Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Bapestar]

No, that isn't how I made any of my "friends" online. I stand by what I said, if you need to be forced to work with people to be social than you simply aren't social to begin with. You are giving a false analogy in stating that MMOs of over a decade ago have superior social interaction than that of current ones without any proof on the matter. That's because it's a blatant fallacy supported by your sense of nostalgia. There is no proof that restricting players promotes social interaction. You can talk about your "glory days" as much as you want, you will never achieve something like that ever again because you will never accept the faults of your own memories.

I never felt forced to be social, even in earlier expansions. You know why? Because that's how the game was meant to be played. Also wow now is not as social as it once was, idk how you can say it is. The players are to blame, but some of the features in the game are as well.

[Lady Dragonheart]

You didn't address the points I made, instead you argued about nostalgia and something about achievements. I was playing on Nostalrius last month, my memory isn't that bad even at this old age. There was a reason people were upset it went down. There was a reason people subbed to the live game were almost immediately complaining on the bnet forums. They said certain things about what was great about it. Go back and read those and try and understand what other's experiences there were. Or keep defensively regurgitating the same lines.

Pot calling the kettle black a bit, aren't you? Just because you played on Nost doesn't mean that your moot points aren't inherent to your nostalgia, you know. I could reread your post a thousand time and my answer is still both relevant and to the point. It is you who chooses to "regurgitate" your rhetoric. Also, you're making it as if Blizzard earnestly cares about your plight. I mean, seriously, they're listening now. However, listening hasn't changed their mind on the matter, if anything the notion of "Pristine Servers" is likely the farthest it will ever go, if it even gets on the table to begin with. It is beating on a long since dead horse, nothing else. Your plight is plainly pathetic as well as driven by childishly feeble notions of what people "think" will sell and what actually will. Rationalizing your complaints doesn't mean that the rest of us has to buy in to the bullshit that you've sold yourself out to.

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I never felt forced to be social, even in earlier expansions. You know why? Because that's how the game was meant to be played. Also wow now is not as social as it once was, idk how you can say it is. The players are to blame, but some of the features in the game are as well.

Are they? I have no issue talking to people in game, regardless of the expansion that I played in. If anything, it is far easier now to make friends than ever before because you aren't restricted by people being forced to group anymore. I'm not going to believe a snide, baseless notion from a random "Because that's how that game was meant to be played" bullshit. That's no reason, it's not even an example. You want to randomly cast baseless blame on anyone except yourself, then you might as well get a roulette wheel rolling.

You are either social and have no issues making friends or talking to people, or you are not and you need the game to force people to interact with you, even if you or them do not want to (or even hate to). There is no middle ground, it is simply one or the other. It is a simple definition, and you either are or are not social.

[Perkunas]

Pot calling the kettle black a bit, aren't you? Just because you played on Nost doesn't mean that your moot points aren't inherent to your nostalgia, you know. I could reread your post a thousand time and my answer is still both relevant and to the point. It is you who chooses to "regurgitate" your rhetoric. Also, you're making it as if Blizzard earnestly cares about your plight. I mean, seriously, they're listening now. However, listening hasn't changed their mind on the matter, if anything the notion of "Pristine Servers" is likely the farthest it will ever go, if it even gets on the table to begin with. It is beating on a long since dead horse, nothing else. Your plight is plainly pathetic as well as driven by childishly feeble notions of what people "think" will sell and what actually will. Rationalizing your complaints doesn't mean that the rest of us has to buy in to the bullshit that you've sold yourself out to.

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Are they? I have no issue talking to people in game, regardless of the expansion that I played in. If anything, it is far easier now to make friends than ever before because you aren't restricted by people being forced to group anymore. I'm not going to believe a snide, baseless notion from a random "Because that's how that game was meant to be played" bullshit. That's no reason, it's not even an example. You want to randomly cast baseless blame on anyone except yourself, then you might as well get a roulette wheel rolling.

You are either social and have no issues making friends or talking to people, or you are not and you need the game to force people to interact with you, even if you or them do not want to (or even hate to). There is no middle ground, it is simply one or the other. It is a simple definition, and you either are or are not social.

If that were the case they wouldn't be in talks with the Nost staff. I mean these are "rabid criminals" and Blizzard shouldn't "negotiate with terrorists" or whatever buzzphrase bullshit people have bleated in this thread. The fact of the matter is they realize they've gone astray and are looking at ways of correcting the matter or at least offering a solution that allows both camps to have the style of game they want.

[Deleted]

Made most of my best in-game friends by approaching them in capital city pseudo-afk scenarios. Friends that I still have irl, too.
Starting conversation is how you make friends more often than not. As people said, if you need to be in a stressful situation to start conversing, you aren't very social to begin with.

People have told me ingame, their teachers recommended WoW because it's a great way to learn English, practice spelling or improve social skills, I wonder if they still do that these days. WoW used to be a way to have fun and learn real life skills at the same time.

[Armourboy]

Pot calling the kettle black a bit, aren't you? Just because you played on Nost doesn't mean that your moot points aren't inherent to your nostalgia, you know. I could reread your post a thousand time and my answer is still both relevant and to the point. It is you who chooses to "regurgitate" your rhetoric. Also, you're making it as if Blizzard earnestly cares about your plight. I mean, seriously, they're listening now. However, listening hasn't changed their mind on the matter, if anything the notion of "Pristine Servers" is likely the farthest it will ever go, if it even gets on the table to begin with. It is beating on a long since dead horse, nothing else. Your plight is plainly pathetic as well as driven by childishly feeble notions of what people "think" will sell and what actually will. Rationalizing your complaints doesn't mean that the rest of us has to buy in to the bullshit that you've sold yourself out to.

So we will keep beating that dead horse then.

People can argue about social, being social, whose fault it is all they want, but what you can not argue with is the fact that MMO's were originally designed to force people to interact and play with one another. Whether it was EQ, SWG, or even early WoW, all of those games were set up with the idea that you as an individual couldn't do everything, so you had to rely on other people.

The longer MMO's have gone on over the years the less that has been the case, and the reason has been pretty apparent, gaming companies wanted to tap into an audience that MMO's were not originally designed for. Yes there were people that played alone, guildless, and without many friends, but the structure of the games then were not designed to be played that way. You could do it but you were on the fringes of the design. Fast forward to today and everything is about faster, easier, better for the individual. Outside of raiding I need no one as a core group to do anything. I can craft everything myself, I can queue for anything myself, heck most of the content is designed to be done solo.

Whether people like it or not, sometimes you need to compel people to do things with others. Early MMO designed fed off of this idea, heck SWG was completely built around this idea. WoW in a lot of ways was too in its earliest stages, although not nearly as much as a game like SWG. I'm as much of an introvert as you will ever find. However I come alive when I plug into an MMO. I wasn't that way at first, it took some of the poking proding, and game design to get me to open up and be part of the community rather than being on the outside fringes. Frankly without the design I might never have stayed and loved the MMO genre like I do. Today it's much easier to talk and just randomly be social, but it took a lot of compelling by game design to get that ball rolling.

I think if you were to go back and talk to many of the designers of MMO's they would probably agree that one of the biggest issues with MMO's is that they designed their niche right out of their own games. I think it is one reason the genre has slipped over the years, combined with the fact that just being online is no longer a niche.

[kensim]

I am an ok social person. I used to lead a server first guild in vanilla. That being said I prefer there be a solo option in WoW. Why? Cause I have been playing for over a decade and I am a dad with 3 kids. I love Warcraft and I tire of games that end, I loved Witcher 3 and then it ended. I love Warcraft, if I want to play Warcraft then WoW is my only option.

I have been the vanilla raiding elitist. I am a scarab lord. That all being said I have grown up, WoW is an amazing game aND can offer multiple forms of play, we have that today via PVP and Raiding. You can make the argument that there is endgame content for AHers and collectors. How about the same for solo players? In today's gaming environment I think it is required. Once you separate PVE and raiding, Blizzard can do amazing things.

It isn't 2007...times change.

[Armourboy]

People have told me ingame, their teachers recommended WoW because it's a great way to learn English, practice spelling or improve social skills, I wonder if they still do that these days. WoW used to be a way to have fun and learn real life skills at the same time.

It taught me how to type without looking at the keyboard, this I know. Self taught, never took a lesson, just realized I was doing it one day lol.

[Bapestar]

Are they? I have no issue talking to people in game, regardless of the expansion that I played in. If anything, it is far easier now to make friends than ever before because you aren't restricted by people being forced to group anymore. I'm not going to believe a snide, baseless notion from a random "Because that's how that game was meant to be played" bullshit. That's no reason, it's not even an example. You want to randomly cast baseless blame on anyone except yourself, then you might as well get a roulette wheel rolling.

You are either social and have no issues making friends or talking to people, or you are not and you need the game to force people to interact with you, even if you or them do not want to (or even hate to). There is no middle ground, it is simply one or the other. It is a simple definition, and you either are or are not social.

They are lol, you can play this game as a single player without talking to anyone. Just sit in a city and que up. And I did say people also share a part of the blame. My comment wasn't snide at all, mmo's are about working with others to achieve a goal, are they not?

[Perkunas]

I am an ok social person. I used to lead a server first guild in vanilla. That being said I prefer there be a solo option in WoW. Why? Cause I have been playing for over a decade and I am a dad with 3 kids. I love Warcraft and I tire of games that end, I loved Witcher 3 and then it ended. I love Warcraft, if I want to play Warcraft then WoW is my only option.

I have been the vanilla raiding elitist. I am a scarab lord. That all being said I have grown up, WoW is an amazing game aND can offer multiplexpires forms of play, we have that today via PVP and Raiding. You can make the argument that there is endgame content for AHers and collectors. How about the same for solo players? In today's gaming environment I think it is required. Once you separate PVE and raiding, Blizzard can do amazing things.

It isn't 2007...times change.

The question is why. Why does the game have to adapt for us with our lives? We who can no longer play the game the way it was meant to be played should be the ones either adapting or leaving and letting others partake in the fun that we had. Instead people demanded that Blizzard change the way the game worked in order to fit them and that's selfish. This is why a Vanilla realm is the best solution. People like you can have your 2 hour every 3 days of gameplay style game that it is now and others can have their hardcore devote my life to the game server.

[bigbaddan]

But they didn't see a "no" word in it anywhere! He even said: "we're listening!" It has gotten them all kinds of giddy now. It must mean Blizzard is already implementing those legacy servers as we speak and will be ready before legion.

Hehe. Some will fight until the end. Years down the road when WoW closes down, he'll still be fighting the good fight.

They also always said no about pve->pvp transfers. For years. Hardline no.

...

Yeah I get it. Blizzard has said changed their minds about several things. But they have also said no to many things and still continue to say no, aside from vanilla servers. A quick look through the community forum and you'll come across thousands of requests for features/changes that will never happen. Many are completely irrational but the point is that sometimes it'll always be a no.

[Edison]

I am an ok social person. I used to lead a server first guild in vanilla. That being said I prefer there be a solo option in WoW. Why? Cause I have been playing for over a decade and I am a dad with 3 kids. I love Warcraft and I tire of games that end, I loved Witcher 3 and then it ended. I love Warcraft, if I want to play Warcraft then WoW is my only option.

I have been the vanilla raiding elitist. I am a scarab lord. That all being said I have grown up, WoW is an amazing game aND can offer multiple forms of play, we have that today via PVP and Raiding. You can make the argument that there is endgame content for AHers and collectors. How about the same for solo players? In today's gaming environment I think it is required. Once you separate PVE and raiding, Blizzard can do amazing things.

It isn't 2007...times change.

And isn't it great that the current game caters to you in that way? The problem is that it doesn't for a big population that wants vanilla servers. And no one would force people to play on these Legacy servers.

[Roamingstorm]

The longer MMO's have gone on over the years the less that has been the case, and the reason has been pretty apparent, gaming companies wanted to tap into an audience that MMO's were not originally designed for.

This, right here. I'll always say it, WoW was the MMO that broke the cycle of MMO's being a "hardcore basement dwelling gamers" game. I had friends from Halo that would NEVER touch SWG, but when WoW came out they were all on board since it didn't require nearly as much time to do things from previous MMOs.

And ever since then Publishers have been attempting to follow that path, look at Destiny and Division, people today consider those "MMOs". I think the only one that really stuck to its guns was EVE.

[Perkunas]

Hehe. Some will fight until the end. Years down the road when WoW closes down, he'll still be fighting the good fight.



Yeah I get it. Blizzard has said changed their minds about several things. But they have also said no to many things and still continue to say no, aside from vanilla servers. A quick look through the community forum and you'll come across thousands of requests for features/changes that will never happen. Many are completely irrational but the point is that sometimes it'll always be a no.

They would have just told the Nost crew to stick it if that were going to be the case. We're either getting a legacy realm or some new server ruleset inspired by Vanilla values. They've done nothing but change their line since the debate started.

[Armourboy]

I am an ok social person. I used to lead a server first guild in vanilla. That being said I prefer there be a solo option in WoW. Why? Cause I have been playing for over a decade and I am a dad with 3 kids. I love Warcraft and I tire of games that end, I loved Witcher 3 and then it ended. I love Warcraft, if I want to play Warcraft then WoW is my only option.

I have been the vanilla raiding elitist. I am a scarab lord. That all being said I have grown up, WoW is an amazing game aND can offer multiple forms of play, we have that today via PVP and Raiding. You can make the argument that there is endgame content for AHers and collectors. How about the same for solo players? In today's gaming environment I think it is required. Once you separate PVE and raiding, Blizzard can do amazing things.

It isn't 2007...times change.

Here is the problem though, the entire genre was not built with solo play in mind. As I said earlier you can do it, you always have been able to, it just wasn't optimal. I know the pitfalls of growing up, but if you are looking to play online and solo I think you know just as well as I do that the genre was not built for that. It's take time and some serious design flaws to get it to the point it is now, which is way way more solo than I ever thought any MMO would ever be.

It's probably going to come off rude, so I'll say that is not my intention at all, I just don't have another way of saying it. MMO's should not, and should never have been changed to be about playing solo. There niche was playing with large amounts of people online and forcing you to be a part of a community. The minute you remove that forced interaction you might as well just be launching a console games with some updates. MMO's were not built for how you want to play them.

That isn't to say that gaming companies aren't trying like hell to design them they way you want, and that's ok. But at the same time I'm scratching my head because in many ways in their attempt to do that they are driving off the very players that were attracted to MMO's to begin with and who it was designed for. You are just swapping one group for another instead of really growing.

But hey that is just one man's opinion.

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This, right here. I'll always say it, WoW was the MMO that broke the cycle of MMO's being a "hardcore basement dwelling gamers" game. I had friends from Halo that would NEVER touch SWG, but when WoW came out they were all on board since it didn't require nearly as much time to do things from previous MMOs.

And ever since then Publishers have been attempting to follow that path, look at Destiny and Division, people today consider those "MMOs". I think the only one that really stuck to its guns was EVE.

Yup, I can say through and through that is one game that refuses to break the mold. They are going to be what they are, which is why that thing just keeps going and going even if it isn't huge.

[Perkunas]

Here is the problem though, the entire genre was not built with solo play in mind. As I said earlier you can do it, you always have been able to, it just wasn't optimal. I know the pitfalls of growing up, but if you are looking to play online and solo I think you know just as well as I do that the genre was not built for that. It's take time and some serious design flaws to get it to the point it is now, which is way way more solo than I ever thought any MMO would ever be.

It's probably going to come off rude, so I'll say that is not my intention at all, I just don't have another way of saying it. MMO's should not, and should never have been changed to be about playing solo. There niche was playing with large amounts of people online and forcing you to be a part of a community. The minute you remove that forced interaction you might as well just be launching a console games with some updates. MMO's were not built for how you want to play them.

That isn't to say that gaming companies aren't trying like hell to design them they way you want, and that's ok. But at the same time I'm scratching my head because in many ways in their attempt to do that they are driving off the very players that were attracted to MMO's to begin with and who it was designed for. You are just swapping one group for another instead of really growing.

But hey that is just one man's opinion.

Absolutely hit the nail on the head. These games work best when you are required to be part of a group and socialize. The genre has been mutating into this super casual single-player experience and there's already tons of that on the market.

[Armourboy]

And isn't it great that the current game caters to you in that way? The problem is that it doesn't for a big population that wants vanilla servers. And no one would force people to play on these Legacy servers.

Ding ding ding. Isn't that really the beauty of the idea. Those that like the modern take can still get that. Those that like the older design can still get. Those like me that like to play both can play both. I have yet to figure out why that is so hard to understand.

[Edison]

Ding ding ding. Isn't that really the beauty of the idea. Those that like the modern take can still get that. Those that like the older design can still get. Those like me that like to play both can play both. I have yet to figure out why that is so hard to understand.

Exactly, some people almost turn militant against the people who wants legacy servers. It really baffles me, why are people SO scared of legacy servers? If you don't like them don't play them. Easy as that. Me personally and a lot of friends are ready to throw money at blizzard if they allow us to legally play a vanilla realm.

[bigbaddan]

They would have just told the Nost crew to stick it if that were going to be the case. We're either getting a legacy realm or some new server ruleset inspired by Vanilla values. They've done nothing but change their line since the debate started.

Who knows? They certainly would have been justified in doing so based on how the Nost devs have acted toward Blizzard since their server was shut down. Equally as likely is they are doing it as a PR move. "Well we met with the Nost crew, liked what they did, but...no". They have said no to vanilla as recently as today. It's been a no and is still a no. Their line hasn't changed, only the tone of the answer.

[kensim]

The current game doesn't cater to me. I have no endgame, no challenge. I don't want no mechanic LFR, I just don't have time to run mythc raids. I want to be challenged. So give folks like me and endgame AND ensure that more hardcore players have the same. In fact I bet creating this new "casual" endgame, more focus can be given to making good legacy activities more difficult and gated.

With regards to genre, these things evolve. 500k people saying they want a hard game still means millions disagree, where do you think the greaterror amount of money is? In general who do you think has more money to spend, the guy who can spend 40 hours a week in game or the guy who can manage 8-10?

I am on the side of the players, but there are certain realities.

[Marakesh]

I am an ok social person. I used to lead a server first guild in vanilla. That being said I prefer there be a solo option in WoW. Why? Cause I have been playing for over a decade and I am a dad with 3 kids. I love Warcraft and I tire of games that end, I loved Witcher 3 and then it ended. I love Warcraft, if I want to play Warcraft then WoW is my only option.

I have been the vanilla raiding elitist. I am a scarab lord. That all being said I have grown up, WoW is an amazing game aND can offer multiple forms of play, we have that today via PVP and Raiding. You can make the argument that there is endgame content for AHers and collectors. How about the same for solo players? In today's gaming environment I think it is required. Once you separate PVE and raiding, Blizzard can do amazing things.

It isn't 2007...times change.

I remember first reading the defenses of LFR. So many of them said things like "well I don't have time to raid anymore, so I like to do LFR". I saw one recently about how someone didn't have time to do professions anymore so they like the garrison. Its funny because I realized its actually the live version of WoW that has a large segment playing for nostalgia. Would these folks bother with garrisons or LFR if it wasn't WoW, but instead some new mmo that released with this kind of content?

I suspect the reason WoW's subs keep falling is in some part due to younger players not replacing older ones. Sure, you're a dad of 3 now, but how come there's not a younger version of you taking your place? This is true of mmo's in general. Yeah, yeah, the kids all like fast paced moba's and phone games. Well really, phone games are much more female demographic the same way yahoo games were back in the day. The same way kids are hyper and lazy-minded back then too.

Its a shame because I really think mmo's are the most suited for online play and have the most potential. I can also tell you I had a lot of fun logging in a few hours a week on Nost leveling up. To me that was fun casual pve. I raided seriously for a year but that's not sustainable, I don't think for anyone. I'd much prefer a new game that worked off the last branch of mmo's we know did work. The completely solo mmo experience makes no sense to me. There are a lot of good single player rpg's out there right now.