Vol'jin or Sylvanas : Who do you find more capable as the Warchief?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Pretty hard to work in private when "Hellscream's eyes are upon you."

Then again they lolblighted Southshore and either hellscream didn't care, or his spies were awful/payed off.

[onesBronson]

Then again they lolblighted Southshore and either hellscream didn't care, or his spies were awful/payed off.

He was honorable at one point in Cata, but eventually it came down to just flat out dominating the Alliance. All points towards him not caring about southshore in the long run.

[Deleted]

The Deathknights should ress either Garrosh or Grom (our Grom) then we get our warchief that will bring us victory.

[Deleted]

Vol'jin is an absolute imbecile, traitor, weakling and pushover. But he wields a plot almost like a Thrall. Power of lore made him create rebellion.
Then there is Sylvanas. That girl got literally killed, and then almost offed the second time. She can do something, mostly moan and sing.
Between these two I would say Vol'jin, he is at least alive. Well, no, it is not a real reason. He is a male, yeah that is why. Although I'm not so sure anymore, is he a male?

What should happen is resurrection of Garrosh or Grom to lead the horde into glorious battles and go on a jolly genocide spree. I wish to see Azeroth painted as Garrosh seen it in his vision; mountains of skulls and rivers of blood. Lesser races must perish!

[Deleted]

Is it too late to bring back the basic campfire for warchief stuff that was popular when Garrosh was first announced as warchief?

[Melsiren]

TBH I wish Blizzard could revisit whole Siege of Orgrimmar to write how exactly it looked like because it made every prominent figure besides Saurfang look incompetent. And I would also souspect that Belves and sylvie at the shore were also not a punching bags you were meant to protect.
I'm sure that each encounter looked far more complicated and deadly than is appeared in game.

In the end it's very important chapter within' the Lore and it's huge pity it was this half-arsed.

Why is that even a suspicion?

There's a clear difference between game mechanics and lore, if Blizzard designed the fight around the actual power of the lore characters involved then it would not be a raid encounter. It would be glorified trash.

It's pretty clear, that the lore characters during Galakras being borderline useless was just a fight mechanic not lore, while other things in the raid.. prime example Vol'jin sending his revolutionaries into the Iron Juggernaut meat grinder is solid cannon.

[Ramz]

Why is that even a suspicion?
It's pretty clear, that the lore characters during Galakras being borderline useless was just a fight mechanic not lore, while other things in the raid.. prime example Vol'jin sending his revolutionaries into the Iron Juggernaut meat grinder is solid cannon.

It's not solid canon, it's speculation. VJ didn't gave them any orders. Unlike Sylvanas in Pit of Saron.

[Verdugo]

VJ didn't gave them any orders.

"Send in da reserves, CHAERGH!"

[Ramz]

"Send in da reserves, CHAERGH!"

As I said no lines were said, so it could be that he had some impatient soldiers. This is why I'd be grateful if entire SoO was revisited to show how exactly each important encounter looked like.

And secondly it would be OOC dor Vol'Jin to waste his people, he is the one that make sure to have the least amount of casulties becuase he can't simply afford it, and becuase he values a lot life of soldiers.

[Wildberry]

On today's episode of: It's not canon because it makes Vol'jin look bad...

Oh, and someone fill me in; did I miss the part where Ramz et al. repeat arguments that have been debunked by multiple posters, time and time again? Or has that part not happened yet?

[Zulkhan]

There's a clear difference between game mechanics and lore, if Blizzard designed the fight around the actual power of the lore characters involved then it would not be a raid encounter. It would be glorified trash.

Actually is the exact contrary. Lore characters aren't barely a strong as the game tend to depict them (like the fact that we need 40 freaking people to bring down one of them).

This means that said characters looking relatively useless in certain instances (at least compared to us) is more faithful to the lore than to the game itself.

[Deleted]

On today's episode of: It's not canon because it makes Vol'jin look bad...

Oh, and someone fill me in; did I miss the part where Ramz et al. repeat arguments that have been debunked by multiple posters, time and time again? Or has that part not happened yet?

don't you agree that vj is unlucky because of the time he was made warchief? there was not much he could do! he had to restore a ruined horde and then face two invasions in a row (wod and legion) that obviously requires to be in peace with the alliance for the greater good. what people expected of him to do exactly? and come on better commander or not he cares way more for the horde than sylvanas does.

[Rend Blackhand]

They should have brought Thrall back as Warchief after Mists. Could have avoided all this shit.

[Zulkhan]

They should have brought Thrall back as Warchief after Mists. Could have avoided all this shit.

No way, Thrall had to do his Draenor journey, meet dad and mom and lose his mind over Garrosh and all the justice he had shove up his bottom.

[Arrashi]

don't you agree that vj is unlucky because of the time he was made warchief? there was not much he could do! he had to restore a ruined horde and then face two invasions in a row (wod and legion) that obviously requires to be in peace with the alliance for the greater good. what people expected of him to do exactly? and come on better commander or not he cares way more for the horde than sylvanas does.

The fact that blizzard decided to cut him off the second something big happens shows that him becoming warchief was unlucky regardless of time. Than again, at least they corrected their mistake quickly and before it did any harm.

[Melsiren]

It's not solid canon, it's speculation. VJ didn't gave them any orders. Unlike Sylvanas in Pit of Saron.

Intro
Baine Bloodhoof yells: Our casualties are too heavy.
General Nazgrim yells: Don't be foolish, Vol'jin! You have no siege weapons left! You cannot win this battle.
Vol'jin says: Ain't no other way, mon. We gotta stop Garrosh here an' now, else we be runnin' the rest of our lives.
Baine Bloodhoof says: Perhaps our new-found reinforcements will aid us.
Vol'jin says: Dey must have taken da docks! Ha ha! Welcome to da' fields of slaughter.
Baine Bloodhoof says: Perhaps there is hope after all!
Aggro
Vol'jin yells: Dey be heroes, no doubt about dat.
Baine Bloodhoof yells: Blessing of the Earthmother be upon them.



You don't get it, it did happen. You might be right about Vol'jin not being the one yelling it, but the Order was given. Trust me I know, I ran that place every single week.

Who ever yelled "Send in the reserves" Is completely irreverent because the order came from some one. If you really want to try to spine this you could make up some thing along the lines that his soldiers could have charged with out his order into the giant meatgrinder, but I think that makes Vol'jin look much worse then what actually happend.

I will be flat out here, I don't like Vol'jin, I've never liked Vol'jin. However, I feel the Iron Juggernaut encounter is one of the few moments where Vol'jin had qualities I liked in a character. He knew he could not win against the giant metal monstrosity, and instead of turning to run he dug his heels down. He knew it was now or never and he'd rather die than run away.


Yeah, it was a horrible tacit but he had no other option. However, to try to claim that it never occurred because -you- feel it broke his character is totally asinine.

Actually is the exact contrary. Lore characters aren't barely a strong as the game tend to depict them (like the fact that we need 40 freaking people to bring down one of them).

This means that said characters looking relatively useless in certain instances (at least compared to us) is more faithful to the lore than to the game itself.

Honestly, if this was pre-WoD I would be arguing tooth and nail that we are nothing compared to the lore characters, that aspect of my outlook on the game and the story is slow to change.

The reason I'm not willing to argue to defend my view on this one, is blizzard is hell bent on making the player character hyper important and powerful.

[Ramz]

Intro
Baine Bloodhoof yells: Our casualties are too heavy.
General Nazgrim yells: Don't be foolish, Vol'jin! You have no siege weapons left! You cannot win this battle.
Vol'jin says: Ain't no other way, mon. We gotta stop Garrosh here an' now, else we be runnin' the rest of our lives.

You're chaning the meaning of his words. He meant that Garrosh has to be fought or else Horde be lost for good. Rebellion was under pressure of time Garrosh was in possesion of the Heart of the Old God.

Vol'jin says: Dey must have taken da docks! Ha ha! Welcome to da' fields of slaughter.
Baine Bloodhoof says: Perhaps there is hope after all!

It just means that combat was much more heavy. It could mean that Both Kor'kron and revolutionaries died. As Nazgrim said "you have no siege weapons left". Meaning that the confrontation with this mechanic monstrosity was extremely drastic.

You don't get it, it did happen. You might be right about Vol'jin not being the one yelling it, but the Order was given. Trust me I know, I ran that place every single week.

I ran it too many times. I got all achievements too (obviously done when the tier was on not later).

Who ever yelled "Send in the reserves" Is completely irreverent because the order came from some one. If you really want to try to spine this you could make up some thing along the lines that his soldiers could have charged with out his order into the giant meatgrinder, but I think that makes Vol'jin look much worse then what actually happend.

I simply think it looked much more complicated than it looked in game. If siege machines were destroyed it just means how deadly the combat was.

I will be flat out here, I don't like Vol'jin, I've never liked Vol'jin. However, I feel the Iron Juggernaut encounter is one of the few moments where Vol'jin had qualities I liked in a character. He knew he could not win against the giant metal monstrosity, and instead of turning to run he dug his heels down. He knew it was now or never and he'd rather die than run away.

Well tbh he didn't had good representation in game, usually he was shown in rather underwhelming way, but he still has potential. He is not ridiculously over the top, or edgy, he knows when to fight and when to wait with it. He had quite a military encounters but people don't remember much about them. Becuase we didn't see him in actual action. I'm pretty sure that once he is actually shown in combat, get bigger spotlight showing how effective he is people would like him more. The fact is that he is the only prominent troll we have, and once he is gone... then trolls are basicly left with nothing. Which is a huge pity becuase thier combat skills, fighting style, and overall theme is very exotic and we didn't actually had a chance to see cinematic showing it or anything of essence. We either see humans, orcs or elves most of the time. And imo that is hardly thrilling anymore.

Yeah, it was a horrible tacit but he had no other option. However, to try to claim that it never occurred because -you- feel it broke his character is totally asinine.

Well then you better argue with Garrosh apolgists, they want to basicly retcon his entire development xD , I merely said that wasting people is not VJ quality, and that is true for basicly his entire development. No matter if you read the story, or you're part of events like reclamation of Echo Isles, or 4.1. dungeons then you see he will do everything to minimalise casulties.

Honestly, if this was pre-WoD I would be arguing tooth and nail that we are nothing compared to the lore characters, that aspect of my outlook on the game and the story is slow to change.

Honestly, it's recently hard to keep a track on all those changes.

[Arrashi]

I will be flat out here, I don't like Vol'jin, I've never liked Vol'jin. However, I feel the Iron Juggernaut encounter is one of the few moments where Vol'jin had qualities I liked in a character. He knew he could not win against the giant metal monstrosity, and instead of turning to run he dug his heels down. He knew it was now or never and he'd rather die than run away.

Yeah, he sure dug his heels, i mean it was amazing how he was leading the charge and jumping right into the fray....oh wait he didn't. He just stayed back.

To quote certain character from Shrek "Many of you will die, but it is a sacrifice im willing to make".

[Baelic]

Personally, it's like choosing between Hilary or Trump. On one hand, you have a leader who MIGHT be good for relations with the other faction and the other one you know for damn sure is going to want to fuck over the other faction each chance they could.

[lunchbox2042]

Vol'Jin has done almost nothing in the franchise. At least Sylvanas has some plot going for her.