Tempostorm starts Meta Snapshot for Heroes

[Lesane]

It looks good, easy to navigate. But useless.

These sort of meta snapshots only cause problems because they don't take the different leagues into account. What effectively happens is that people look at the list, see who is placed on top and then try to secure those supposed "top tier" heroes without a second thought. Not thinking about composition, not even thinking about if they are even good with the hero.

The people who do that wouldn't be any better off if there wasn't a tier list. This tier list obviously requires you to use your brain, and it's useful with that taken into account.

[Amerrol]

The Tyrande build is obviously old as fuck. Pretty much everyone goes for owl+BM build now.

Yeah, except the owl build is inferior to the older hybrid build. the older one has over a 5% higher win rate then the owl build, granted the sample sizes for both are quite small. Just because sheep like to follow Pallytime's builds doesn't actually make them better.

[Lesane]

Yeah, except the owl build is inferior to the older hybrid build. the older one has over a 5% higher win rate then the owl build, granted the sample sizes for both are quite small. Just because sheep like to follow Pallytime's builds doesn't actually make them better.

Pallytime's build? The pros run that build almost exclusively, very rarely do they deviate from it.

[Belial-sama]

The EU summer qualifiers this weekend had a lot of Tyrande picks and almost all of them had owl build. Lower winrate in this case is down to people not knowing how to use it/when it should be used most likely.

[RH92]

The EU summer qualifiers this weekend had a lot of Tyrande picks and almost all of them had owl build. Lower winrate in this case is down to people not knowing how to use it/when it should be used most likely.

To be honest, they should scrap this "best build evaaaar" kind of nonsense.

None build is the best, you have talents you pick because it suits your own playstyle and then you have have talents you tailor to a situation.

I mean, everybody is saying AA Kael is the best now. Now in EU Summer Championship, Mene was playing Flamestrike build with few variations to such extent opponents were respect banning Kael from him. Does it mean Flamestrike is the shit right now?

[Belial-sama]

To be honest, they should scrap this "best build evaaaar" kind of nonsense.

None build is the best, you have talents you pick because it suits your own playstyle and then you have have talents you tailor to a situation.

I mean, everybody is saying AA Kael is the best now. Now in EU Summer Championship, Mene was playing Flamestrike build with few variations to such extent opponents were respect banning Kael from him. Does it mean Flamestrike is the shit right now?

Maybe I should've clarified a bit more; I certainly don't think there's only ever 1 viable build (unless we're talking some fringe cases like old Illidan), knowing which builds are viable, how to use them and WHEN they can shine is why winrates aren't be-all-end-all. Tyrande in specific has nice diversity and is not the easiest to pull off, which is why people shouldn't use winrates as an argument on viability.

[RH92]

Maybe I should've clarified a bit more; I certainly don't think there's only ever 1 viable build (unless we're talking some fringe cases like old Illidan), knowing which builds are viable, how to use them and WHEN they can shine is why winrates aren't be-all-end-all. Tyrande in specific has nice diversity and is not the easiest to pull off, which is why people shouldn't use winrates as an argument on viability.

No, I didn't say you think there is one build. My point is, the talk about best build is pointless because it depend on variables.

Actually, Pro matches are often misleading. Pro players pick Heroes to fulfill a very specific task on a chosen map. The build chosen is tailored to player playstyle, map, role and; your and enemy team compositions. If you are not paying attention to all those variables you are most likely going to end in a "best build" trap.

If we still don't understand each other, I was basically saying I agree with your last sentence in your previous post.

[Belial-sama]

No, I didn't say you think there is one build. My point is, the talk about best build is pointless because it depend on variables.

Actually, Pro matches are often misleading. Pro players pick Heroes to fulfill a very specific task on a chosen map. The build chosen is tailored to player playstyle, map, role and; your and enemy team compositions. If you are not paying attention to all those variables you are most likely going to end in a "best build" trap.

If we still don't understand each other, I was basically saying I agree with your last sentence in your previous post.

Ah, gotcha, I read your first reply the wrong way 0

[Amerrol]

Actually, Pro matches are often misleading. Pro players pick Heroes to fulfill a very specific task on a chosen map. The build chosen is tailored to player playstyle, map, role and; your and enemy team compositions. If you are not paying attention to all those variables you are most likely going to end in a "best build" trap.

Basically this. Looking at pro talents is generally a pretty bad idea for your average HL game (and even worse for QM). On the other hand looking at builds by winrate for your specific game type is much more useful, but even then you should just use it as a baseline and adjust as needed. That's the reason owl build is more popular, but it's not as good outside of a super organized/skilled group. People just like to do what the pros do.

- - - Updated - - -

Pallytime's build? The pros run that build almost exclusively, very rarely do they deviate from it.

He's the one I saw use the build originally months ago. Maybe pro players used it before him (which I kind of doubt because of the stun meta days a little while back), but he's the one I saw use it first.

[ttak82]

Some good points being raised in the thread.

The damage talent on mines isn't necessary. It's good but you can easily go locust at level 1 for more passive pushing power, which is what that build does. The crucial mine talents are the level 7 one and to a lesser extent the level 4 one.

The full hat build is also really overrated and only worth going for if you have an Illidan and maybe with a Zeratul. Even then the most important talent is the attack speed one, the other ones are optional imho.

I kind of have to agree with the full hat build being overrated. Monstrosity (which works best with a hat build) is useful mainly as a distraction and to use it properly you have to make sure that the enemy team is distracted enough to allow it to push - which does not happen often. Yeah sure, it was used in Blizzcon last year, but many will agree that the problem was on the other teams end as they seemingly failed to catch that in the draft.

The issue with hat build, as far as ive seen is that it's just harder to push with all the micro, and prioritizing heroes means you have to miss out on the xp, unless your 4 man team is somehow rotating so well in lanes - something that good teams wont allow. So people just gravitate to locusts for the xp advantage which is stupidly easy. (Even easier if you just sit in a bush and cant be hunted easily)

As for damage talent on mines, it's only good if you take battle spores (Level 4) and Ultimate Evolution to cause problems in teamfights or during objective. Or if you want some WTF action. There are some counters though and you lose out on some pushing power.

[Sir Andy]

I'd move Sylvanas and Zagara up to 2, maybe even 1, but otherwise, looks solid.