Legion: Elemental Specific

[Kralljin]

It is pretty sad that pures are always lightyears ahead of hybrids (or really just elemental) but.. what to do.

Pure classes simply have the advantage of choosing between 3 specs.

Demo got nerfed? No problem, Affli got buffed and Destro is still good.

Arcane sucks? There's still fire & Frost.

Then there's also the advantage that they can just switch specs based on a fight, Affli is better than Destro on some fights and vice versa.

If Elemental is bad, then one specs sucks, if rogues are bad then they managed to fuck up 3 specs.

[pixelated senpai]

Pure classes simply have the advantage of choosing between 3 specs.

Demo got nerfed? No problem, Affli got buffed and Destro is still good.

Arcane sucks? There's still fire & Frost.

Then there's also the advantage that they can just switch specs based on a fight, Affli is better than Destro on some fights and vice versa.

If Elemental is bad, then one specs sucks, if rogues are bad then they managed to fuck up 3 specs.

yup, this is why i normally just play a hybrid dps as a alt and the fact that most serious progression guilds take 1 of each class hybrid because they bring some sort of niche or utility to a fight.

[Tyze]

yup, this is why i normally just play a hybrid dps as a alt and the fact that most serious progression guilds take 1 of each class hybrid because they bring some sort of niche or utility to a fight.

Me too honestly, I don't want to switch to a spec that's boring just because its a bit better.
I rather stick with the struggle tbh haha. Being hybrid is like a ticket to "It's ok, it's the only spec he plays"

[shammypie]

yup, this is why i normally just play a hybrid dps as a alt and the fact that most serious progression guilds take 1 of each class hybrid because they bring some sort of niche or utility to a fight.

well that and the natural gear distributions. One of those funny things about being the only resto shaman in my old guild was that ele never had the dps to compete with pures and I got decked out in gear very quickly. However we still usually had 1 on the roster that was there more because of utility and gear dump. He like me had ok numbers in the raid simply because he geared faster.

[gambit998]

Ye but there is a problem when a pvp geared Arcane mage (My PVP geared mage) has less item level and uses what 5 buttons and can do almost 4X my shamans DPS.....this is the problem, our healing was nerfed to compensate but our damage was never pushed up. Sad really

[Deleted]

Looks like Elemental arrived at the short end of new changes again.

[dark666105]

As far as it's current state how are the specs single target, multitarget, AoE, target switching and movement impact reduction tools? Trying to get a gauge of how the ranged specs are in each aspect at this point in the alpha so I can get back to my raid leader about which ones I would prefer.

[Deleted]

Single target dmg is heavily based on tuning (which is on going, since they apparently stopped working on Ele besides some numbers every other alpha patch). Target switching got somewhat easier, due to Shocks not having a CD. LvB still requires FS on the target, but no more Elemental Fusion in its current form to worry about. We also lost Unleash Elements.

AoE is also based on tuning. But this part is still very loaded with so many different abilities and artifact trait interactions that I doubt you'll ever utilize all of them.

Movement is in a very problematic state, IMO. They take away SWG, Gust of Wind and Wind Rush Totem (the choice for a raiding Elemental) are on the same talent tier. You'll be basically fucked if numbers prefer Asc over Icefury.

[Cebel]

Pure classes simply have the advantage of choosing between 3 specs.

Demo got nerfed? No problem, Affli got buffed and Destro is still good.

Arcane sucks? There's still fire & Frost.

Then there's also the advantage that they can just switch specs based on a fight, Affli is better than Destro on some fights and vice versa.

If Elemental is bad, then one specs sucks, if rogues are bad then they managed to fuck up 3 specs.

Too be fair, as far as raiding goes the simple idea of spec swapping, at least mid-tier, is gone for pure dps. You cant move a relic from 1 artifact to the other, thus essentially forcing the player to either play the spec they put the relic in, or to have substantially weaker weapons and use the spec that fits the fight. I personally HATE this idea, and would prefer to see relics affect all of a players artifacts so that good players who know their class in and out and swap depending on the fight to fit a niche and help their raid. Not to mention i find it fun playing other specs especially now that many specs play completely differently than before.

On the other hand this is a big bonus in the hybrid dps department, as our main spec weapon is the only one we're likely to ever use, as most ele's don't swap to enhance etc, depending on the fight.

[Kralljin]

Too be fair, as far as raiding goes the simple idea of spec swapping, at least mid-tier, is gone for pure dps. You cant move a relic from 1 artifact to the other, thus essentially forcing the player to either play the spec they put the relic in, or to have substantially weaker weapons and use the spec that fits the fight. I personally HATE this idea, and would prefer to see relics affect all of a players artifacts so that good players who know their class in and out and swap depending on the fight to fit a niche and help their raid. Not to mention i find it fun playing other specs especially now that many specs play completely differently than before.

Rather makes the notorious hotfix nerfs / buffs on Mythic release even more devilish.

[Cebel]

Rather makes the notorious hotfix nerfs / buffs on Mythic release even more devilish.

Yep. I feel like the devs are adding "accessibility" to the wrong things. AKA LFR, instead of allowing players to take advantage of their class.

[garonne]

Single target dmg is heavily based on tuning (which is on going, since they apparently stopped working on Ele besides some numbers every other alpha patch). Target switching got somewhat easier, due to Shocks not having a CD. LvB still requires FS on the target, but no more Elemental Fusion in its current form to worry about. We also lost Unleash Elements.

AoE is also based on tuning. But this part is still very loaded with so many different abilities and artifact trait interactions that I doubt you'll ever utilize all of them.

Movement is in a very problematic state, IMO. They take away SWG, Gust of Wind and Wind Rush Totem (the choice for a raiding Elemental) are on the same talent tier. You'll be basically fucked if numbers prefer Asc over Icefury.

with the bolded part, if you would do more dps with icefury than Ascendance in a movement fight then you aren't fucked. neither of the talents are mandatory, you pick whichever serves the purpose the best. if you take ascendance no matter the situation then icefury is a wasted talent and is bad design.

[Ize]

with the bolded part, if you would do more dps with icefury than Ascendance in a movement fight then you aren't fucked. neither of the talents are mandatory, you pick whichever serves the purpose the best. if you take ascendance no matter the situation then icefury is a wasted talent and is bad design.

I thought the whole design philosophy on talents was that should all be about equal and u should have a choice. Having talents in the same tier that specialise in different things, like burst or AE or movement, defeats the point of having a choice as u are making a particular talent mandatory based on that fight instead.
E.g T6 talents currently are: Burst - Ascendance; Movement- Icefury; AoE - Liquid Magma Totem. If a fight is dependent on one of those factors than u currently have no 'choice' what to pick in the tier.

[Deleted]

I thought the whole design philosophy on talents was that should all be about equal and u should have a choice. Having talents in the same tier that specialise in different things, like burst or AE or movement, defeats the point of having a choice as u are making a particular talent mandatory based on that fight instead.
E.g T6 talents currently are: Burst - Ascendance; Movement- Icefury; AoE - Liquid Magma Totem. If a fight is dependent on one of those factors than u currently have no 'choice' what to pick in the tier.

People tend to forget if they spew their misinformation around.

[Riistov]

Ye but there is a problem when a pvp geared Arcane mage (My PVP geared mage) has less item level and uses what 5 buttons and can do almost 4X my shamans DPS.....this is the problem, our healing was nerfed to compensate but our damage was never pushed up. Sad really

It would really depend how much of an ilvl difference there is. Ele has it's problems for sure, but if you're doing that much more damage on a poorly geared arcane mage (especially since Arcane is not that strong without the ring, tier bonus, and trinkets) I would think that you should look at what talents/gear you're using. This sounds a lot more like a skill issue to me.

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like Elemental arrived at the short end of new changes again.

I don't want to believe that, but I can't help but feeling that you're right.

[Prankish]

I thought the whole design philosophy on talents was that should all be about equal and u should have a choice. Having talents in the same tier that specialize in different things, like burst or AE or movement, defeats the point of having a choice as u are making a particular talent mandatory based on that fight instead.
E.g T6 talents currently are: Burst - Ascendance; Movement- Icefury; AoE - Liquid Magma Totem. If a fight is dependent on one of those factors than u currently have no 'choice' what to pick in the tier.

What is gods name are you proposing with this comment? Are you seriously complaining that we got talents that are better in specific situations? Situations that just so happen to be weaknesses for the class? I'm reading your comment as: "I miss having 3 talents that all filled the same situational usefulness". Did you really enjoy the EF - PE - EB tree? All were essentially ST dmg boosts and PE ended up winning out ALL DAMN XPAC because it was the least annoying of the three.

Currently I switch 1 talent row back and forth between two talents. Do you know why that is? Its because our shitty tree is designed so that each row fills a similar function and, considering the inevitability of one talent being better than the other, only one will ever be picked. The only even mildly interesting row is the EM and EotE row. In legion every row will have some interesting choices that will change our play style just slightly to try and fill in spec holes and you're upset?

Im sorry but in what expansion was there ever a spec that didn't have a best talent configuration for a fight? Here's a hint: Never. In legion those best in fight talents will hopefully be wildly varying and cause Elemental so hold their own in any fight. Do you know why Elemental is such a shit spec right now? It's because our talents can never compete with the versatility that pures have between their 3 specs and 3 talent trees. They are finally adding huge variance in talent niches to try and simulate versatility and we complain. Bravo Elemental this is why we can't have nice things. We complain when we have one of the more fleshed out talent trees in legion.

[Deleted]

What is gods name are you proposing with this comment? Are you seriously complaining that we got talents that are better in specific situations? Situations that just so happen to be weaknesses for the class? I'm reading your comment as: "I miss having 3 talents that all filled the same situational usefulness". Did you really enjoy the EF - PE - EB tree? All were essentially ST dmg boosts and PE ended up winning out ALL DAMN XPAC because it was the least annoying of the three.

Currently I switch 1 talent row back and forth between two talents. Do you know why that is? Its because our shitty tree is designed so that each row fills a similar function and, considering the inevitability of one talent being better than the other, only one will ever be picked. The only even mildly interesting row is the EM and EotE row. In legion every row will have some interesting choices that will change our play style just slightly to try and fill in spec holes and you're upset?

Im sorry but in what expansion was there ever a spec that didn't have a best talent configuration for a fight? Here's a hint: Never. In legion those best in fight talents will hopefully be wildly varying and cause Elemental so hold their own in any fight. Do you know why Elemental is such a shit spec right now? It's because our talents can never compete with the versatility that pures have between their 3 specs and 3 talent trees. They are finally adding huge variance in talent niches to try and simulate versatility and we complain. Bravo Elemental this is why we can't have nice things. We complain when we have one of the more fleshed out talent trees in legion.

Do you even have Alpha? Just a honest question. Especially lol at the bolded part.

[garonne]

I thought the whole design philosophy on talents was that should all be about equal and u should have a choice. Having talents in the same tier that specialise in different things, like burst or AE or movement, defeats the point of having a choice as u are making a particular talent mandatory based on that fight instead.
E.g T6 talents currently are: Burst - Ascendance; Movement- Icefury; AoE - Liquid Magma Totem. If a fight is dependent on one of those factors than u currently have no 'choice' what to pick in the tier.

there is no "choice", for any class. what they said and what they gave to the classes aren't the same. however if you dont like the lack of "choice" thats a different argument.

[Prankish]

Do you even have Alpha? Just a honest question.

Yes I do. I know not everything is tuned correctly but that shouldn't cause me to think all the talents are shit. With proper tuning the talents have a good shot at properly complementing our default toolset.

What if I didnt have alpha? Is that even remotely important to the conversation? Any idiot can look at the talents and see that our versatility cant go anywhere but up. All the reasonable Shamans on the alpha forums agree as well. Sure some talents like magnitude and Liquid magma I'm not a fan of but I cant expect to like EVERY damn talent.

Especially lol at the bolded part.

Yeah your right Shamans have it the worst in regards to talents. They haven't thought about us at all. No other classes are complaining about their shitty talents. Hurrr hurrr durrr My class is the worst, the world is ending. /s

[MrLemmi]

Yes I do. I know not everything is tuned correctly but that shouldn't cause me to think all the talents are shit. With proper tuning the talents have a good shot at properly complementing our default toolset.

What if I didnt have alpha? Is that even remotely important to the conversation? Any idiot can look at the talents and see that our versatility cant go anywhere but up. All the reasonable Shamans on the alpha forums agree as well. Sure some talents like magnitude and Liquid magma I'm not a fan of but I cant expect to like EVERY damn talent.



Yeah your right Shamans have it the worst in regards to talents. They haven't thought about us at all. No other classes are complaining about their shitty talents. Hurrr hurrr durrr My class is the worst, the world is ending. /s

So you are happy because you have some aoe or cd in the talent tree that could simply be tuned baseline so you dont need them and give place to taylor your rotation however you wanted, more simple or complex or add more fantasy in some way like giving domain over ice with icefury and other hundreds of possibilities, but no, you prefer a dumb magma totem because you think you lack aoe that could be simply tuned? Alright, we get you.

Ps: aoe talents should be in one row and modify the way you aoe.