PVE set bonuses and Mythic+ dungeons

[nazrakin]

Raiders have said left and right they had nothing to do in WOD besides raiding, and now having an entire game that you have to start from scratch is a problem? Why?.
This is the only way of making it work, this way no one is forced to do both end games, but you can decide to do both out of will, and not out of need.

Mythic+ is a feature for everyone. The intended purpose is both as alternative for people who don't want to raid while also being complementary to raiders. The only way both halves of that is true is if you have the same gear.

[Deleted]

You dont have to do raiding to play them you will just end up in lower levels then raiders. And gues what they deserver to be in higher level becouse they put more effort into the game then you. Nobady resricted you from raiding. You can also obtain tier sets from raiding just like other players. If you dont want to or you dont have time then this is your problem not game.

This game have alredy enough stupid rule sets to begin with. Like restricted leg items and we dont need more made up rules just so you are unable to raid.

Yeah this vision of raiders deserve better, and if you do not have time or do not want to raid it is your problem, worked nice with WOD.

[Flurryfang]

Yes and that would be good, because you CHOSE raiding as your end game content, same way you should suck in PVP content, if that has never been your endgame.
And if i choose Mythic+ as my end game content i must suck with that gear in raiding, it is only fair.
If i want to do well in raiding, then i should do raiding for getting gear to be on par with you, it is not fair that i am competitive in your end game content without taking part on it.

You know what that effect, that is gonna have on most people, right? They are gonna be caught in a single piece of content, since they might have "grey" gear for another feature in the game. As a raider, i can still do pvp, just aswell as other pvpers. The pvp gear they have is just a bit better in item lvl then my own, but my gear is optimised, so i can still compete with them. If you remove a tier set bonus, that entire gear set might be completly off balance. Some tier sets moves around the stat values, which might make some people choose lower item lvl items, just to get a special stat.

I do understand, that you want people to feel safe in their own content and that choice shall lead the way when it comes to content, but each patch brings new adventures. Depending on each content patch, i might feel more drawned to Mythic+ then raiding, and the other way around. If i am blocked by that content, with a sign saying "You need a completly new set of gear to enjoy this content" then i will proberly not switch, which will make me a bit unhappy.

PS: If i am very good at pvping, i can still do top raiding in PvP gear, and vise versa. If i am very good at Raiding, but am gonna get very handicapped in Mythic+, its proberly gonna stop me and others from using the content, which blizzard have given us.

[Deleted]

The only way both halves of that is true is if you have the same gear.

Yeah you are right, this would also work.

[Raiju]

You know what that effect, that is gonna have on most people, right? They are gonna be caught in a single piece of content, since they might have "grey" gear for another feature in the game. As a raider, i can still do pvp, just aswell as other pvpers. The pvp gear they have is just a bit better in item lvl then my own, but my gear is optimised, so i can still compete with them. If you remove a tier set bonus, that entire gear set might be completly off balance. Some tier sets moves around the stat values, which might make some people choose lower item lvl items, just to get a special stat.

Lolwut

Your tier gear is never going to be equivalent to grey gear without the set bonus and your tier gear does not lose stats because of the set bonus.

[Deleted]

PS: If i am very good at pvping, i can still do top raiding in PvP gear, and vise versa. If i am very good at Raiding, but am gonna get very handicapped in Mythic+, its proberly gonna stop me and others from using the content, which blizzard have given us.

As I said i understand and you have a point, but then as NAZRAKIN said they must provide the same gear and problem solved.

[Flurryfang]

Raiders have said left and right they had nothing to do in WOD besides raiding, and now having an entire game that you have to start from scratch is a problem? Why?.
This is the only way of making it work, this way no one is forced to do both end games, but you can decide to do both out of will, and not out of need.

You always need a pull factor in your content. In most cases, that is an upgrade in gear. Some people don't need that and will proberly start from scratch, but most people proberly won't since they will feel weakened. People do this with alts, but that is because they are offered a completly new playstyle with a new class/spec. When you do it with the same character, it will just feel like max-lvl plus, and that does not cater to me and many people i know.

You are just gonna end up starting a recruitment war from either side, which is gonna end up with 1 side winning and 1 pile of content nearly going unused. Blizzard don't like content being unused and they will delete the content if they don't think enough people are using it.

[Deleted]

What if Mythic dungeons and Mythic raiding were on the same lockout ? Each week you would have to choose between raiding and doing dungeons. Thus raiders wouldnt feel forced to run dungeons and loot could be the same in both mode.

Would it solve the problem ?

(sorry if this as already been brought by someone else).

[Flurryfang]

Lolwut

Your tier gear is never going to be equivalent to grey gear without the set bonus and your tier gear does not lose stats because of the set bonus.

... Well, that was maybe overdoing it a bit, but i got good example here. Assa rogues with the archimonde trinket, have a completly different stat prio then a rogue without. Have proberly happend before with other classes, when it comes to tier set. If you put my rogue in an instance, where my trinket was disabled, my rogue would feel wierd to play and would perform quite bad compared to other classes way below my item lvl.

But as said before, tier sets often make or break the class. When you get your tier bonus, your playstyle change and it often changes for the better. Going back, just so i can do mythic+ dungeons, is not gonna be a good enough pullfactor.

[Raiju]

Yes, but turning htem off doesn't make you any weaker than anyone else- it brings you in line. that's the whole point of this thread.

[Flurryfang]

As I said i understand and you have a point, but then as NAZRAKIN said they must provide the same gear and problem solved.

Then you gonna meet another problem: What is easiest, and what will bring you the most gear? Most people will let the gear guide them and if Mythic+ is gonna provide you the most gear, people would rather farm that then raiding. Small cosmetic items, like mounts and titels, will not be enough to push people over to raiding. Sure people might raid when they are done with mythic, but then the content is gonna be completly outgeared and bring a subpar experience with it.

Its about threading a fine line here. We can agree, that Mythic+ should be rewarding for people, but not rewarding enough for people to skip raiding. But at the same time, raiding can't have so many exclusive rewards, that people wont use time in Mythic+. Making each exclusive is gonna mean wasted content for huge parts of the playerbase, which would make some design time completly wasted for Blizz.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, but turning htem off doesn't make you any weaker than anyone else- it brings you in line. that's the whole point of this thread.

It might bring you in line, but it also changes your playstyle. A 4-set character often plays very different then a 0-set character.

Of course, this does not stop me from going into Mythic+, but it will bring up an obstacle.

[nazrakin]

What if Mythic dungeons and Mythic raiding were on the same lockout ? Each week you would have to choose between raiding and doing dungeons. Thus raiders wouldnt feel forced to run dungeons and loot could be the same in both mode.

Would it solve the problem ?

(sorry if this as already been brought by someone else).

No a shared lockout would be awful. Raiders in guilds that force them to do content is just going to have to deal with it. Its not worth ruining the game for the rest of us.

[Wildmoon]

That is an opinion and is fairly arbitrary. It has commonly been accepted that PvPers having to do PvE to get their gear was a problem as was TBC raiders having to do Arena. Why would it be different for Mythic+?

Not really. This is PvE. You can use the gears from Mythic+ in raid and it's true the other way around. Dungeons,raids and questing belong in the same system. Blizzard wants to integrate this new system into the progression system. They don't want an isolated system. Disjointed progression system is bad.

[Raiju]

It might bring you in line, but it also changes your playstyle. A 4-set character often plays very different then a 0-set character.

Of course, this does not stop me from going into Mythic+, but it will bring up an obstacle.

Class trinkets are a one-off, but usually this only changes your rotation.

[Ashkiman]

People can't even accept doing something to get a little increased damage for something else and they keep asking for vanilla servers.

[Deleted]

Oh the mimimimi.... hahaha, like I said in the very beginning. People who cried for an alternate to raiding want to isolate themselves completely.

NO, SORRY. You've to do raids, world content and your mythic dungeons in order to maximize effiency. Oh, you cant or wont do it? Maybe its better for you to stop at Keystone level 3 then.

[Wildmoon]

This system is not supposed to separate players into 2 groups, 1 raider and 5 man player. It's to make dungeon content relevant.

[Deleted]

Raid gear, sets, relics deserve to, and should be kept in raids. All they need to do is disable to set bonus's like in wod's CM's..hey presto. Problem sorted and Mythic + can get their own loot.

[Deleted]

Yeah this vision of raiders deserve better, and if you do not have time or do not want to raid it is your problem, worked nice with WOD.

HAHA WoD content is compeltly absolote bcouse game cuttered everything to causal palyers. WoD is most casual friendly expanion to date thats why you dont have nothing to do. Becouse all the casual content you ahve don in like 1 week.

- - - Updated - - -

Raid gear, sets, relics deserve to, and should be kept in raids. All they need to do is disable to set bonus's like in wod's CM's..hey presto. Problem sorted and Mythic + can get their own loot.

Yeah lets punish raiders just becouse people like you cant stand thatž some people deserver better rewards becosue they puát effort into the game.

[snackfeat]

People can't even accept doing something to get a little increased damage for something else and they keep asking for vanilla servers.

I'm sure it's the same people asking for both things. No it's not, fuck off.