[Megathread] Dark Souls 3

[Poppincaps]

You are repeatedly given different goals in bloodborne "go out and hunt" is just to ensure you get a point of insight in some fashion at the start. Be it from one of 2 possible madmans knowledge around the sewers or by encountering the Cleric Beast as you gain 1 point upon witnessing anything releated to the great ones wether you beat it or not, thus waking the Doll. Then you get things like "go get a chalice to open the dungeons" or "go to the church to get the password" or "go to hemwick crossing and wait for a ride to cainhurst". In dark souls 3 you have one fetch quest. That is your story. Fetch these 4 maguffins, now go link the fire.

and thats before any actual comparison to the story of bergenwerth, the healing church, mensis and the pthumerians. Let alone the dlc. Or the environmental storytelling like the empty prams leading a trail from central Yarnham to the upper wards because the Choir are using newborns to lure down the Great Ones. Or actual cutscenes and character dialogue telling you about things like 'the old blood' and letters left around talking about when Old Yharnam was burned, to stop the nightmare you need to silence an infants cry and so on. You are not only told repeatedly what your objectives are but they dont just show up like Yhorm sitting on his ass in empty room. Things like the Nightmare of Mensis are teased right after Gasgoine with "the spider of mensis has hidden our master" and wouldnt you know it you meet a certain spider who knows the location of the Amygdala and gives you the tonsil stone with direct, specific locations of which building to go to and so on. Which is a little more well thought out than "here he is. Grab the storm ruler. GG, no RE". There are a lot of points where you can go in multiple directions in Bloodbourne, but the only way you dont know what you are doing is if you dont pay attention to things like why Alfred shows up to talk about the vilebloods when you can access the path to Iosefkas clinic, its a more obtuse example but compared to DS3's "every npc has 3 lines of dialogue and one secret one" its a lot less shallow and aimless than you seem to remember it being.


I'd very much recommend replaying Bloodbourne to compare and contrast. Its a pretty big difference and you sound like its been a while.

This is what I was talking about earlier with the rose tinted glasses thing. You're saying that Bloodborne has this pro but you don't recognize that DS3 has the same shit. You're entirely biased.

None of the things you listed are actually part of the main quest. They are things you find as you play the game. You are told to just hunt. That is the only direction they give you until you kill Micolash pretty much. "Go to hemwick crossing and wait for a ride to cainhurst." Okay I've got one for DS3 "Get the Path of the Dragon gesture and use it at the dragon statue." Or "Cut down the bridge in Catacombs of Carthus and go down to the Smouldering Lake." Those are secrets by the way. Not the main story.

All that stuff about Bergenwerth and the Healing Church is the lore. Not the story. The story is what you're doing. The lore is why you're doing it and what secrets the various characters and locations hold.

But okay, they do allude to you needing to find the spider. But what does that accomplish? Okay you're lead to the Nightmare of Mensis but what is the purpose of you being there? What is the main character of Bloodborne working towards? You don't know until you kill Mergo pretty much. They string you along with clues but you never know how close you are to being done.

The choice at the end is the perfect example. In Dark Souls 1 you meet Frampt and Kaathe and through speaking with them you can then decide how you want to end the game. The choice itself doesn't matter because the cycle will start anew, but you still feel educated enough to make the decision. In Bloodborne, Gehrman says that he can end your life or you have to fight him. Why would I let him kill me? What would that accomplish? It's sprung on you at the last moment and you have no real idea what you should do because there's no context for it.

The reason that Dark Souls works is because it gives you a good surface level idea of what the world and characters are about and then through research and speculation you can learn new things about them. Bloodborne is very vague and mysterious which results in me being wholly uninterested in the lore of it. The reason I find Ludwig so interesting is because you see his weapons and you hear how he was one of the first of the hunters. At the very least even if you don't read the descriptions, you see his name on these weapons made for humans but when you see him, he is a hideous monstrosity. That makes him interesting.

If he was just a hideous monstrosity with no overt backstory (like One Reborn for instance) then I wouldn't care about him. Subtlety is fine but too much just detracts from the experience.

[Tech614]

Yawn, poppin arguing semantics.

Dark Souls tells you to seek souls.

Bloodborne tells you to hunt.

If you want anymore then that you actually have to dig and talk to NPCs, read descriptions and what not.

The base story of both Dark Souls and Bloodborne is nonsensical, it's only the lore behind the characters and areas you discover that is good. Not sure why you're trying to argue this either way.

[Keltas]

Anyone else beyond sick of everyone in pvp wearing super heavy armor and just spamming rapiers?
It doesn't help that the rapier hitbox feels 7 ft longer than the rapier reaches. It's annoying AF getting stabbed from 10 feet away.

I respecced full caster and I'm destroying everyone else with soul stream (manually aim it where they're rolling to) it can 1 shot someone if it fully hits, but goddamn rapiers are so fast and feel like they hit just as hard as a greatsword while costing absolutely no stamina.

[Baconeggcheese]

Yeah, I much prefer Bloodborne. It's the weapons, environment, story, bosses, Lovecraft awesomeness, and so on. It legitimately for me takes the top spot. It's the souls type game that took up the most amount of my time.

There are some games that have the rose tinted effects. Games like BB, Super Metroid, Mega man just don't apply when going back for me.

I was debating getting ds3 for a bit but really wanted bloodborne, don't have a console though and they haven't and supposedly are unlikely to port it to pc anytime soon. QQ

That one definitely looked more enticing to me.

[Tech614]

I was debating getting ds3 for a bit but really wanted bloodborne, don't have a console though and they haven't and supposedly are unlikely to port it to pc anytime soon. QQ

That one definitely looked more enticing to me.

Unlikely is a bad word, flat out will never happen as long as playstation consoles are still a thing(which isn't changing any time in the next decade). Sony didn't just help fund the game, they fully funded it AND own the IP.

Bloodborne getting a PC port would be the equivalent of Zelda getting a PC port. It's a Sony IP, not a From Software IP.

[Djriff]

TBH i actually prefer BB to DS3. Just feels smoother overall :/

Zelda on PC? Don't tease me.

[Kantalope]

Anyone else beyond sick of everyone in pvp wearing super heavy armor and just spamming rapiers?
It doesn't help that the rapier hitbox feels 7 ft longer than the rapier reaches. It's annoying AF getting stabbed from 10 feet away.

I respecced full caster and I'm destroying everyone else with soul stream (manually aim it where they're rolling to) it can 1 shot someone if it fully hits, but goddamn rapiers are so fast and feel like they hit just as hard as a greatsword while costing absolutely no stamina.

I've just finished farming all the covenant items. The PvP is terrible and I'll never touch it again. Everyone has 0 poise, armor doesn't matter. 1-shot riposte. Rapiers are broken, and the people that use them act like r1 is the only button on their controller.

[Jakexe]

Does everyone else has really bad lag during pvp? Or is it just me?

Makes pvp almost impossible.

[Keltas]

I've just finished farming all the covenant items. The PvP is terrible and I'll never touch it again. Everyone has 0 poise, armor doesn't matter. 1-shot riposte. Rapiers are broken, and the people that use them act like r1 is the only button on their controller.

Unfortunately all seems to be true. I really don't wanna say I kinda wanna go back to ds2 pvp, but I kinda do. Don't forget all the scumbags who don't bow (or do anything) and abuse bugs (namely, the no animation bug) and just rush you with rapiers. I haven't had this many douches that follow no rules in ds1/2, although maybe that is because I didn't play them when they were new. It's been like 1/3 duels though that I get some scumbag that's bug abusing and rushing.

Does everyone else has really bad lag during pvp? Or is it just me?

Makes pvp almost impossible.

I have definitely been lagging in what feels like only pvp. It isn't there whatsoever when I am in co-op, but in pvp I get hit by attacks when they are nowhere near me visually. I also see things hit me or opponents, make the hitting noise and animations, but nobody takes any damage or anything. Sometimes people end up places they shouldn't be either.

[WarpedAcorn]

I finished everything in the game this weekend. The last boss on my checklist was Nameless King. I had an incredibly hard time with him and was getting really frustrated since he would basically kill me if he caught me in any of his combo's. I had a hard time predicting his combo's and they seemed to be fairly random. But then I switched to a bow for Phase 2 and beat it first attempt (with the bow that is). So my advice to people struggling with Nameless King...use a bow (or magic I guess). =)


Overall though, I have to say that the quests in DS3 are the most obscure of any of the Soulsborne series. The first playthrough I did blind and missed nearly all of them. The second playthrough I actually read guides on the NPC questlines and the majority of them are so specific that only a very small group of people might ever figure them out, especially the ones that involve backtracking.

[infinitemeridian]

This is what I was talking about earlier with the rose tinted glasses thing. You're saying that Bloodborne has this pro but you don't recognize that DS3 has the same shit. You're entirely biased.

None of the things you listed are actually part of the main quest. They are things you find as you play the game. You are told to just hunt. That is the only direction they give you until you kill Micolash pretty much. "Go to hemwick crossing and wait for a ride to cainhurst." Okay I've got one for DS3 "Get the Path of the Dragon gesture and use it at the dragon statue." Or "Cut down the bridge in Catacombs of Carthus and go down to the Smouldering Lake." Those are secrets by the way. Not the main story.

All that stuff about Bergenwerth and the Healing Church is the lore. Not the story. The story is what you're doing. The lore is why you're doing it and what secrets the various characters and locations hold.

But okay, they do allude to you needing to find the spider. But what does that accomplish? Okay you're lead to the Nightmare of Mensis but what is the purpose of you being there? What is the main character of Bloodborne working towards? You don't know until you kill Mergo pretty much. They string you along with clues but you never know how close you are to being done.

The choice at the end is the perfect example. In Dark Souls 1 you meet Frampt and Kaathe and through speaking with them you can then decide how you want to end the game. The choice itself doesn't matter because the cycle will start anew, but you still feel educated enough to make the decision. In Bloodborne, Gehrman says that he can end your life or you have to fight him. Why would I let him kill me? What would that accomplish? It's sprung on you at the last moment and you have no real idea what you should do because there's no context for it.

The reason that Dark Souls works is because it gives you a good surface level idea of what the world and characters are about and then through research and speculation you can learn new things about them. Bloodborne is very vague and mysterious which results in me being wholly uninterested in the lore of it. The reason I find Ludwig so interesting is because you see his weapons and you hear how he was one of the first of the hunters. At the very least even if you don't read the descriptions, you see his name on these weapons made for humans but when you see him, he is a hideous monstrosity. That makes him interesting.

If he was just a hideous monstrosity with no overt backstory (like One Reborn for instance) then I wouldn't care about him. Subtlety is fine but too much just detracts from the experience.

One reborn has plenty of backstory. He's a failed great one.

I think the crux of the matter is that in Dark Souls, the game centers around you being some sort of chosen one, whereas Bloodborne has you as just a random hunter. You're nothing special. You're just there. The "story" in Bloodborne is less of a story as you just experiencing shit that is happening. In Dark Souls, the story revolves around you. In Bloodborne, the story revolves around events that you really have no control over, you just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, like reaching Yahargul Village when they're summoning the One Reborn, happening upon Yharnam during the night of the Hunt, etc.

Bloodborne does have less of a story than Dark Souls, that's true. It's just that, to me, the lore is more interesting than story in all of these games and BB has the most intricate/interesting lore (to me).

[Berethos08]

Because when you finish the game and look back some of it is so fan servicey its just awful. Like in Lothric castle there is not only a shrine to Solaire while Gwynnevere is long forgotten but they even have Solaires sword in a chest in a nearby room.

Looks like you missed the references that indicate how one of Gwynevere's children is the basis upon which the angel style worship done in Lothric started, so while there may not be any overt references her legacy has had a far greater impact than a broken statue and an old sword. Also slightly possible the Queen was Gwynevere but the implications pointing to that are pretty slim and heavily based on interpretation of the meaning of a couple sentences.

The amount of references to previous games that don't serve the current story in some fashion, add context to previous understanding, or both, is pretty limited. It's only fan service if it doesn't fulfill either of those criteria.

[infinitemeridian]

Also, in terms of replayability, I find that BB has plenty of, if not more, than Dark Souls.

The builds are limited yes, but they all play so differently, and since the weapons are so different, it's a fresh experience every time. This paired with the beginning section of the game being higher quality to me than Dark Souls 3 gives it a boost. I've got about 5 different characters in Bloodborne, each using different weapons/stats.

[Poppincaps]

This is the last time I'm gonna bitch about PVP in this thread because after I finish off the Mound Makers I'm done with this shit. The game is simply too anti-invader. I realized why I kept getting one shot and it's because they reduce your health as an Invader. If the host decides to summon, you will always be outnumbered. The rapier and straight swords are so fucking prevalent it's fucking ridiculous. It's rare that I find someone using something else. Plus the host has far more Estus so he can outheal you. And on top of all of that shit, the host can take away your one advantage with a Seed of a Giant Tree.

When I farmed the Dragon Remnant covenant in DS2 recently I went 30-4. I just invaded 10 times and won 4. Only two of those was me getting outplayed (by a straight sword user and a one shot riposte). 2 used a Seed of a Giant Tree on me. And the other 2 were a 3v1 and 4v1.

[Rubim]

I finished everything in the game this weekend. The last boss on my checklist was Nameless King. I had an incredibly hard time with him and was getting really frustrated since he would basically kill me if he caught me in any of his combo's. I had a hard time predicting his combo's and they seemed to be fairly random. But then I switched to a bow for Phase 2 and beat it first attempt (with the bow that is). So my advice to people struggling with Nameless King...use a bow (or magic I guess). =)


Overall though, I have to say that the quests in DS3 are the most obscure of any of the Soulsborne series. The first playthrough I did blind and missed nearly all of them. The second playthrough I actually read guides on the NPC questlines and the majority of them are so specific that only a very small group of people might ever figure them out, especially the ones that involve backtracking.

I used a bow on the first phase, for the second i just keep rolling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D67N9tcibk4

There's a ring that increases the iFrames while rolling, i used that.

[dope_danny]

Looks like you missed the references that indicate how one of Gwynevere's children is the basis upon which the angel style worship done in Lothric started, so while there may not be any overt references her legacy has had a far greater impact than a broken statue and an old sword. Also slightly possible the Queen was Gwynevere but the implications pointing to that are pretty slim and heavily based on interpretation of the meaning of a couple sentences.

The amount of references to previous games that don't serve the current story in some fashion, add context to previous understanding, or both, is pretty limited. It's only fan service if it doesn't fulfill either of those criteria.

In terms of fan service it feels particularly cheap because during DS1's development miyazaki famously had them scrap the undead dragon and go back to the drawing board because the focus for DS1 "wasnt gross or cheap emotional responses but a sad melancholy to impress that things had been lost that would never be revived again" and he felt a maggoty dragon didnt reflect this, which seems to be a complete 180 in DS3 where things like Solaires sword not only survived multiple cycles but its preserved reverentially along with his statue in the center of Lothric Castle.

Was that put there because Solaire was an important character to the world and needed to be brought back in some fashion? or was it put there because of Sunny D memes on the internet?

its very hard to feel immersed with a series thats meant to be about trying to salvage something from a world mostly forgotten and without hope of repair in favour of starting something new if only you can link the fire and finding the actual clothes worn by people multiple civilisations old. Not gods, not demons. A man who is literally impressed to be powerless and so is his gear to the point in the game he appeared in his gear was an actual gag about how he just painted a sun on it and it means nothing because hes the well meaning village idiot of the games. Its not world building, its barely an important reference, its one of the more glaring examples of immersion destroying fan service for fan services sake. Which is fine now and again, but when the items you find are more DS1/2 recycles than new stuff its a constant reminder of 'HEY THIS IS A SEQUEL TO THAT GAME YOU LIKE, MEMES RIGHT? GREAT." and this is the grand finale?

Like i said before the gameplays great bar a wonky kick but the balance is skewed to badly in favour of obtuse references based more often on fan popularity than not over building this world we are exploring and thats just not good enough for the supposed grand finale.

If it is.

[Baconeggcheese]

This is the last time I'm gonna bitch about PVP in this thread because after I finish off the Mound Makers I'm done with this shit. The game is simply too anti-invader. I realized why I kept getting one shot and it's because they reduce your health as an Invader. If the host decides to summon, you will always be outnumbered. The rapier and straight swords are so fucking prevalent it's fucking ridiculous. It's rare that I find someone using something else. Plus the host has far more Estus so he can outheal you. And on top of all of that shit, the host can take away your one advantage with a Seed of a Giant Tree.

When I farmed the Dragon Remnant covenant in DS2 recently I went 30-4. I just invaded 10 times and won 4. Only two of those was me getting outplayed (by a straight sword user and a one shot riposte). 2 used a Seed of a Giant Tree on me. And the other 2 were a 3v1 and 4v1.

You should invade me after a boss, cause I'm just tryin to play the game and people tryin'a ruin my life. I just let the guy kill me because I hit him once or twice and he took like -5 damage and I really didn't feel like spending 20 minutes fighting the dude. Especially since he at least appeared to be farther along in the game than I was which is cool.

I'm brand spankin' new to this whole series and I know people get all in knots around this but I'm not crazy bout how the pvp is handled in this game. Just minding my own business after the first boss and someone jumps me when I have 0 interest in fighting them right now because I'm just trying to do my first run through of the game and figure things out. Game seems like its set up for the kind of person who likes open world pvp in wow, just randomly ganking people minding their own business and it being an unbalanced mess, with a few people who figure out how to make it more competitive themselves.

The pvp videos tend to have people fighting in that same half circle area so I thought it was something you que into and fight there or something that'd make sense, but I guess people just agree to meet up there or that's a common unspoken spot or something. It's kinda weak, wish the system was more organized / fair / competitive from the get go.

[Berethos08]

I think your distaste of the Solaire meme is getting in the way of recognizing what is a continuation of an early story, character, or theme, and what has been thrown in "because internet likes memes."

I do plan on coming back with plenty of examples, but I'm typing this from my phone, which isn't conducive to lengthy posts, so it will be a bit.

[Poppincaps]

Also, in terms of replayability, I find that BB has plenty of, if not more, than Dark Souls.

The builds are limited yes, but they all play so differently, and since the weapons are so different, it's a fresh experience every time. This paired with the beginning section of the game being higher quality to me than Dark Souls 3 gives it a boost. I've got about 5 different characters in Bloodborne, each using different weapons/stats.

I would agree if there was respeccing. Arcane builds are shit without Moonlight Greatsword or Kos Parasite which are both super late game. I'd really like to do a Moonlight Greatsword build but I'd have to reroll and play through most of the game using weapons I don't want to use just to get the weapon I want. If I want to do a build around the Firelink Greatsword, I can at least use weapons that are similar to it in the meantime. In DS3 when I get the weapon I want to use I get excited because it feels like I got an upgrade. But in Bloodborne I just think, "Ugh finally."

With MLGS I could use Ludwig's Holy Blade as a substitute but there is no such thing for Kos Parasite. If I wanna do a build around the Burial Blade but I did my first playthrough as a STR playthrough then I am shit outta luck. Gotta either reroll a skill build and play through the game and then use the Burial Blade in NG+ or playthrough NG+ as STR until I get enough Skill to use the Burial Blade decently.

If Bloodborne had respeccing I could forgive many of it's problems but as it stands I can't bring myself to replay it like I have the other games because the barrier to start some of the builds is too high and you generally can't use something similar in the mean time.

- - - Updated - - -

You should invade me after a boss, cause I'm just tryin to play the game and people tryin'a ruin my life. I just let the guy kill me because I hit him once or twice and he took like -5 damage and I really didn't feel like spending 20 minutes fighting the dude. Especially since he at least appeared to be farther along in the game than I was which is cool.

I'm brand spankin' new to this whole series and I know people get all in knots around this but I'm not crazy bout how the pvp is handled in this game. Just minding my own business after the first boss and someone jumps me when I have 0 interest in fighting them right now because I'm just trying to do my first run through of the game and figure things out. Game seems like its set up for the kind of person who likes open world pvp in wow, just randomly ganking people minding their own business and it being an unbalanced mess, with a few people who figure out how to make it more competitive themselves.

The pvp videos tend to have people fighting in that same half circle area so I thought it was something you que into and fight there or something that'd make sense, but I guess people just agree to meet up there or that's a common unspoken spot or something. It's kinda weak, wish the system was more organized / fair / competitive from the get go.

You can't be invaded if you're unembered or you could go offline. It's not forced on you. I went unembered in Irithyll becuase I kept getting chain invaded by Aldrich Faithfuls. The area was a bit harder as a result but I could've gone offline as well.

[Crusch]

Ye I don't see the appeal in invading either. Most invaders seem to be pathetic cowards too, invading 1v2, hiding behind monsters etc.

Yesterday after I finished my completely solo run I started a co-op one with 2 friends which makes the game piss easy but finally makes invading more fair for the host, we keep getting invaded all the time and destroy them easily, basically we are just getting free souls and materials from whichever covenant they belonged to. So we got our revenge and then some. Feels good man.