[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Ilir]

I'd be surprised if we didn't get tuned downwards numbers wise to be honest.

Tuned down and nerf for me are differents things.

When I say nerf, I mean like "hello -30% damage on voidbolt, mindblast" stuff like that that completely destroys the spec

Tho some classes are doing pretty good too while being strong in aoe/cleave so who knows.

[2about]

heh, I wouldn't expect spriests going into legion strong at all. Numbers will be as its always been, a mile away from mages, locks and the gap will grow as the expansion/gear go on.

[Chantique]

After watching game of thrones last night, if i eventually spec surrender to madness, i will totally make an on cast macro to say "For the night is dark and full of terrors" <33

[v1perz53]

So I am very late to this thread and I am sure this has been mentioned before but I couldn't find it when I searched (any search for movement came up with discussion of the movement talent tier). After reviewing the current toolkit and spells I am a bit confused about movement DPS options for Spriest in legion. Unless I am missing something, our only baseline option while moving outside of Voidform and over 20%(35%) enemy HP is to spam SW: P? And in Voidform, the only movement option is to hope it lines up with Void Bolt and hope it is only one GCD worth of moving? I guess it isn't a bad thing to have some classes without movement DPS as long as it is balanced but it still seems odd to have no options at all, so I wanted to make sure I am not missing something. Shadowy Insight is unreliable and Shadow Crash is awkward, but I guess they both count also? And my god I can't believe Surrender to Madness has made it this far. Do they truly believe it can ever be balanced or do they really just not care?

[Aeriel]

So I am very late to this thread and I am sure this has been mentioned before but I couldn't find it when I searched (any search for movement came up with discussion of the movement talent tier). After reviewing the current toolkit and spells I am a bit confused about movement DPS options for Spriest in legion. Unless I am missing something, our only baseline option while moving outside of Voidform and over 20%(35%) enemy HP is to spam SW: P? And in Voidform, the only movement option is to hope it lines up with Void Bolt and hope it is only one GCD worth of moving? I guess it isn't a bad thing to have some classes without movement DPS as long as it is balanced but it still seems odd to have no options at all, so I wanted to make sure I am not missing something. Shadowy Insight is unreliable and Shadow Crash is awkward, but I guess they both count also? And my god I can't believe Surrender to Madness has made it this far. Do they truly believe it can ever be balanced or do they really just not care?

Most classes and specs (range in particular) lost some degree of mobility, so, yes, all priests have essentially the same movement options.

Shadowy Insight's increased proc rate sounds much more useful in play tests, but if you do not like the unpredictable, then AS or San'layn is better.
Edit: I misread a bit. You can fish for SI procs for movement, but AS would likely be more reliable since that is when you would "hard cast" SWP on targets that VB couldn't keep up.


StM is not really meant to be balanced. Blizz has already stated that it is incredibly powerful, which they like. However, it is also extremely difficult to play, so it is not meant to be for everyone. It's the equivalent of someone perfectly timing procs and the legendary ring versus someone who does not have the ring, particularly in execute where Shadow thrives.

[Djriff]

Well, SoD may actually be a thing we'll use. Probably on mvoement heavy fights and just bank your mind blast for movement. Even now on live we don't have a lot of options to cast on the move so we learned how to stutter step cast. You think our movement DPS is bad? An arcane mage literraly has 1 skill they can use on the move and that's it, granted they have blink, but that's still a GCD wasted.

[v1perz53]

I guess most classes and specs lost movement options, but Shadow seems the most severe to me. Versus, say, Elemental which has a talent that grants a really nice mobility option, or Balance which at least has multiple instant cast spells to use, Shadow is the only one I've seen so far that has at baseline a single useable damage spell on the move in most scenarios. Again, not a big deal just making sure I wasn't missing a mechanic.

And I guess I am just cynical but I can't see any situation for StM aside from it being able to be used in certain specific situations where it is far overpowered, and it is just not used otherwise. Not sure how much of it is a "you have to play perfectly" thing versus a "use this when you don't have to move and can DPS a target the whole fight". But we will see, I hope I am proven wrong.

Well, SoD may actually be a thing we'll use. Probably on mvoement heavy fights and just bank your mind blast for movement. Even now on live we don't have a lot of options to cast on the move so we learned how to stutter step cast. You think our movement DPS is bad? An arcane mage literraly has 1 skill they can use on the move and that's it, granted they have blink, but that's still a GCD wasted.

I guess a mage can at least spec into a different spec if they need movement, though with artifact levelling this becomes less possible. And an arcane mage has Ice Floes plus 3 other instant talent options they can chose, so at least they can talent into overcoming that issue.

[Djriff]

Yeah, i do hope the compensate for it. I mean currently we have Cascade, DP, Shadowfiend/Mindbender, MB (CoP), PW: S, SW: P, and SW: D we can use on the move. That's a bit too much IMO. Almost all of those are gone come legion :/

[KrakHed]

RIP me ... I can't play on any on my char on the alpha "Character not Found" T______T

Ah damn. I guess that means it might be a little while before you can share more quotes?

[Annesh]

@Annesh

Bad news bud:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...94515?page=1#3

Phooey, time to make a thousand whine posts

[Kretan]

Yeah, i do hope the compensate for it. I mean currently we have Cascade, DP, Shadowfiend/Mindbender, MB (CoP), PW: S, SW: P, and SW: D we can use on the move. That's a bit too much IMO. Almost all of those are gone come legion :/

Honestly, while in void form on alpha mobility feels pretty good because of void bolt. When you add a high tick rate of shadow word pain you can also tack on instant mind blasts. I think our mobility is much better with the recent SI buff.

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Phooey, time to make a thousand whine posts

Haha. I think they would have made random BGs a true shitfest though. Granted we would probably end up on top so I wouldn't mind

[Gnarilex]

And I guess I am just cynical but I can't see any situation for StM aside from it being able to be used in certain specific situations where it is far overpowered, and it is just not used otherwise. Not sure how much of it is a "you have to play perfectly" thing versus a "use this when you don't have to move and can DPS a target the whole fight". But we will see, I hope I am proven wrong..

Actually they changed StM. You can now cast while moving when it's active. From what I've read the first voidform is pretty easy to get into so LotV isn't that useful, and mind spike hasn't won over anyone either (even after its revision) so StM might end up being the default talent choice.

[davesignal]

It's important to remember that dots don't stop ticking just because you're running, and SWP/VT look like they'll be making up a larger percentage of our damage in Legion. And even then, you can still hammer on SW:P to keep your insanity generation from stalling.

[Annesh]

Haha. I think they would have made random BGs a true shitfest though. Granted we would probably end up on top so I wouldn't mind

That's probably true, but not having Norgannon's makes me pretty sad. Instant SI+Mind Trauma is still a thing so there's that for mobility. With some meaningful melee nerfs and assuming we're brought up to par in terms of interrupt resistance (par being the 3-4 specs that now have bullshit immunity, that is), I think things will be just fine.

[aemaet]

Yesterday I saw some people getting legitimately triggered about SP topping the meters during raid test. "This isn't right, sp is a support class and shouldn't be doing damage" they said and I began to wonder, how many people actually think like that and is blizzard going to listen to them?

[l33t]

Yesterday I saw some people getting legitimately triggered about SP topping the meters during raid test. "This isn't right, sp is a support class and shouldn't be doing damage" they said and I began to wonder, how many people actually think like that and is blizzard going to listen to them?

Pff, were those people not playing since BC or what?

[Ilir]

Yeah that's what I meant aemaet. It looks to me people will cry for nerf bla bla bla. I don't mind getting tuned down if we're like TOO ahead of everyone. Also, keep in mind that the 2 raid boss from yday had bugs like pets not working properly/dash not working properly/invalid target and so on.

We'll see.
@KrakHed I can play again, I still have like 2 whispers from 2 days ago. I'll post everything I have tonight.

[Aeriel]

And I guess I am just cynical but I can't see any situation for StM aside from it being able to be used in certain specific situations where it is far overpowered, and it is just not used otherwise. Not sure how much of it is a "you have to play perfectly" thing versus a "use this when you don't have to move and can DPS a target the whole fight". But we will see, I hope I am proven wrong.

Yesterday I saw some people getting legitimately triggered about SP topping the meters during raid test. "This isn't right, sp is a support class and shouldn't be doing damage" they said and I began to wonder, how many people actually think like that and is blizzard going to listen to them?

These quotes are why I am scared to see what happens to SPriest in tuning. I repeatedly see SPriest referred to as "OP" and "Godmode" on forums like our being a few percent higher than other specs is an outlier. Yes, we do need a little tuning downwards, but not nearly to the degree people are calling for. I wouldn't mind doing lower damage if we actually were able to support, but that was nerfed to nothingness expansions ago.

Currently, StM has the death stigma still, so other players assume that it will never be used. However, when they see the damage it can put out over the 1.5min uptime the screams to "NERF IT TO THE GROUND" will flood the forums.

[Kretan]

Actually they changed StM. You can now cast while moving when it's active. From what I've read the first voidform is pretty easy to get into so LotV isn't that useful, and mind spike hasn't won over anyone either (even after its revision) so StM might end up being the default talent choice.

I'm afraid that DPS wise, StM might be the best in most situations. If there is more than 1 target available, it is definitely your best option. This all depends on the tuning of mind spike though. With how easy it is to get in to void form, legacy of the void is more useful for pvp than pve to be honest.

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That's probably true, but not having Norgannon's makes me pretty sad. Instant SI+Mind Trauma is still a thing so there's that for mobility. With some meaningful melee nerfs and assuming we're brought up to par in terms of interrupt resistance (par being the 3-4 specs that now have bullshit immunity, that is), I think things will be just fine.

To be honest with mind trauma and SI interrupts might as well not exist. Because SI is 10%, having it on only 3 targets machine gun procs to you. When you add in pets, you almost never have to cast anything but VT. Also, the fact that mind trauma is able to apply SWP in 0.0000001 sec of casting, that really isn't interrupt-able either. While we don't have the interrupt protections of other specs, we have to cast an order of magnitude less than than right now also with the right talents.

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Yesterday I saw some people getting legitimately triggered about SP topping the meters during raid test. "This isn't right, sp is a support class and shouldn't be doing damage" they said and I began to wonder, how many people actually think like that and is blizzard going to listen to them?

Too many people probably believe that, but I don't think Blizzard has listened to them for years. The reason it looks like they do is because pures have multiple specs to go to to always be great at a fight.

[Koire]

Hi all. Some more dagger quotes for you


I think I got the first one near the Naaru in the order hall. The second whisper appeared when I was approaching the Suramar city for the first time.
The sleeping city was also mentioned here: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Puzzle_Box_of_Yogg-Saron
Looks like spoilers to me)