PVE set bonuses and Mythic+ dungeons

[Deleted]

Are the differences big enough that you feel you'd need alternative gear for a dps dk, a dps shaman, a dps warrior to run mythic? No? It's fine.

Bear in mind once again that mythic is 8% increase per affix. Until you are facing the highest affix you can possibly do your gear optimization is secondary.

And the alternatives - raiders with tier sets walking around with a 10%+ bonus often enough and near guaranteeing being higher level than mythic+ players as a result? Unacceptable really.

You picked the three dps classes I don't play so it maybe the case but for everyone else swapping out gear and enchants tends to be at least a 5% increase...

Mythic dungeons also tend to heavily favor certain specs depending on the keystone. You are not running heavy aoe or cleave with skittish for example.

I am not actually sure how tier sets are going to work they played with the idea of lfr having the same tier before scrapping it but I don't know why you expect raiders to not have some kind of gear advantage in pve...

[Adramelch]

Are the differences big enough that you feel you'd need alternative gear for a dps dk, a dps shaman, a dps warrior to run mythic? No? It's fine.

Bear in mind once again that mythic is 8% increase per affix. Until you are facing the highest affix you can possibly do your gear optimization is secondary.

And the alternatives - raiders with tier sets walking around with a 10%+ bonus often enough and near guaranteeing being higher level than mythic+ players as a result? Unacceptable really.

Raiders are guaranteed to be higher level than mythic+ players for the majority of the expansion anyway, due to a simple fact: more sources for high-end gear.

[Raiju]

Raiders are guaranteed to be higher level than mythic+ players for the majority of the expansion anyway, due to a simple fact: more sources for high-end gear.

That's not necessarily an issue. Mythic+ players should be able to get the best gear for mythic+ given time, though. I don't really care on what of the various ways to do that happens.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't be surprised if Mythic dungeons were capped on itemlevel at a certain point, and that set bonuses weren't active, just like the current CM model. Trinkets are still a thing, which is sometimes unfortunate because they matter A LOT. I.e in WoD, any agility user without the blademaster trinket is a gimp. This trinket alone easily does 50-75% of your damage, if not more on big aoe pulls, so not having this is a major burden on your group.

[Sting]

Well, it uses the challenge mode system right? That means tier set bonuses and possibly tertiary stats will be disabled.

[Raiju]

Well, it uses the challenge mode system right? That means tier set bonuses and possibly tertiary stats will be disabled.

Not really, since it doesn't adjust our gear as far as we know currently.

[Nayami]

Not a huge issue for me since I'll probably play both but I understand where you're coming from OP. The devs DID actually introduce CMs/Mythic+ for the purpose of providing players with a different form of progression other than raiding and I believe that those players who choose to solely do Mythic+ dungeons should be allowed to progress to the highest levels, just at a slower pace than raiders who have access to trinkets / tier sets and faster acquisition of gear overall.

If raiders can progress through Mythic+ faster than those who only play Mythic+ then I believe that's completely fine and it's fair towards those who spend a lot of their time raiding. However, if those players who only have access to Mythic+ gear can't progress past a certain level because of not having tier bonuses/trinkets then that's a design issue imo.

The best thing we can do is to provide the devs with feedback about this and just wait to see what they'll come up with.

[Sting]

Not really, since it doesn't adjust our gear as far as we know currently.

I don't have alpha access so I can't check unfortunately, but it would make sense to me. This thread has got me confused though, are mythic dungeons and challenge mode both gone with this new system taking over?

[Deleted]

Yup, let us fragment the game even more. Seems like a splendid idea.

I would like a game mode where I can get all the gear solo, since I don't enjoy playing together with other people. Why can't I progress the way I want? Fucking Blizzard catering to the snowflakes all the time!

[Deleted]

That's not necessarily an issue. Mythic+ players should be able to get the best gear for mythic+ given time, though. I don't really care on what of the various ways to do that happens.

People who farm nothing but world mobs can get full BiS barring maybe trinkets and tier in legion your point is kind of moot.

[Raiju]

I don't have alpha access so I can't check unfortunately, but it would make sense to me. This thread has got me confused though, are mythic dungeons and challenge mode both gone with this new system taking over?

Pretty much. Mythic+ is hte spiritual successor to Mythic, being a 'new tier of difficulty' above heroic dungeons. It scales up in difficulty via the keystone and additional abilities at Mythic+3/Mythic+6 respectively.

There will be leaderboards of some kind to capture that crowd who did CM's, but they are not really like CM's at all.

[nazrakin]

I wouldn't be surprised if Mythic dungeons were capped on itemlevel at a certain point, and that set bonuses weren't active, just like the current CM model. Trinkets are still a thing, which is sometimes unfortunate because they matter A LOT. I.e in WoD, any agility user without the blademaster trinket is a gimp. This trinket alone easily does 50-75% of your damage, if not more on big aoe pulls, so not having this is a major burden on your group.

They decided not to call them challenge modes because they are actually nothing like challenge modes. Players aren't scaled down and nothing is disabled because the progression of mythic+ is similar to the raid environment where better gear is intended to directly correlate with how far you can progress.

Yup, let us fragment the game even more. Seems like a splendid idea.

I would like a game mode where I can get all the gear solo, since I don't enjoy playing together with other people. Why can't I progress the way I want? Fucking Blizzard catering to the snowflakes all the time!

I know youre trying to be flippant, but if they could figure out a way to introduce challenging solo content that is worthy of raid quality rewards, I think that'd be great.

[shyguybman]

That seems to go against the entire design intention of mythic+ dungeons.

Separate progression path from raids but in order to compete you need to raid ;P

You don't HAVE to do raids to complete mythic+ dungeons but imo it's silly of you guys to think that people that raid won't have some advantage over people that don't. Even if it isn't tier bonuses but just having higher ilvl gear. Same thing with CM's in current game, it's not mandatory to raid but some of the trinkets in HFC sure help out a lot.

[Deleted]

I don't have alpha access so I can't check unfortunately, but it would make sense to me. This thread has got me confused though, are mythic dungeons and challenge mode both gone with this new system taking over?

So far challenge mode is gone. You have mythic that drops gear like normal and gives a keystone.

That keystone unlocks mythic +. How gear drops in there is still a bit up in the air. atm it works by when you fail a run you get loot and your keystone needs to be recharged with another run. This however makes the best way of gearing is to fail a dungeon beat it twice then fail again rinse and repeat.

I have a hunch they are going to change it so you just get to loot it once from a chest hall in your class hall at reset.

[rda]

Yup, let us fragment the game even more. Seems like a splendid idea.

I would like a game mode where I can get all the gear solo, since I don't enjoy playing together with other people. Why can't I progress the way I want? Fucking Blizzard catering to the snowflakes all the time!

You say it like it's a bad idea (solo gear progression on par with, say, raiding progression), but it isn't, it's a good one.

[nazrakin]

So far challenge mode is gone. You have mythic that drops gear like normal and gives a keystone.

That keystone unlocks mythic +. How gear drops in there is still a bit up in the air. atm it works by when you fail a run you get loot and your keystone needs to be recharged with another run. This however makes the best way of gearing is to fail a dungeon beat it twice then fail again rinse and repeat.

I have a hunch they are going to change it so you just get to loot it once from a chest hall in your class hall at reset.

Based on what theyve said there are two forms of mythic+ loot. You get a "lesser" reward at the end of the dungeon and then there is a "big reward" at the end of the week based on how far you progressed.

[Adramelch]

Pretty much. Mythic+ is hte spiritual successor to Mythic, being a 'new tier of difficulty' above heroic dungeons. It scales up in difficulty via the keystone and additional abilities at Mythic+3/Mythic+6 respectively.

There will be leaderboards of some kind to capture that crowd who did CM's, but they are not really like CM's at all.

1) Mythic dungeons still exist
2) I don't think there will be official leaderboards

[Deleted]

Based on what theyve said there are two forms of mythic+ loot. You get a "lesser" reward at the end of the dungeon and then there is a "big reward" at the end of the week based on how far you progressed.

Isn't how it works on alpha atm.

Granted it is alpha so maybe you just don't get loot from completing it yet.

- - - Updated - - -

1) Mythic dungeons still exist
2) I don't think there will be official leaderboards

I think there will be leader boards for people into that kind of thing. There is a point loot caps out on mythic plus I just don't expect there to be a reward from getting to the top% of the leader boards.

[Adramelch]

Isn't how it works on alpha atm.

Granted it is alpha so maybe you just don't get loot from completing it yet.

They've explicitly said (in the "intro" blue post they made about mythic+ on alpha) that there's a chest in the end of the dungeon, it just has nothing in it yet.

[Frapa]

I keep hearing raid trinkets beeing the strongest..yes most cases they are, but for an hunter example iron docks mythic dung drop the best trinket for hunters if you're lucky enough too get in hight enought ilvl