willing to be subservient to the bad guys. The Farstriders are the good ones, and the Silver Covenant are the bad ones.

In the new Silver Hand's case (we'll just call the Blood Knights the "bad" ones even though they're not bad anymore, as boring and lame as that is), the "bad" guys are subservient to the "good" guys. The Blood Knights are there at the Silver Hand's invitation, and are only a smaller branch of it, relatively the same size as the Stormwind/Ironforge Silver Hand branch, the Tauren Sunwalker branch, and the Draenei Vindicator branch. The organization is Argent Crusade at its core.

[delus]

ok so, i know blizz doesn't usually do things like this, but is there going to be anything at all in legion where dalaran apologizes to the sunreavers for their betrayal in MoP? in a book, in game, whatever.

my mage is a blood elf, and i even bought the old dalaran buff and used it before mists. after mists and the complete and total betrayal of the sunreavers by dalaran though, i stopped because that was just an absolute shit thing to do. it's gonna be very jarring to me if there's no kind of recognition at all, it'll really hamper my enjoyment of the order hall quest line all together.

They were going for something morally grey with the sunreavers being more guilty but a clusterfuck of writing and miscommunication ended up with the mess we got. It's best to assume guilt on both sides.