Dutch journalist arrested in Tureky after critisizing Erdogan

[Sunseeker]

Her parents are Turkish.

So? Move her parents out or tell them "Sorry mom and dad, your country's leader sucks monkey balls and I like to write about that, living there just isn't going to work out."

Oh well, another Western person with an entitlement complex who learned very quickly all those nice freedom of speech laws aren't universal. I'm not terribly torn up over this in any case.

[JohnBrown1917]

So? Move her parents out or tell them "Sorry mom and dad, your country's leader sucks monkey balls and I like to write about that, living there just isn't going to work out."

Oh well, another Western person with an entitlement complex who learned very quickly all those nice freedom of speech laws aren't universal. I'm not terribly torn up over this in any case.

By that I ment she is Turkish herself, not that it matters why she went.
I get it, that as a somebody who is not from the Netherlands, you won't give a fuck, but that is not the case for those of us who are actually from the Netherlands. Letting another country arrest somebody for no good reason means we should take action to get that person back. Its impossible in countries like North-Korea, but we can still Sanction Turkey/keep them out of the EU.
But she won't learn anything from this, I have no doubt she'll be released. With the whole government and opposition wanting something done about this.


I do not consider stupidity to be a reason to just abandon a citizen from your country.

[Wyrt]

Thanks to that backwards country Europe isn't getting flooded with refugees.

Doesn't make them any less backwards.

[Kuntantee]

Thanks to that backwards country Europe isn't getting flooded with refugees.

I just don't understand why Europeans hate Erdogan...He's the only leader they can actually buy. The only leader who can serve European interests before Turkish interests in order to get support and stay in power. If it was for some other party, any party, 3/4 of the refugees would be shipped to Europe.

[Sunseeker]

By that I ment she is Turkish herself, not that it matters why she went.
I get it, that as a somebody who is not from the Netherlands, you won't give a fuck, but that is not the case for those of us who are actually from the Netherlands. Letting another country arrest somebody for no good reason means we should take action to get that person back. Its impossible in countries like North-Korea, but we can still Sanction Turkey/keep them out of the EU.
But she won't learn anything from this, I have no doubt she'll be released. With the whole government and opposition wanting something done about this.


I do not consider stupidity to be a reason to just abandon a citizen from your country.

But she was a "citizen" living in another country. She doesn't get protection from your laws while over there. That's the exact kind of thinking that promotes her ideology. I feel the same way about Americans who get arrested going to North Korea. They're fucking idiots and I won't cry any tears over the loss of fucking idiots.

[Gref]

I am Turkish and I hate Erdogan for putting all kind of religious bullshit into everything. 2 things I read from the anti-akp news Sozcu today:

1) a person got arrested for asking "where is the zoo". On the link there is a visual so the question is totally legit and the events. Too much to translate.
http://www.sozcu.com.tr/2016/gundem/...landi-1201764/

2) another AKP clown who happens to be the head of grand assembly of Turkey states that new constitution shouldn't have "secularism" in it. He says "Turkey is a muslim country". How about you fuck off? Not everybody has to obey beliefs. It is belief. In quran it is clearly written no force is to be used for making people believe, here we go a fucking moron stating we have to obey, believe etc and "we are muslim country". Hold it dude. No we are not. Contsitution says: Turkey is a democratic, secular, republic. We have muslims and we have all others. Fucking morons won't get it, we are not arabs. we don'T have oil, if we don't produce high tech material, what are we going to sell? what is your religion producing? how are we going to advance?
http://www.sozcu.com.tr/2016/gundem/...dir-2-1201846/

ugh all these people...disgusting. don't you realize you owe everything you have to the democratic, secular ways of Turkey now. All those sharia countries... what do they have what do they produce, how do they live? anybody defending erdogan and its religious lunatics are flat out retards. AKp and its clowns mindfucked by religion are the reason why so many bright turkish going abroad and never returning back.

[Lesane]

And it also not mean they have the rigth to arrest a dutch citizen for this bullshit without getting any backlash from the dutch government.

We, the Dutch, should in no way feel obliged to respect those laws.
Acid is spot on, its backwards to do nothing about this bullshit.

Great mentality. I wonder if you will feel the same about foreigners coming here to break our laws? Why should they care about or respect our "bullshit" laws?

She wrote it while she was in the netherlands.
Not that it smart to go to Turkey for anybody who dislikes erdogan.

Is that so? She went to Turkey on the 17th and the column was published on the 21st, which she retweeted on that same day and she also made another tweet in Turkey that is not acceptable by Turkish law.

Turkey is full of people who dislike Erdogan. Most people don't get into trouble for it though. You know why? Because they're not idiots who spam shit on social media that they are fully aware of is illegal.

By that I ment she is Turkish herself, not that it matters why she went.
I get it, that as a somebody who is not from the Netherlands, you won't give a fuck, but that is not the case for those of us who are actually from the Netherlands. Letting another country arrest somebody for no good reason means we should take action to get that person back. Its impossible in countries like North-Korea, but we can still Sanction Turkey/keep them out of the EU.
But she won't learn anything from this, I have no doubt she'll be released. With the whole government and opposition wanting something done about this.


I do not consider stupidity to be a reason to just abandon a citizen from your country.

Speak for yourself. She got arrested because she is suspected of breaking the law. That is a good reason why we shouldn't give a fuck. She was fully aware of the laws, yet decided to break them anyway. If she did it by accident and wasn't aware of it, I could maybe see a case where as a Dutch person I would support the Dutch government taking actions to resolve the situation. This idiotic woman however earns a living by doing this bullshit, and I couldn't care less if she ends up in jail for it.

If I go to Germany and start saying the Nazi's were right and that the Holocaust never happened, would you also demand sanctions from the Dutch government if they end up throwing me in jail? Don't be ridiculous.

Doesn't make them any less backwards.

It kinda does, considering how Europe can't handle a handful of refugees yet this guy can host millions of them in his country.

I just don't understand why Europeans hate Erdogan...He's the only leader they can actually buy. The only leader who can serve European interests before Turkish interests in order to get support and stay in power. If it was for some other party, any party, 3/4 of the refugees would be shipped to Europe.

Because hurr durr he supports ISIS, he wants to be a sultan of a new Ottoman caliphate, he hates women, he hates freedom, he hates Jews and Christians, he sabotages the elections, he taunts Russia bla bla bla. The amount of shit Europeans being fed about this guy is absurd. Sure, some of the things are actually true but most of it is either made up, twisted or heavily accentuated. And then you have organisations like the Gulen movement who are butthurt from having their monies taken away from them with their dershane schemes also booking tickets on the Erdogan hate train, which makes Europeans think all that hate is justified even more because "Look! Even the (religious) Turks hate him!".

Recent example: Anadolu Ajansi released a press statement where Erdogan said that so far they have neutralized 5000 terrorists with their operations. Guess how the Dutch media presented this news message? Erdogan: "We have already killed 5000 Kurds", as if he was celebrating the death toll of random innocent Kurds. They even cited Anadolu Ajansi as a source. The original statement never mentioned PKK, let alone Kurds, yet this is how the Dutch media decides to portray it. In Turkey they might be silencing media outlets and journalists, but over here they just feed you with misinformation and half-truths instead in order to make you scared of the big bad muslims and foreigners and the "long arm of Ankara".

[Wyrt]

It kinda does, considering how Europe can't handle a handful of refugees yet this guy can host millions of them in his country.

Because Turkey is closer to what these refugees are used to and they fit in better.

[Gref]

Because Turkey is closer to what these refugees are used to and they fit in better.

%50 true. Yes we are closer but geographically. No they don't fit. Upstairs is syrian family. When they arrived it was disgusting for me to see a woman in full black covers and a man with long beard. Ugh...I am from Canakkale. Seeing those people more and more is simply disturbing. When you enjoy your beer at a cafe seaside and you see an angry man bearded man looking at you you kinda feel stressed. Do you have any idea what a Turkish person looks like? What do you imagine in a classroom of university students in Turkey? I can show you samples if you want to. They don't fit in sir. Just sharing the same religion is not working. West has western values.

East however is close. But even then eastern people are complaining about their presence. It is sorry but like pollution. Don't get me wrong of course we will help but what I want to say they stand out , they don't fit. But...

Erdogan has a wonderful plan of outnumbering kurdish population on the eastern part of turkey by placing syrians. Win/win for him. Lose lose for turkey.

[Grishnaar]

Fuck Erdogan. Fuck me.

Now...do we arrest me for "insulting" Erdogan or "insulting" me? Hmm.....

[Kuntantee]

Because hurr durr he supports ISIS, he wants to be a sultan of a new Ottoman caliphate, he hates women, he hates freedom, he hates Jews and Christians, he sabotages the elections, he taunts Russia bla bla bla. The amount of shit Europeans being fed about this guy is absurd. Sure, some of the things are actually true but most of it is either made up, twisted or heavily accentuated. And then you have organisations like the Gulen movement who are butthurt from having their monies taken away from them with their dershane schemes also booking tickets on the Erdogan hate train, which makes Europeans think all that hate is justified even more because "Look! Even the (religious) Turks hate him!".

Let me tell which of them are true:

-He Support ISIS: Probably bullshit
-He hates woman: He probably doesn't, but he doesn't respect women as much as a modern person should
-He wants to be sultan of New Ottoman "Caliphate": He certainly has neo-Ottoman dreams. His policies in Syria were based on carving out two new federates from Syria for Turkey (Syrian Kurdistan and North West Syria with Sunni Arab majority)
-He hates freedom: Any person with dictator tendencies hates freedoms of other people
-He hates Jews and Christian: Bullshit, he can ally with anyone as long as it serves his on interest. I doubt he's emotional about Christianity or Judaism followers.
-He sabotages elections: He probably did for some elections, not for last two. Those were probably fair games

I can understand the bullshit being spread in Western Media, not solely about Erdogan but for Turkey and Syrian matter in general. This also includes Russia. Unfortunately, minds without critical thinking abilities are buying them which, again unfortunately, corresponds to the masses in West. Don't get me wrong, the last thing I want in the head of government is affiliates of political Islam such as Erdogan.

I agree that Gulen movement was too dangerous to let live. It's a good thing that political Islamists (AKP) actually dispatched another Islamist affiliate (Gulen movement). One less trouble.

Recent example: Anadolu Ajansi released a press statement where Erdogan said that so far they have neutralized 5000 terrorists with their operations. Guess how the Dutch media presented this news message? Erdogan: "We have already killed 5000 Kurds", as if he was celebrating the death toll of random innocent Kurds. They even cited Anadolu Ajansi as a source. The original statement never mentioned PKK, let alone Kurds, yet this is how the Dutch media decides to portray it. In Turkey they might be silencing media outlets and journalists, but over here they just feed you with misinformation and half-truths instead in order to make you scared of the big bad muslims and foreigners and the "long arm of Ankara".

I know this for years, misinformations and half-truths presented by Western Media. I've mentioned this exact problem in another discussion with @Slant. Western Media is a bit more professional in the way they present the bullshit. They avoid outright lies, unlike RT and Sputnik but it's same thing really, functionally. People like @Acidbaron think their media is absent of lies, and believe whatever is being thrown at them.

---

You know too much about Turkey, are you sure you are a Dutch? I mean Dershane, Gulen and whatnot...This kind of sophistication regarding Turkey is a bit unexpected from a Westerner.

[Deleted]

Kuntantee where do you get all that shit about western media from ?
Most of what you listed is from RUSSIA media and came after the plane went down for being in Turkish airspace.

What get you attention is when you silence media or try to in any way like in Sweden recently, that blows up very rapidly as it's one of the key stones of western democracy.

Mess with media and it will make it to the news around western countries. Like shutting down that news station or whatever. We've had plenty of dictators in Europe that's what the do. It's one of the first signs. Limit freedom of speech.

Media being media often blows things up though.

[Kuntantee]

Kuntantee where do you get all that shit about western media from ?

I read it? Most of those points I mentioned are of Western origin. Not that I am claiming all of them to be lies, I actually supported most of those claims.

Most of what you listed is from RUSSIA media and came after the plane went down for being in Turkish airspace.

I hardly ever read Russian media.

What get you attention is when you silence media or try to in any way like in Sweden recently, that blows up very rapidly as it's one of the key stones of western democracy.

Mess with media and it will make it to the news around western countries. Like shutting down that news station or whatever. We've had plenty of dictators in Europe that's what the do. It's one of the first signs. Limit freedom of speech.

Media being media often blows things up though.

Not sure how this is relevant with what I said. Lesane gave a good example of bullshit in Western Media. I've spotted and expressed more bullshit in the past, but they were dismissed because it was coming from a Turk. I am highly cynical about any media, be it Turkish or Western. Same can not be said for Westerners around here, they say our media is best, believe whatever is written there and dismiss anything coming from a foreign media outlet.

[Noradin]

Yes you are or at the very least justifying it. You are saying it's okay to arrest a person for writing, commenting and what not anywhere, since it got 'retweeted'.

Find the sentence where I called it "ok", I dare you.

[Deleted]

• She's hardly a journalist. She writes garbage opinion columns for a free newspaper that people can pick up at train stations.
• Criticism of Erdogan is giving her a bit too much credit. It's usually just uneducated and sensationalist hate spewing towards him. A recent example of her column, regarding the news of Turkish consulates in the Netherlands asking Dutch-Turks to report insults towards Erdogan, has her comparing people who would heed the call to NSB-ers (Nazi collaborators) and telling them to "go fuck themselves and to give Erdogan a good fucking while they're at it".
• She's 2nd generation Dutch-Turkish, the Uncle Tom type of Dutch-Turkish. That is the only reason she has any sort of following at all, because she just loves making other Dutch-Turks and other minorities in the Netherlands look like backwards idiots in order to get appreciation from racist/biased Dutch people. The only reason the Turkish part of her nationality/ethnicity is left out now is because she is riding the hate train towards non-Western Dutch citizens.
• She breaks the laws in Turkey so she gets arrested, big deal. You can disagree with a law but that doesn't mean you have the right to break it or that a country doesn't have the right to act upon it.
• She is a diehard Atatürk supporter, and one could argue that Atatürk was a dictator in his own right and social media in Turkey has been silenced plenty of times over satires or criticism of Atatürk as well. Insulting Atatürk can result in up to 6 years in prison in Turkey. In other words, she's a hypocrite at best.

Don't give her more attention than she deserves, which is very little. She's just a nobody who exploits her ethnic background for publicity.

Oh and the fact that she writes and uploads her bullshit in the Netherlands doesn't mean that she's therefore immune to the laws of Turkey once she enters Turkey. In fact, until recently the Turkish law that forbids insulting the Turkish nation or its government among other things, had a part in it where breaking this law as a Turkish citizen OUTSIDE of Turkey would lead to a 30% increase on top of the usual punishment. I'm not sure if she still has her Turkish nationality and passport, but in case she does she's just as much Turkish as she's Dutch and especially as a Turkish citizen she has the responsibility to adhere to Turkish law, whether she likes it or not.

Whether you like her or not, does not take away from the fact that freedom of speech is at stake here.
Don’t you think there is a serious problem here if you know that Turkey wants to be member of the European Union? That Turkey uses the recent Syrian refugee problem as a way to put pressure on the EU? Turkey is basically blackmailing our whole system right now.
Why would we want to allow a country that is opposed to our whole culture of freedom?

The moment Hans Teeuwen starts being funny.

That means never.

I don’t Like Hans Teeuwen either, but he was freaking right, and at least was defending his freedom of speech. Something we should all be doing here.
If you read some of the posts against Ebru Umar, you would know something wrong is going on in The Netherlands. The news about the burglary in her home and the word ‘Whore’ that was written on her wall, should make you start questioning the whole situation.

Actually, if you look at it from another perspective, the arrest is a good thing for the awareness of people in Europe. It does 3 things:

1. Make people realize they should not want Turkey in the Union
2. Expose the hate sowing Turks in our country.
3. Makes clear that Erdogan cannot cope with people who have a different opinion than his

[Noradin]

We, the Dutch, should in no way feel obliged to respect those laws.

What about the other way around, should the Turkish feel obliged to respect the laws of The Netherlands when they come to visit?

- - - Updated - - -

She wrote it while she was in the netherlands.
Not that it smart to go to Turkey for anybody who dislikes erdogan.

She wrote it while she was in The Netherlands, she also posted it while in Turkey.
Whether she wrote it in The Netherlands is irrelevant, legally relevant is what she did in Turkey and what she published while there is subject to the laws of Turkey.

- - - Updated - - -

I just don't understand why Europeans hate Erdogan...He's the only leader they can actually buy. The only leader who can serve European interests before Turkish interests in order to get support and stay in power. If it was for some other party, any party, 3/4 of the refugees would be shipped to Europe.

We do not like leaders around us who can be bought, you never know whose money they take next.

[MCMLXXXII]

I've read that column a few times and the only insulting thing she says to Erdogan is: Go fuck yourself. So masturbation is illegal in Turkey?

[Deleted]

Not sure how this is relevant with what I said. Lesane gave a good example of bullshit in Western Media. I've spotted and expressed more bullshit in the past, but they were dismissed because it was coming from a Turk. I am highly cynical about any media, be it Turkish or Western. Same can not be said for Westerners around here, they say our media is best, believe whatever is written there and dismiss anything coming from a foreign media outlet.

Western media or western media style. One is countries and the other a type of journalism.
Foreign media outlet, you do know that western media is atleast 20 countries...the style is everything from independent to fox to cnn to niche type of agencies.

It's open so you will have opinion pieces, agenda pieces and outright propaganda. You can often find what type of paper a company is running if its conservative, liberal, leftist, right, or middle.

Different pieces different agencies. Just find it really weird to take 1000s of papers and just label them the same like they all had the same agenda.

Western media is often independent when it comes to press hence you get articles like from that dutch journalist.

[lonely zergling]

The real question is: where is "Tureky"? (The thread title is messed up)

[Deleted]

I know a turkisk person. She has a hard time dealing with people who has a problem with her appearance or just anything that is in her personality.

"If you say i am fat and ugly! I will slap you right back!" Erdogan is acting like a little girl and that does not suprise me as he is from the middle-east. Imagine if Blizzard did that. "You say our product is shit!? To jail with you bitch!".

She does not realize that what she said there was super childish in itself. She is oblivious, probably because of their culture.