Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Jewsco]

So why Blizz stated that they're talking with those criminals? Would you talk with someone who stole from you or call the cops?

If trying to reach a deal without envolving the law yes or maybe trying to get some info out of them before envolving the law where then you have to go thru lawyers. Finally maybe to quite some of the complainers for good pr. Many reasons to do so from blizz's point of view.

[tpc]

Yes, and apart some really rare excpetion, are pretty much all very bad. Thus, not really relevant - Nostalrius has been a really good one, hence my doubts. My point is, if it's done in the good way, how much time will it need to last to be something worth for Blizzard to invest on?

because it's basically all about this. It cannot turn into a meteor otherwise in addition to the wasted resources it would backfire as an horrible PR trainwreck because "FFS Blizzard cannot even redo Vanilla right" or something on the line.

Vanilla has easily enough content to last people for a couple of years.. Then you could merge old servers and open fresh ones that will keep people playing, much like Diablo 2 and 3. Fresh servers are magical in vanilla wow. After a few years it would problary slow down, but at that point all the costs are in the past and maintaining the population with GMs and servers will be selfsufficient aslong as they keep some sort of sub..

If they would keep it going from vanilla > tbc > wrath, they would have content for many years - and lets be honest, who is expecting WoW to be a mainstream game in another 6-8 years anyway?

I dont think there is any reason to believe that legacy servers would not be profitable or would not be able to retain people for years. That said, it obviously wont be the billion dollar machine that WoW has been for the past decade.

[Stobbz]

I was so looking forward to a response of 'Vanilla was awesome, you guys, the 12 mil that once loved wow are awesome and us here at Blizzard are awesome , so with that in mind we are adding nostalrius servers to legion as an extra DLC, after hearing this i was planning on getting overwatch to celebrate, and then 'no its too difficult' is nonsense, if a few people can make it in their spare time the statement from Blizz is a lie.

Vanilla or Bust

[Deleted]

again, blizzard is telling us what we want ...

[cholobanger]

Vanilla has easily enough content to last people for a couple of years.. Then you could merge old servers and open fresh ones that will keep people playing, much like Diablo 2 and 3. Fresh servers are magical in vanilla wow. After a few years it would problary slow down, but at that point all the costs are in the past and maintaining the population with GMs and servers will be selfsufficient aslong as they keep some sort of sub..

If they would keep it going from vanilla > tbc > wrath, they would have content for many years - and lets be honest, who is expecting WoW to be a mainstream game in another 6-8 years anyway?

I dont think there is any reason to believe that legacy servers would not be profitable or would not be able to retain people for years. That said, it obviously wont be the billion dollar machine that WoW has been for the past decade.

Can you help me understand how an expansion like Vanilla will last 'a couple of years'. Given overall skill level of the average player has dramatically increased, the execution of so many PvE encounters being arguably less mechanical and so many more resources and knowledge of Vanilla being readily available. How can you argue that all of the content won't be cleared within a year, and that those same players will keep playing?

I understand an incredible amount of people will receive their satisfaction or nostalgia from clearing the content but what makes it sustainable like it was back in the day?

[Deleted]

Its not better for community since you are fragmenting it.

New player comes and is looking what to play "play vanilla itz ze best" "shutup nub tbc rocks" "wotlk all the way" "legion dont listen to rose tinted glasses".
And thats not keeping it together i don't care that you play on vanilla server, you are not part of my community since we are not playing same game.

If vanilla can stand on its own legs and pay for itself (blizzard obviously doesnt think so) go for it....if not then i dont want it anywhere near my sub.

That's what I don't get. Vanilla fanboys want the community back like it used to be but without actually having a community outside of their little special group.

[Jeniwyn]

Okay i had Enough of all this BS. WHat he said, you may dissagree but it is true, if a company does not actively protect a trademark they can loose it. AND Do you / we like they shut it down? No, but It is their lawfull Right to do so. End of it, was it right in a morale way? Who knows that is debateable but it was their lawfull right.

The problem with blizzard doing their own Vanila servers is, AND PLEASE answer me this, is what people are forgetting is,

aWhat part of vanila AQ 20-40? Naxx?

All of it. If they release it on a schedule they will probably make the most money and give the best experience, so that is what I'd recommend. But releasing it all at time zero would be ok too.

What about bugs. What bugs should they have fixed?

They don't need to fix any bugs. If they have the source code of both clients and there are some bugs that they could easily fix with more or less copy-paste that doesn't significantly change the power of the abilities it is a plus, but otherwise they can just leave it.

What about the grafic? - Should it stay true to Vanila level of Look + Grafic or should it be as pretty as it is now?

Leaving it would seem easiest. But private individuals have made their own MPQs with the new graphics for the old client, so this is obviously not hard to do if they prefer it. Again, optional and not very important.

What about interface? Mass loot, and other stuff. What about quaility of life services like Mount bag, Titles being Indidual.

This they should just leave as is. Would probably require a rewrite of the entire client to make it like retail and vanilla at the same time.

What in 4 years. When people have played lots of vanila, should they end upgrade to TBC server? WHAT if they make one, should you be able to move your currenct Vanila char or have to make a new ones?

Charachter copy isn't hard. They do it for the PTR all the time so, yes. That would make the most sense.

How many servers?

Depends on how many players one realm can support. I'd start with one per server type(PvP/PvE/RP/RP-PvP) per region and then open new ones if demand requires it. Once they give the go ahead they are in a much better position to estimate demand.

What should it cost?

Easiest would probably be to require a Legion upgraded version of wow and an active subscription. The overlap of players subscribed at the moment seems low so the sales + subscription for returners should offset the cost with an enormous margin. They should be able to get servers up for less than $1M and that they will certainly make back.

[rarhyx]

That is why I'd combine retail and legacy servers in 1 sub fee and force the legacy players to own the latest expansion. It would be good for every player and probably a rise in revenue for blizzard, since it would:

a) Bring unsubbed people like myself back to the game.
b) Get more people to buy legion.
c) Get those people not originally interested in legion to try the game, and maybe keep playing it.
d) Have retail players check out legacy servers during content droughts, so they might be less likely to stop subscribing until the new patch/Expansion hits.

+1

from what I have read so fra, this is one of the best ideas.

[Camthur]

I think some people in WoW fan land are putting the cart before the horse. I keep seeing "i'm not interested in/will not play pristine". Uh, I don't think you have to worry about that. Nowhere in that letter does it say they are making them. They just said it's an idea they've kicked around for years.

I bet it won't be too long in the future when we see a "OMG Blizzard Suxxors, where's the pristine server I was PROMISED?!" thread. (when Blizzard made no such promise) I can really see why they play their cards so close to the vest most of the time.

[Knslyr]

again, blizzard is telling us what we want ...

"We aren’t sure whether this version of a clean slate is something that would appeal to the community and it’s still an open topic of discussion."

They never said that pristine servers was what the community wanted, and they didn't say it wasn't either.

[Koji2k11]

alright lets see it that way we wanted "housing" for years what we got was a garrison .... we want vanilla servers for years guess what we get ? :P

[Vaelorian]

alright lets see it that way we wanted "housing" for years what we got was a garrison .... we want vanilla servers for years guess what we get ? :P

Well it started as:
Players: we want housing!
Blizz: here have a farm!
Players: This is not what we asked!
Blizz: here have a who castle!
Players: This is not what we asked!

But the reverse is also true.

Players: the game is too hard and I never see raids! (said no one ever)
Blizz: we want things to be more accessible, so we made LFR so everyone can see the content
Players: Ok fine, we sorta agree with the costs involved of making raiding content and no one seeing it
Meanwhile at Blizzard: so what if we funnel all the non-raiders into LFR, therefore we can neglect the dungeons. They will become pointless quite quickly and everyone will raid. This will decrease production costs.
Blizz: So we see that LFR is really popular, everyone is doing it!
Players: Popularity doesn't equal fun. You made it so that LFR is the most efficient means to progress your character. So we walk the path you set us on. But we do not have fun doing it.
Blizz: Our data suggests that you have fun, it is so popular!
Players: Sigh....

Same thing happened to Garrisons tbh... Garrisons were used so much. People were doing missions and missions and getting followers and using the command table etc. So Blizzard added the shipyard!! W00h00, because it is popular people must like it!

Hey guys,
We see you do Apexis dailies and grouping up in a raid for them. Good that you like them so much. So many people are gathering those crystals. But we'll remove the raid option. It is too easy to get Apexis now.
Meanwhile: Blizz, we do not like Apexis dailies - but the raid makes it bearable. If we need to do it solo or in a 5 man, we won't. BEsides what are these things good for anyway?
Blizz: Hey guys next patch we'll give you ever more apexis crystals to gather. Crystals everywhere!!! Just like you want it.

[Deleted]

[Marakesh]

I hope getting some smooth Blizzard operator working them, doesn't stop the Nost staff from releasing the code and account database on the 30th. This is how evil wins in the modern world. Don't listen to that devil whispering in your ears guys!

Also, have to wonder how messed up the original vanilla coding was. How is it that smaller companies keep releasing legacy servers and Blizzard is the only from that era that cannot. No reasonable person thought it would be as simple as flipping a switch, but compared to a whole new mmo or even an equivalent amount of content in an existing mmo? That has to be a lot cheaper to only work on a part of the game.

If you look at how they handled realm pop's, I think that's the biggest clue here. They figured out that pretending to be the big and unstoppable mmo still is more important than how the game actually plays. Stick the costs of low pop on the customers and you're the boss. Fix the situation and actually give the customers what they want, and you're just a dying mmo losing sub's like everyone else. The fact that dead realms with crz works and the fact that cash shops work mean these kind of game will only select for the low end of the gene pool from here on out. Its the customer's job to pay Blizz at 90+ to have more than a few hundred people available for current content because WoW is so super awesome it has millions playing it!

[Armourboy]

Well it started as:
Players: we want housing!
Blizz: here have a farm!
Players: This is not what we asked!
Blizz: here have a who castle!
Players: This is not what we asked!

But the reverse is also true.

Players: the game is too hard and I never see raids! (said no one ever)
Blizz: we want things to be more accessible, so we made LFR so everyone can see the content
Players: Ok fine, we sorta agree with the costs involved of making raiding content and no one seeing it
Meanwhile at Blizzard: so what if we funnel all the non-raiders into LFR, therefore we can neglect the dungeons. They will become pointless quite quickly and everyone will raid. This will decrease production costs.
Blizz: So we see that LFR is really popular, everyone is doing it!
Players: Popularity doesn't equal fun. You made it so that LFR is the most efficient means to progress your character. So we walk the path you set us on. But we do not have fun doing it.
Blizz: Our data suggests that you have fun, it is so popular!
Players: Sigh....

Same thing happened to Garrisons tbh... Garrisons were used so much. People were doing missions and missions and getting followers and using the command table etc. So Blizzard added the shipyard!! W00h00, because it is popular people must like it!

Hey guys,
We see you do Apexis dailies and grouping up in a raid for them. Good that you like them so much. So many people are gathering those crystals. But we'll remove the raid option. It is too easy to get Apexis now.
Meanwhile: Blizz, we do not like Apexis dailies - but the raid makes it bearable. If we need to do it solo or in a 5 man, we won't. BEsides what are these things good for anyway?
Blizz: Hey guys next patch we'll give you ever more apexis crystals to gather. Crystals everywhere!!! Just like you want it.

While it's a bit tongue and cheek it is rather laughable how they have come to some rather dubious conclusions. Your list doesn't even include the pendulum effect they love so much as well. Saw people doing lots of dailies in Wrath and Cata, so they flooded MoP with them. People complained about there being too many so they removed 99% of them in WoD.

Same goes with 5 mans. One expansion they are difficult, the next they are dirt easy, the next they are difficult, the next they are dirt easy.

[RobertMugabe]

While it's a bit tongue and cheek it is rather laughable how they have come to some rather dubious conclusions. Your list doesn't even include the pendulum effect they love so much as well. Saw people doing lots of dailies in Wrath and Cata, so they flooded MoP with them. People complained about there being too many so they removed 99% of them in WoD.

Same goes with 5 mans. One expansion they are difficult, the next they are dirt easy, the next they are difficult, the next they are dirt easy.

Blizzard and ist community in a nutshell

[Deleted]

Listen to me.

Please do not confuse our dissatisfaction with how retail currently is with our love for classic WoW. This is important. We all want the retail version of the game to be great and enjoyable, the best it can be. If you want to take a look at the philosophy Blizzard built their games around 2005 and try to improve the retail version, then that is great.

But please, do not think that our love for classic WoW is a temporary thing because we currently dislike the retail version. The two are over ten years apart. They are completely different games. We want to play classic WoW, that is our only request. You've said that you would not provide it for us, so out of love for the game and the World of Warcraft community, some people have decided over the years to provide this game for us despite the hardships that come along with it.

There have been classic servers since forever, it's something that provides content almost indefinitely. This is mostly because classic servers were all about the community and the player driven content. If you release classic progression servers, there will definitely be content for years. Just have a talk with the devs at Nostalrius. The server had been up for over a year and we had not even started AQ war preparation. And the great thing about classic WoW is the fact that, even if you do complete all content - there is still a whole lot of things to do, since it's an open world with thousands of people in it.

The demand for these servers are unbelievable and we are all waiting to sell our houses and livers so that we can finally play on them.

The Vanilla communtiy has poked a lot of fun at Blizzard over the years, since we have felt that we've been ignored since Blizzard started to abandon some of the philosophies that we believe made the game truly great. We all want Blizzard to do great and we all want to feel welcome. Now, since we have been silenced in the past many WoW players have no idea how large the vanilla community actually is and I think it's fair to say that Blizzard have forgotten too.

Many people have been scared to 'split the community' by adding legacy servers, but the reality of the situation is this: we've been split ever since you abandoned the 2005 philosophies. But we've managed to do OK on our own, though many of us still subscribed to the retail game. Now, with Nostalrius shut down we just feel stepped on, thus the uproar lately.

We are not trying to steal your profits. We are your fans too. We have been waiting for years to be able to play legacy servers provided by Blizzard.

What we want is simple: Vanilla progressions servers, as they were back then. We don't want any modifications or 'improvements'. The only changes that are acceptable are stability and server capacity. Yes, some people might ask for X and Y to be changed - but that's nothing new. We had those few people on Nostalrius too. It's not difficult to say no and that this is will be servers as they were back then and nothing more.

We just want to go home, we just want Vanilla.

[Vaelorian]

Listen to me.

Please do not confuse our dissatisfaction with how retail currently is with our love for classic WoW. This is important. We all want the retail version of the game to be great and enjoyable, the best it can be. If you want to take a look at the philosophy Blizzard built their games around 2005 and try to improve the retail version, then that is great.

But please, do not think that our love for classic WoW is a temporary thing because we currently dislike the retail version. The two are over ten years apart. They are completely different games. We want to play classic WoW, that is our only request. You've said that you would not provide it for us, so out of love for the game and the World of Warcraft community, some people have decided over the years to provide this game for us despite the hardships that come along with it.

There have been classic servers since forever, it's something that provides content almost indefinitely. This is mostly because classic servers were all about the community and the player driven content. If you release classic progression servers, there will definitely be content for years. Just have a talk with the devs at Nostalrius. The server had been up for over a year and we had not even started AQ war preparation. And the great thing about classic WoW is the fact that, even if you do complete all content - there is still a whole lot of things to do, since it's an open world with thousands of people in it.

The demand for these servers are unbelievable and we are all waiting to sell our houses and livers so that we can finally play on them.

The Vanilla communtiy has poked a lot of fun at Blizzard over the years, since we have felt that we've been ignored since Blizzard started to abandon some of the philosophies that we believe made the game truly great. We all want Blizzard to do great and we all want to feel welcome. Now, since we have been silenced in the past many WoW players have no idea how large the vanilla community actually is and I think it's fair to say that Blizzard have forgotten too.

Many people have been scared to 'split the community' by adding legacy servers, but the reality of the situation is this: we've been split ever since you abandoned the 2005 philosophies. But we've managed to do OK on our own, though many of us still subscribed to the retail game. Now, with Nostalrius shut down we just feel stepped on, thus the uproar lately.

We are not trying to steal your profits. We are your fans too. We have been waiting for years to be able to play legacy servers provided by Blizzard.

What we want is simple: Vanilla progressions servers, as they were back then. We don't want any modifications or 'improvements'. The only changes that are acceptable are stability and server capacity. Yes, some people might ask for X and Y to be changed - but that's nothing new. We had those few people on Nostalrius too. It's not difficult to say no and that this is will be servers as they were back then and nothing more.

We just want to go home, we just want Vanilla.

I think I've read this post on the official US forums...

Nice post tho.

[Deleted]

Why would they, when they DON'T share your opinion? that makes no sense at all.

I'm sure losing more than half of their subscribers over the years is fairly self explanatory..

[Thanatoss]

I'm sure losing more than half of their subscribers over the years is fairly self explanatory..

You say losing, they say cyclical resubs/customers