"Undergearing" Mythic Archimonde

[Deleted]

3 people out of 1 group getting marks should be really, really rare. And even if, soaking 1.3 million damage with 3 players should not kill anyone with health pools at 500+k. And there is no reason to not be topped off when Marks hit. Plus, people should use personals for Marks, basically every class has some 1-minute CD for reducing damage a bit.

[psyquest]

That is exactly what we're doing.

The problem is that if for example the people at orange gets all the marks, there will only be 2 people left at orange. Which will in most cases kill them.

install the bloody addon... and be done with marks


split the raid for 4 groups for infernals. each group has one person to either grip or taunt one.
one group does not kill their infernal, check the group comp and swap people around. If they still dont kill their infernal, check the people in that group. How long are they taking to target them. Make sure dps players keeps their big CD for the 4th wave and 3/5min CD for fourth wave with pot.

for those shitty balls that KB people, 3 casters at the back for each. melees do the 2 at front. these get insta gibbed.

whats left: learning the dance. For this a little trick. If the first free spot is front right then front left, it is either the D pattern or the fucked up one (right at the back). otherwise it is left right left....

If you manage to have all rez available for last phase. Let tank die to chrystal and only dps boss. rez tank. repeat with each rez available.

also: any idiot tunneling boss and not switching (check logs) you kick him.

[Amantino]

install the bloody addon... and be done with marks

I strongly disagree with this. I've tried 4 different ways of dealing with marks, and the addon is the worst of them. If you can get your hand on some proper WeakAuras, thats a lot better. But at this point, with this many pulls, you shouldn't start doing major changes to tactics like this imo.

[Relapses]

I highly recommend our strategy (no addon/WAs needed, only 4 people need to move/do something) that I detailed here:

I've downed Archie in a few guilds using both the WA the OP mentioned and this method. I will say that this method is more consistent but not entirely fool proof in that sometimes 4 people from one group will get the Mark and leave one dude to basically die if he can't solo it. (This can be communicated and usually prevented, but it does happen.) The WA circumvents this by always having a required number of people at each Mark, but the personal responsibility is a bit higher since that means a lot of players may be moving to different spots every mark rather than having a stagnant number of players in each group.

[psyquest]

I strongly disagree with this. I've tried 4 different ways of dealing with marks, and the addon is the worst of them. If you can get your hand on some proper WeakAuras, thats a lot better. But at this point, with this many pulls, you shouldn't start doing major changes to tactics like this imo.

Dont know if we are talking about the same addon, but the one I am using dynamically allocate people to soak and I checked the code.

[Jotaux]

That is exactly what we're doing.

The problem is that if for example the people at orange gets all the marks, there will only be 2 people left at orange. Which will in most cases kill them.

When you see most of your group getting the mark, make sure to pop a personal cd.

[Amantino]

Dont know if we are talking about the same addon, but the one I am using dynamically allocate people to soak and I checked the code.

"Mark of the Legion Helper", yes?

[Relapses]

"Mark of the Legion Helper", yes?

The add-on does the same thing as the WA. For all intents and purposes it's just a different approach to solve the same problem. Marks are a kind of wonky mechanic to begin with.

[Deleted]

I've downed Archie in a few guilds using both the WA the OP mentioned and this method. I will say that this method is more consistent but not entirely fool proof in that sometimes 4 people from one group will get the Mark and leave one dude to basically die if he can't solo it. (This can be communicated and usually prevented, but it does happen.) The WA circumvents this by always having a required number of people at each Mark, but the personal responsibility is a bit higher since that means a lot of players may be moving to different spots every mark rather than having a stagnant number of players in each group.

Completely agree with you.

The big "downside" of the addon/WA is that a lot more people need to move / make the right choice. For a "good" raid that's no problem. But a good raid also has at least one player that would move in case one group gets 4 Marks with the other strategy, so...

I just prefer strategies that are the mostsimple to memorize --> less fuck ups.

[Kikazz]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Ar12Zz4GVNyDYMJw/

So we've been extending our raid lock pretty much since we started doing mythic Xhul, which means we're somehow undergeared compared to other guilds progressing on Archie. I know top top guilds did this in way worse gear, so i know this is very much possible, but for example one of the guilds we're competing with, pushed a 0% wipe in 7:56, while our best try at 16% took us 7:32. This probably means we're staring at a 5th wave of infernals. (Except if we have 0 deaths and good rng on infernal spawns etc.)

I'm basically sharing this, if you guys think we're stretching it, and that the boss would be SO much easier if we had 4-5 ilvls more on our players? I would be heartbroken if we kept getting to 2-6% and just felt it was our maximum capability due to our ilvl.
Other tips are of course also appreciated.

(Mind you the disc priest is a trial).

as many people have stated in this post, your mages are terrible and should be in top three if not top after burst, there not even in top ten.
your boomkins arent using SoC, there using void.
all three boomkins should be using DSI & SoC on this fight, as three passive starfalls on the infernals will push them a lot faster as well as keeping damage from them on Source and Archy.

looking at the reason why the damage is low, you have people not optimizing there gear for the situations you are struggling in.

your players are like well fuck we cant get past this point lets keep bashing our heads at it, something will click and we will get it?

if the boomkins change there trinkets, and the mages up there dps you will get the kill.


Edit:

The reasoning behind the SoC requirement is the lack of overall raid damage to infernals. this is a requirement for boomkins on this fight and seeming as you have three it is a massive need for them to use it.
yes having void replaced with SoC, may gimp there dps in P1, but boomkins arent brought to Mythic Archy for the P1 damage, they are brought to the fight for there nice aoe cleave they can achieve on targets with CA double dot and auto Starfall cleave.

as for your mages, they seriously need to think about there mana management and use ion Evo, to go with there burst. there opening damage isnt that great, nor is there sustained. there trinket choices on some attempts and talent choices leave much to be enquired about.

Your warlock, please have him/her read a guide or two, on Aff or destro for the fight, Destro is preferred for the Havoc Chaosbolt cleave on the infernals last phase.

any more questions please PM me and i will gladly help.

[Adramelch]

The reasoning behind the SoC requirement is the lack of overall raid damage to infernals. this is a requirement for boomkins on this fight and seeming as you have three it is a massive need for them to use it.
yes having void replaced with SoC, may gimp there dps in P1, but boomkins arent brought to Mythic Archy for the P1 damage, they are brought to the fight for there nice aoe cleave they can achieve on targets with CA double dot and auto Starfall cleave.

You know you can still press Starfall with OoV equipped right? I do agree that they should equip SoC because playing with OoV+Starfall is slightly more complicated for the same(-ish) result and apart from the original burst you don't gain anything significant, but SoC is by no means required for going big dick on Infernals.

[Amantino]

The big "downside" of the addon/WA is that a lot more people need to move / make the right choice. For a "good" raid that's no problem. But a good raid also has at least one player that would move in case one group gets 4 Marks with the other strategy, so...

I just prefer strategies that are the mostsimple to memorize --> less fuck ups.

How is having to move a downside over wiping/people getting oneshot? With WA the positioning is group-based, so you're usually sent to the same spot anyways. If multiple people from same spot gets debuff, someone else will be moved to their group to avoid wipe. It's better in every single way.

[Deja Thoris]

Seriously, I can't believe a fucking mechanic that forces a person to move to one of four spots in a square shape once a minute can warrant so much discussion.

[Relapses]

Seriously, I can't believe a fucking mechanic that forces a person to move to one of four spots in a square shape once a minute can warrant so much discussion.

It's tomato/tomato, potato/potato. As I said earlier, I've used both methods and prefer pre-assigned groups even if there is the one-off chance somebody will get super unlucky and end up trying to solo soak. The number of times it happened in the 100+ pulls we had during P3 progression could be counted on one hand. I understand the WA eliminates this risk but it also opens the door for your "that guy" in the raid to potentially fuck over as many as 4 other people just because he/she can't discern shapes. And if you're still progressing on Archi this late into the tier, you probably have more than a few "that guys" in your raid so anything to make the mechanic viscerally easier would probably go a decent way towards ensuring a kill.

But that's just my 2c; it seems as if this group uses the WA and they don't tend to have problems with it...so more power to them.

[Deleted]

If you had no addons that mark people the mechanic would be very hard to organize. You would have to check the graphics mainly and see if you have people near you that glow accordingly (I don't know if it does that but it probably does) and then as a team spread to 4 different corners reliably. Don't badmouth a mechanic as easy if you have 2 addons helping you out.

[Deja Thoris]

If you had no addons that mark people the mechanic would be very hard to organize. You would have to check the graphics mainly and see if you have people near you that glow accordingly (I don't know if it does that but it probably does) and then as a team spread to 4 different corners reliably. Don't badmouth a mechanic as easy if you have 2 addons helping you out.

Addons are a given. Therefore its easy.

[Socialhealer]

guilds doing it with much worse gear doing it months ago are also better players, so ilvl is very important for less skilled players.

[Deleted]

guilds doing it with much worse gear doing it months ago are also better players, so ilvl is very important for less skilled players.

It's not accurate to label better whoever does it earlier. There are various factors. For instance a guild that raids only for 3 days but is top 150 world, is likely world 1st tier if they had the chance to raid 14 days in a row for 18 hours a day like the 1st do.

[Socialhealer]

It's not accurate to label better whoever does it earlier. There are various factors. For instance a guild that raids only for 3 days but is top 150 world, is likely world 1st tier if they had the chance to raid 14 days in a row for 18 hours a day like the 1st do.

but do they have the ability to do that? even if they had the time, could they mentally withstand leveling all the required alts to funnel fear, playing all the alts to a high standard, being focused and playing their toons to a high standard for 18 hours straight.

you make it sound like gaming at a world first level for 18 hours is a breeze, you try gaming for 18 hours a day for a week or two, and it's not 18 hours of chill fun streamer style lol look at me guys this is fun donate some money to me lets spam kappa 123. it's focused pushing for world first coming up with new tactics new strats ideas to deal with the encounter, compared to the world 150 who is using the strats and weak auras and the big wigs/deadly boss mods made by the world first guilds, it doesn't really compare does it, the world 150 guild has to put in so much less effort, let alone how much more gear the 150 guild has from weeks of farming mythic all the legendary rings and upgrades, vs method who had none.

[Amantino]

It's not accurate to label better whoever does it earlier. There are various factors. For instance a guild that raids only for 3 days but is top 150 world, is likely world 1st tier if they had the chance to raid 14 days in a row for 18 hours a day like the 1st do.

This is so far from the truth i not even funny. Your trolling for post count is getting out of hand.

I understand the WA eliminates this risk but it also opens the door for your "that guy" in the raid to potentially fuck over as many as 4 other people just because he/she can't discern shapes.

This is why you don't use markers to show where to go. From experience, using number is the best, like in Paragon's video. Text is also good, like in Rapid Eye Movement's video. I prefer numbers because it's less info to process, a single number versus two words. Markers being the worst option. It has no logic, and you need to just learn a world marker position, which can be different in other guilds or pugs. In general using numbers for such mechanics is better and easier. Zakuun using 1-5 over having to learn where five different markers are positioned. Blackhand 1-3 for Marked for Death in p3, etc. 1-2-3-4-5 is logical, green-purple-orange-blue-yellow is not. Everyone knows how to count.