Arms Legion Discussion

[Archimtiros]

My comment means, we said this last expansion, and we were 100% correct. Therefore, saying "oh, we say this every expansion" doesn't carry any weight when the very last time we had the issues we're talking about right now, the spec turned out horrible.

"This is a dangerous street crossing. You should be careful when crossing."
"Oh, every street crossing can be dangerous. You just have to look--"
"You saw someone run over by a bus here yesterday."

This isn't about threats. This is about two full years of neglect turning into evidence of something between bias and disdain. Why aren't you sick of it?

Well you kind of evaded the point; it was meant to read "every expansion people complain and talk about quitting but they rarely do, and even so, it has no effect whatsoever on the state of design".

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Save yourself the frustration, unlike me, and just move on. Took me two years to realize it, but they do not care. AT. ALL.

Well, anyone who thought they care about individual opinions, or even group-minority opinions was already kidding themselves unfortunately.

[Vonconrad]

play other games.

+1
and
/10

[Kirbydude65]

There's a couple of things I would really like to see done with the spec like Overpower Baseline, and Sweeping Strikes Execute working above 20% on other targets. Yet I'm pretty sure they're not going to happen at this point. While I'm upset we're stuck with the current iteration of Arms on the Alpha, I'm kind of Ok with it, because it's not as garbage as the WoD Arms.

[Exotath]

Posted by me on the forums
"Can you explain why Dauntless is not affecting Execute like it should for Arms? I was trying to understand how the linearity of 10-40 executes would work for 8-32 executes, but ingame it appears to be really getting a strange behavior, like not spending full 32 executes on a 32 rage bar."

CELESTALON ANSWERED
"Looks like there was a bug about how Execute consumes extra Rage with Dauntless. Fixed for next (or maybe next next) build. It should work as it sounds like you expect; normal Execute spends up to 40 to do X, Dauntless Execute spends up to 32 to do that same X."

WE ARE NOT DEAD YET!

Where is this? I cannot find his post.

[Artunias]

I don't understand why you guys are so excited about an extremely small bug fix that changes nothing lol. Also a bug that was reported months ago.

[Ferozan]

Yeah, if only that bug hadn't been reported three full months ago...

They fixed and broke that after some builds, it was doing 8 base cost + 19 rage on the variable part. It was also behaving bizarrely if you were under 32 rage, spending variable costs like 5~15.

Where is this? I cannot find his post.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...316?page=9#174

I don't understand why you guys are so excited about an extremely small bug fix that changes nothing lol. Also a bug that was reported months ago.

Happy because a DPS warrior question was answered after 4 builds of silence. Also, that bug was ReBugged on the aszuna build (explained the behavior on the feedback thread)

[Breccia]

I don't understand why you guys are so excited about an extremely small bug fix that changes nothing lol. Also a bug that was reported months ago.

I'm not "excited" but almost anything was better than dead fucking silence. This opens up the OPTION that other bugs will be fixed, or better yet, that other spec issues will at least be addressed.

[meathead]

Well you kind of evaded the point; it was meant to read "every expansion people complain and talk about quitting but they rarely do, and even so, it has no effect whatsoever on the state of design".

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Well, anyone who thought they care about individual opinions, or even group-minority opinions was already kidding themselves unfortunately.

Well you kind of evaded the point; it was meant to read "every expansion people complain and talk about quitting but they rarely do, and even so, it has no effect whatsoever on the state of design".

wow has gone from 12 million subs down to less then 5 = yes people quit by the millions and sub #'s is what blizz listens to.

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There's a couple of things I would really like to see done with the spec like Overpower Baseline, and Sweeping Strikes Execute working above 20% on other targets. Yet I'm pretty sure they're not going to happen at this point. While I'm upset we're stuck with the current iteration of Arms on the Alpha, I'm kind of Ok with it, because it's not as garbage as the WoD Arms.

if your use to eating garbage everyday and someone offers you dog food is that an upgrade?=yeah kind of but your not "fine dinning" by any means.

myself i would say fuck your "blizz" garbage and dog food give me a steak or you will never get another dime of my $.

[mysticx]

if your use to eating garbage everyday and someone offers you dog food is that an upgrade?=yeah kind of but your not "fine dinning" by any means.

myself i would say fuck your "blizz" garbage and dog food give me a steak or you will never get another dime of my $.

That's "battered warrior syndrome", it's not a pretty picture, but that's what we have come to after WoD...

[Kirbydude65]

That's "battered warrior syndrome", it's not a pretty picture, but that's what we have come to after WoD...

Not really battered Warrior Syndrome (we've been experiencing, that since TBC), more or of not being super melodramatic about this. There are problems, but it's not the worst iteration of Arms we've ever had. It also isn't the best iteration we've ever had.

There's still plenty of time for changes to be made, and I'll keep arguing for them. However if Legion were to go live tomorrow, I wouldn't be terribly upset with how Arms plays on the Alpha.

[Archimtiros]

Well you kind of evaded the point; it was meant to read "every expansion people complain and talk about quitting but they rarely do, and even so, it has no effect whatsoever on the state of design".

wow has gone from 12 million subs down to less then 5 = yes people quit by the millions and sub #'s is what blizz listens to.

Not because of class design. Don't kid yourself for even a minute.

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Not really battered Warrior Syndrome (we've been experiencing, that since TBC), more or of not being super melodramatic about this. There are problems, but it's not the worst iteration of Arms we've ever had. It also isn't the best iteration we've ever had.

There's still plenty of time for changes to be made, and I'll keep arguing for them. However if Legion were to go live tomorrow, I wouldn't be terribly upset with how Arms plays on the Alpha.

I'd still like it better than WoD.

[Artunias]

Not because of class design. Don't kid yourself for even a minute.

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I'd still like it better than WoD.

Would you like it more than the T18 version of WoD? I feel like you have to make that comparison as that's the version of the spec we'll be used to playing when Legion prepatch comes out.

I'll agree the base version of Legion is an improvement, albeit a small one, over WoD. But I don't agree that the base version in Legion is better than T18 + Class Trinket Arms.

[Archimtiros]

Would you like it more than the T18 version of WoD? I feel like you have to make that comparison as that's the version of the spec we'll be used to playing when Legion prepatch comes out.

I'll agree the base version of Legion is an improvement, albeit a small one, over WoD. But I don't agree that the base version in Legion is better than T18 + Class Trinket Arms.

Yes, because the T18 version of WoD requires:

• 4/4 Tier,
• Class Trinket,
• Dependent on an extra ability (Rend).

So yeah, it really is better. Legion allows future tier to customize the rotation further and leaves your trinket slots open.


Now if you mean Legion v T18 + class trinket, ignoring the fact that you need those items equipped, I'd still say that Legion is an improvement if only because the resets work off a multitude of different attacks, which allow for better returns on multi-target. I also think that proc on ability cast is subjectively better than auto-attack, if only because of the sense of feedback, and it gives Slam more of a reason to exist beyond "use for damage if you can't do anything better". Proc on ability cast is also more predictable, so you don't have the rarer concern of GCD overlap.

[Artunias]

Yes, because the T18 version of WoD requires:

• 4/4 Tier,
• Class Trinket,
• Dependent on an extra ability (Rend).

So yeah, it really is better. Legion allows future tier to customize the rotation further and leaves your trinket slots open.


Now if you mean Legion v T18 + class trinket, ignoring the fact that you need those items equipped, I'd still say that Legion is an improvement if only because the resets work off a multitude of different attacks, which allow for better returns on multi-target. I also think that proc on ability cast is subjectively better than auto-attack, if only because of the sense of feedback, and it gives Slam more of a reason to exist beyond "use for damage if you can't do anything better".

Fair enough. Though I do hate the idea of continuing to fill design gaps with tier bonuses or trinkets.

[Archimtiros]

Fair enough. Though I do hate the idea of continuing to fill design gaps with tier bonuses or trinkets.

It's never not going to happen.

[Secondwind]

Yes, because the T18 version of WoD requires:

• 4/4 Tier,
• Class Trinket,
• Dependent on an extra ability (Rend).

So yeah, it really is better. Legion allows future tier to customize the rotation further and leaves your trinket slots open.


Now if you mean Legion v T18 + class trinket, ignoring the fact that you need those items equipped, I'd still say that Legion is an improvement if only because the resets work off a multitude of different attacks, which allow for better returns on multi-target. I also think that proc on ability cast is subjectively better than auto-attack, if only because of the sense of feedback, and it gives Slam more of a reason to exist beyond "use for damage if you can't do anything better". Proc on ability cast is also more predictable, so you don't have the rarer concern of GCD overlap.

For what it's worth, the reset on Slam use is one of the things I really do enjoy about the current Arms setup. It ends up giving at least the illusion of control over CS proccing. For example you could just spam Slam nonstop, or you could hold off until close to rage cap and just use Slam often enough to avoid capping until CS procs so you can drop the rest of your rage inside the CS window.

Of course the lack of an actual rage dump, and the RNG nature of rage generation, make that basically a pipe dream. But it was one of the things that made me see promise in the potential of Legion arms when initial changes were being unveiled, even if it never got realized.

[Archimtiros]

For what it's worth, the reset on Slam use is one of the things I really do enjoy about the current Arms setup. It ends up giving at least the illusion of control over CS proccing. For example you could just spam Slam nonstop, or you could hold off until close to rage cap and just use Slam often enough to avoid capping until CS procs so you can drop the rest of your rage inside the CS window.

Of course the lack of an actual rage dump, and the RNG nature of rage generation, make that basically a pipe dream. But it was one of the things that made me see promise in the potential of Legion arms when initial changes were being unveiled, even if it never got realized.

Yeah, I really think they got rage for Arms and Fury backwards. You would think that Fury would constantly be generating and spending rage in small increments, while Arms would be building and dumping, and CS is even set up for this concept.

However, because of Rampage and Arms consistent rage spending, it really works out the other way around. It even calls things like Arms increased Rage Cap into question... what's the point of having a higher rage cap if the spec makes it virtually impossible to pool rage? Similar to the Arms/Fury contention again, it feels like Arms should be the one with a "shot of rage" button to reach that higher cap, not Fury.

[meathead]

Not because of class design. Don't kid yourself for even a minute.

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I'd still like it better than WoD.

Not because of class design. Don't kid yourself for even a minute.

class and game design is all their is and when people get sick or dont like them they quit.did all 7 million people quit because of class design= no but millions and millions have.

[Archimtiros]

Not because of class design. Don't kid yourself for even a minute.

class and game design is all their is and when people get sick or dont like them they quit.did all 7 million people quit because of class design= no but millions and millions have.

There's no data to correlate that. There is data to correlate the fact that tons of users flock to the game when new expansion/patch content is released and free level boosts are offered, and then leave again after the content goes stale. Such is the life of any frequently updated game.

[Rorke]

Remove Slam and make Whirlwind the primary filler.