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  1. #1621
    @Reticence, when you get an appeal, does it come in a form similar to the following:

    Appeal Valyrian's Lynch:
    Appealer: "Valyrian is totally not scum, don't lynch him, yo."
    TPR: "Valyrian might be scum. Lynch him, yo."

    Basically, do you get clear indications on which source said what? Is it clear and unambiguous that two players provided replies, one from the appealer and one from the TPR?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm going to restart my 2-teams theory.

    Uggor's team:
    Uggor, Virothe*

    Largehorn's team:
    Largehorn, Dupti**

    * Virothe was probably on Uggor's team. This depends on his Appeals Committee ability actually works. There are two possibilities in my mind: 1) He could initiate an appeal, in which case Virothe is on Uggor's team (since Dupti's team definitely has the same role). 2) He could provide input on an appeal (similar to what Ret said Senna and Arlee did), in which case he could be on either team.

    ** Dupti is most likely not on Uggor's team. This is based on Uggor's gambit, which would not make sense if they're both scum buddies on the same team. Admittedly it is possible they could be on the same team even with the gambit, but it's an unconventionally weird play in that context.



    Players NOT on the same team:

    - Uggor and Largehorn. They had the same ability.
    - Dupti and Graeham. Gone after each other aggressively.
    - Dupti and Kurenai. Gone after each other aggressively.


    Players possibly not on the same team:

    - Uggor and Kryllian. Kryllian provided a weak (non-aggressive) position 3 vote on Uggor's train D4, and a stronger (very aggressive) position 3 vote on Uggor D6.
    - Uggor and Xanjori. Xanjori started up Uggor's train D5 and jumped on the train late (6/8) D6.
    - Uggor and Robo. Robo was early on Uggor's train two consecutive days prior to his lynch. It was not a strong push though.
    - Uggor and Celtic. Celtic was the second person on Uggor's train the day he was lynched. It could have been busing on a doomed ally though.
    - Dupti and Celtic. Dupti claiming he protected Celtic N1 likely means he actually tried to kill Celtic N1 (since a kill was missing and Celtic is the person I targeted that night).


    Players possibly on the same team:

    - Uggor and Kurenai. Kurenai seemed too willing to believe Uggor's conviction against Dupti. This could be because of his bias against Dupti.



    With this information considered, I'll amend the possible scum teams:

    Uggor's team:
    Uggor, Kurenai, (Virothe** or unknown*), (Graeham** or unknown*)

    Largehorn's team:
    Largehorn, Dupti, (Virothe** or unknown*), unknown*

    * Unknown, in all four cases, could be any of Xanjori, Robo, Celtic or Kryllian. At the moment, I am not sure I can narrow any of them down further.
    ** If Graeham is scum, if he and Virothe have the same role card, they're not on the same team. If they don't have the same role card, they might be on the same team.



    The logical consequence of this updated list is, unfortunately, that between Graeham, Xanjori, Robo, Celtic and Kryllian, 3 are scum and 2 are not, but I currently have no way to narrow this down further.

    One thing I can potentially do to narrow this down is to point out that Celtic is probably not scum for 3 reasons: 1) His soft claim D1 probably lead to a missing NK, which was in town's favor. 2) Dupti's claim he protected Celtic likely means he actually targeted Celtic for a kill, which (weakly) removes him from being on Dupti's team. 3) His aggression against Uggor D6 helped to insure Uggor's lynch. Considering the push I made prior to that, it's possible he bussed a doomed ally though.

  2. #1622
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    @Reticence, when you get an appeal, does it come in a form similar to the following:

    Appeal Valyrian's Lynch:
    Appealer: "Valyrian is totally not scum, don't lynch him, yo."
    TPR: "Valyrian might be scum. Lynch him, yo."

    Basically, do you get clear indications on which source said what? Is it clear and unambiguous that two players provided replies, one from the appealer and one from the TPR?
    I receive messages from the Appeals Committee and my TPRs. Your example here is actually very, very similar to what I receive.

    One thing I can potentially do to narrow this down is to point out that Celtic is probably not scum for 3 reasons: 1) His soft claim D1 probably lead to a missing NK, which was in town's favor. 2) Dupti's claim he protected Celtic likely means he actually targeted Celtic for a kill, which (weakly) removes him from being on Dupti's team. 3) His aggression against Uggor D6 helped to insure Uggor's lynch. Considering the push I made prior to that, it's possible he bussed a doomed ally though.
    I think I agree with this assessment as a whole, although reading (2) it is worth noting that Dupti could have also protected Celtic N1. That doesn't refute the first point, though, that it was a generally pro-town thing to soft-claim in the first place.

    Did Celtic ever claim his role, or just his character? /looks back.

  3. #1623
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Reticence View Post
    I receive messages from the Appeals Committee and my TPRs. Your example here is actually very, very similar to what I receive.



    I think I agree with this assessment as a whole, although reading (2) it is worth noting that Dupti could have also protected Celtic N1. That doesn't refute the first point, though, that it was a generally pro-town thing to soft-claim in the first place.

    Did Celtic ever claim his role, or just his character? /looks back.
    Sorry I thought it was clear. I'm a regular ole VT

  4. #1624
    I hate posting big walls of text.

    Ret is not going to get counter claimed. The only people who could have are Robo (who didn't), Celtic (who didn't), and Xanjori (who has seen this thread since Ret's claim -- I'm sure of this -- and who didn't). Ret is Bartlet or Bartlet doesn't exist. I'm going to assume the former.

    That means I trust everything that Ret has said is true. Ret *might* be third party (I don't know if that would fit with the theme of the show) but I do not believe he could be SK or mafia.

    At this point, if @Reticence can undeniably confirm that the Valyrian appeal came with 2 bits of information (the appealer's statement and the TPR's input, where they're clearly distinguished and there's no doubt that it wasn't fluff Cruelle added to it), and confirm that the way it was presented to him for Valyrian is the exact same way it was presented for Dupti (with both bits of input provided in the same manner and clearly distinguished), we have no choice but to lynch Graeham.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Reticence View Post
    I receive messages from the Appeals Committee and my TPRs. Your example here is actually very, very similar to what I receive..
    The bolded is interesting. If it's from the Appeals Committee, that might mean the reason wasn't provided by Graeham.

  5. #1625
    Deleted
    Vote Count:

    Kurenai: 2- Catta(1495)/ Celtic(1506)/
    Celtic: 1- Dendrek(1606)


    With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

  6. #1626
    Deleted
    2 hours guys....

  7. #1627
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    At this point, if @Reticence can undeniably confirm that the Valyrian appeal came with 2 bits of information (the appealer's statement and the TPR's input, where they're clearly distinguished and there's no doubt that it wasn't fluff Cruelle added to it), and confirm that the way it was presented to him for Valyrian is the exact same way it was presented for Dupti (with both bits of input provided in the same manner and clearly distinguished), we have no choice but to lynch Graeham.
    The only differences between the two appeals include the targets and the content/style of the actual messages.

    The bolded is interesting. If it's from the Appeals Committee, that might mean the reason wasn't provided by Graeham.
    The message struck me as very Graeham-like (see above note on stylistic differences), but I do acknowledge that there is no way to know for certain if someone might have tampered with the appeal before it made its way to my desk. If it was tampered with, someone went to lengths to ensure that it appeared to be written by Graeham, while making sure that the message didn't actually say anything of value.

    Even so, that possibility doesn't do much to offset his lies, though.

    Unrelated to Graeham, I will note that a case could be made for both messages in Dupti's appeal to have been written by the same person. I'm not at all confident in saying that it is so, just noting that they could be. I also wouldn't know what to make of that, yet.
    Last edited by Reticence; 2016-04-24 at 09:07 PM.

  8. #1628
    At this point the lynch will be on Kurenai or Graeham. For me, the deciding factor will be on Ret's certainty that Graeham provided a reason for Valyrian's appeal.

    In either case, we have plenty of people here who I am confident will vote on the player we end up deciding on lynching (to push them in the minority lynch lead). We need to insure that at least 3 people are on that chosen train just so scum can't push a runaway minority lynch on someone else.

  9. #1629
    Deleted
    I'll be here until midnight but we need to decide soon enough

  10. #1630
    Quote Originally Posted by Reticence View Post
    Even so, that possibility doesn't do much to offset his lies, though.
    The issue I have with this is that the only reasons given to prove he has lied is that Cruelle seemed to say he could have submitted it anonymously, and the appeal came with a Graeham-like reason. It's possible the former is a misinterpretation of Cruelle's message, and the latter could be input by the Appeals Committee.

    Regarding the latter, I don't think scum would have bothered to give a reason for saving Valyrian unless they were trying to frame Graeham, which seems like a very weak attempt at framing (it's honestly a null attempt at framing short of Graeham claiming he didn't write the message). And I don't think town would have wrote that message either because most of the town were ok with seeing Valyrian lynched.

    In other words:

    Vote Graeham

    I have to assume Graeham is scum or Ret is. And it's just too hard to justify Ret being scum. If you are scum then seriously, grats.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm terrified of what I will see when Graeham flips. I am not looking forward to this lynch result. But I can't ignore the evidence against him.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I want to lynch Kurenai though.... Ugh.

  11. #1631
    Pssst.... wanna lynch all Kurenaiis?

  12. #1632
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    The issue I have with this is that the only reasons given to prove he has lied is that Cruelle seemed to say he could have submitted it anonymously, and the appeal came with a Graeham-like reason. It's possible the former is a misinterpretation of Cruelle's message, and the latter could be input by the Appeals Committee.

    Regarding the latter, I don't think scum would have bothered to give a reason for saving Valyrian unless they were trying to frame Graeham, which seems like a very weak attempt at framing (it's honestly a null attempt at framing short of Graeham claiming he didn't write the message). And I don't think town would have wrote that message either because most of the town were ok with seeing Valyrian lynched.

    In other words:

    Vote Graeham

    I have to assume Graeham is scum or Ret is. And it's just too hard to justify Ret being scum. If you are scum then seriously, grats.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm terrified of what I will see when Graeham flips. I am not looking forward to this lynch result. But I can't ignore the evidence against him.
    Silly question but if we can't decide between Graham and ret then why don't we look behind door number 3 at kurenai?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Catta View Post
    Pssst.... wanna lynch all Kurenaiis?
    God Damn ninja!

  13. #1633
    Fuck it. Save Graeham for tomorrow I guess. I think we learn something from Kurenai's lynch either way.

    Vote Kurenai

    - - - Updated - - -

    Won't it be fucking hilarious if Kurenai is town? >.>

  14. #1634
    Vote: Kurenai

    Please, let this torment end.

  15. #1635
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    Fuck it. Save Graeham for tomorrow I guess. I think we learn something from Kurenai's lynch either way.

    Vote Kurenai

    - - - Updated - - -

    Won't it be fucking hilarious if Kurenai is town? >.>
    Hilariously horrible >.>

  16. #1636
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    The issue I have with this is that the only reasons given to prove he has lied is that Cruelle seemed to say he could have submitted it anonymously, and the appeal came with a Graeham-like reason. It's possible the former is a misinterpretation of Cruelle's message, and the latter could be input by the Appeals Committee.

    Regarding the latter, I don't think scum would have bothered to give a reason for saving Valyrian unless they were trying to frame Graeham, which seems like a very weak attempt at framing (it's honestly a null attempt at framing short of Graeham claiming he didn't write the message). And I don't think town would have wrote that message either because most of the town were ok with seeing Valyrian lynched.
    All valid points.

    I'm terrified of what I will see when Graeham flips. I am not looking forward to this lynch result. But I can't ignore the evidence against him.
    Believe me. I am too. For me, it really comes down to either he lied to us, Cruelle lied to me (which I don't consider an option, at all), or someone somewhere seriously misread/misinterpreted something. From my perspective, the information I have is pretty straightforward and directly contradicts what Graeham stated, and his defense is that I'm a liar.

    If I'm wrong about this and he flips town, then you'll be lynching me (justifiably) soon after and that's pretty much a loss for town at that point. The pressures of political office.

    Won't it be fucking hilarious if Kurenai is town? >.>
    Honestly, there's so much ambiguity as to the actual setup that it's difficult to piece together scum-links. We're jumping off a cliff no matter who we go with.

    As I said earlier, I'll follow your lead today. May we not live to regret it.

    Vote: Kurenai

  17. #1637
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    I'll trust Ret and Dend's lead on this one.

    Vote: Kurenai

  18. #1638
    As an aside, scum have a habit of leaving me alive and subtly casting doubt on me throughout a game in order to exploit me as a convenient lynch at a critical stage. I would like to know if people are willing to acknowledge that, especially since I'm often called out for my 'weird play' only for it to turn out that I was telling the truth all along.

    Remember when I stuck my neck out to save Bomber when he sent me a PM and told me that he was the cop in Uggor's game and a lurker lynch was almost pushed on him? I'm not a particularly sneaky player. I'd say I'm pretty predictable in regards to my loyalty to whoever shares my alignment. I read Bomber as town in that game and so I bought his claim and stuck my neck out for him. I did the same thing in this game because I read Val as town and wanted to save him. I also thought I may very well have been able to soak up a night kill as well though obviously that didn't happen.

    Yes, I could have simply done it for the sake of scoring town points if I were scum but if I could launch an appeal in secret why wouldn't I simply do that and try to save someone who was actually scum?

    Vote: Kurenai

    @Dendrek: You'll also need to unvote for your vote on Kurenai to count, I believe.

  19. #1639
    Deleted
    Incoming night post, please stop posting

    - - - Updated - - -

    Breaking News on The Wooo:

    Barney Walters: Welcome to The- zzzz
    James Behar: Were hearing Colin Rice has resigned after claims from six different newspapers of being involved in a prostitution ring-
    Shaun Shepard: He never asked me to be one of his girls, Racist!
    Whippy Goldberg: No offense but he probably doesn't have any blind customers
    Shaun Shepard: I met a blind man once, he said I was irritating and asked me to please go away-
    Barney Walters: zzzz
    James Behar: Were also hearing that Cocaine was found after a raid on Colin Rice's home-
    Shaun Shepard: I tried to snort coke once but the ice cubes got stuck in my nose-
    Whippy Goldberg: Can we swap the coffee cups again?
    James Behar: No! *hushed voice* we discussed this earlier*smiles*-
    Barney Walters: zzzz


    Kurenai playing Colin Rice a Vanilla Townie has resigned.

    Kurenai: 6- Catta(1495)/ Celtic(1506)/ Dendrek(1633)/ Xanjori(1634)/ Reticence(1636)/ Kyrll(1637)/

    *I prefer players to unvote , but will still pick up votes if you have not unvoted, I think I said that earlier in the game also*


    Character: Colin Rice

    Role: VT

    Abilities: You only have your vote.


    Victory Condition:You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

    You have 18 hours to submit night actions, The game may restart early! you've been warned

    Last edited by mmoc36ded88e7f; 2016-04-24 at 09:57 PM.

  20. #1640

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