Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

**Edison** · 2016-04-27, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by creb99

If it was only a handful of fans asking for legacy servers then there would not have been this uproar we see now. So maybe Blizzard should really think about it hard instead of continuing to say NO, NO, NO.

And nobody (in their right minds) suggest Blizzard drop everything and focus solely on legacy servers. Retail and future expansions are the most important, but surely they can make a slow start on legacy?

The problem is that people here don't realize how big the movement for legacy servers actually is as most of the people wanting legacy servers don't visit this site anymore.

**Camthur** · 2016-04-27, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by creb99

If it was only a handful of fans asking for legacy servers then there would not have been this uproar we see now. So maybe Blizzard should really think about it hard instead of continuing to say NO, NO, NO.

And nobody (in their right minds) suggest Blizzard drop everything and focus solely on legacy servers. Retail and future expansions are the most important, but surely they can make a slow start on legacy?

Blizzard themselves are the ones who can figure out just what it would take to create Legacy servers. They see all the numbers for revenues and expenses that come from developing and operating the game. WE don't see any of that. I think they are more qualified to make the decision than we are. I trust whatever decision they make. If tomorrow they decided "hey, the numbers work and we're doing legacy!" I wouldn't care as long as it didn't take away from the development of the main game. I wouldn't play it, but you folks feel free to go crazy over in Legacy land if it ever happens.

They're a multi-billion dollar corporation first and foremost. They aren't going to turn into a charity that provides game services to people at a loss. If they can't see some new idea bringing them in profit, they aren't doing it. If their estimated revenue from Legacy minus estimated cost to create and run doesn't equal "PROFIT", it ain't happenin'.

**kary** · 2016-04-27, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by Thanatoss

So should content be out long enough for those casual groups to fully clear mythic too?

That's why the final raid lasts as long as it does!

Deleted · 2016-04-27, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Camthur

Blizzard themselves are the ones who can figure out just what it would take to create Legacy servers. They see all the numbers for revenues and expenses that come from developing and operating the game. WE don't see any of that. I think they are more qualified to make the decision than we are. I trust whatever decision they make. If tomorrow they decided "hey, the numbers work and we're doing legacy!" I wouldn't care as long as it didn't take away from the development of the main game. I wouldn't play it, but you folks feel free to go crazy over in Legacy land if it ever happens.

They're a multi-billion dollar corporation first and foremost. They aren't going to turn into a charity that provides game services to people at a loss. If they can't see some new idea bringing them in profit, they aren't doing it. If their estimated revenue from Legacy minus estimated cost to create and run doesn't equal "PROFIT", it ain't happenin'.

Yes I agree. They have to make a profit.

EDIT: Or find a way to license it officially to a 3rd party like Nostalrius.

**Armourboy** · 2016-04-27, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Camthur

Blizzard themselves are the ones who can figure out just what it would take to create Legacy servers. They see all the numbers for revenues and expenses that come from developing and operating the game. WE don't see any of that. I think they are more qualified to make the decision than we are. I trust whatever decision they make. If tomorrow they decided "hey, the numbers work and we're doing legacy!" I wouldn't care as long as it didn't take away from the development of the main game. I wouldn't play it, but you folks feel free to go crazy over in Legacy land if it ever happens.

They're a multi-billion dollar corporation first and foremost. They aren't going to turn into a charity that provides game services to people at a loss. If they can't see some new idea bringing them in profit, they aren't doing it. If their estimated revenue from Legacy minus estimated cost to create and run doesn't equal "PROFIT", it ain't happenin'.

Don't disagree with that, I do however question just how much looking into it they've really done. Discussing it over lunch and drinks is one thing, sitting down and running numbers to figure out just exactly what it would cost and what the break even point is. Obviously they have done the first, I seriously doubt they have done the second, mainly because I don't think they really were that concerned with it or cared until all of this happened.

My guess they have sat around and talked, someone probably went so far as to make a list of just exactly what would need to be done as far as rebuilding and integration. I figure after seeing that list they decided it was more work than they really wanted to put into it so they just say it is too hard or not economically feasible. I doubt they sat down and figured out start up costs, employment costs, and just exactly how many players it would take to make a profit from it, not to mention what kind of fees and things they would have.

Now they may sit down and do it once Legion and Overwatch are out live, but I doubt they would have put that much effort into something they have shown no indication of wanting to do in the first place. I think that is why they checked with the lawyers on some kind of franchising so that they did basically no work and anything coming in was all profit, even if it wasn't huge.

**ls-** · 2016-04-27, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Armourboy

Don't disagree with that, I do however question just how much looking into it they've really done. Discussing it over lunch and drinks is one thing, sitting down and running numbers to figure out just exactly what it would cost and what the break even point is. Obviously they have done the first, I seriously doubt they have done the second, mainly because I don't think they really were that concerned with it or cared until all of this happened.

My guess they have sat around and talked, someone probably went so far as to make a list of just exactly what would need to be done as far as rebuilding and integration. I figure after seeing that list they decided it was more work than they really wanted to put into it so they just say it is too hard or not economically feasible. I doubt they sat down and figured out start up costs, employment costs, and just exactly how many players it would take to make a profit from it, not to mention what kind of fees and things they would have.

Now they may sit down and do it once Legion and Overwatch are out live, but I doubt they would have put that much effort into something they have shown no indication of wanting to do in the first place. I think that is why they checked with the lawyers on some kind of franchising so that they did basically no work and anything coming in was all profit, even if it wasn't huge.

You do understand that there's a separate department that does market research and shit, right? They provide collected information to other departments, when asked to do so.

**Armourboy** · 2016-04-27, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by lightspark

You do understand that there's a separate department that does market research and shit, right? They provide collected information to other departments, when asked to do so.

I'm sure they do, but would they worry about something that the higher ups have no interest in doing to begin with? I figured they have probably been spending their time on the movie, Overwatch, HotS, and Legion. Granted, they may have some number cruncher dude that just loves it so much that he did it on his own time or something, but sitting around getting market research and running numbers on something the company as a whole has no desire to do seems rather odd, even for people paid to run numbers.

**Camthur** · 2016-04-27, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by creb99

Yes I agree. They have to make a profit.

EDIT: Or find a way to license it officially to a 3rd party like Nostalrius.

In many cases in business, people pay money to a company to get a license to use their idea/product. (especially if the idea/product has significant value) Unless a third party fan initiative can work out some back end deal for giving Blizzard the majority of the profit, where is the money supposed to come from to purchase the license?

Actually, that brings up a much bigger concern for these fan groups. If Blizzard were going to license out WoW to somebody, one would think they would solicit bids or proposals. In that scenario, why would Blizzard pick a tiny group of fans over some established studio? I bet there are some independent, smaller studios out there who have way more resources and would make much better offers just to have the chance to establish their reputation by working on a known franchise.

Another concern in that scenario would be that one would think they'd limit the number of licenses they allow. Surely, not every unsanctioned server out there would be allowed into the fold. Would Blizzard then be left alone by the fanbase when they did their legal duty to stomp the unsanctioned ones out of existence or would they still face fan backlash?

**slaise1** · 2016-04-27, 07:38 AM

Blizzard PR stunt letter to their fan is like saying no in a nice way. If we are ever going to get legacy servers we as a community have to keep on pushing onwards and make our voices heard! #MakeAzerothgreatagain

**Armourboy** · 2016-04-27, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Camthur

In many cases in business, people pay money to a company to get a license to use their idea/product. (especially if the idea/product has significant value) Unless a third party fan initiative can work out some back end deal for giving Blizzard the majority of the profit, where is the money supposed to come from to purchase the license?

Actually, that brings up a much bigger concern for these fan groups. If Blizzard were going to license out WoW to somebody, one would think they would solicit bids or proposals. In that scenario, why would Blizzard pick a tiny group of fans over some established studio? I bet there are some independent, smaller studios out there who have way more resources and would make much better offers just to have the chance to establish their reputation by working on a known franchise.

Another concern in that scenario would be that one would think they'd limit the number of licenses they allow. Surely, not every unsanctioned server out there would be allowed into the fold. Would Blizzard then be left alone by the fanbase when they did their legal duty to stomp the unsanctioned ones out of existence or would they still face fan backlash?

Wouldn't get any backlash from me, then again I don't blame them for shutting Nost down. I mean I hate it happened because I was having a ton of fun, but I understand they didn't have much choice in the matter.

Heck that may be what they talked to the Nost guys about, how much it would cost and how it would go. My guess is they would want a pretty solid chunk of change that would put it out of reach of most private servers, and I never see Blizzard letting another company work on it's product again.

**ls-** · 2016-04-27, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Camthur

In many cases in business, people pay money to a company to get a license to use their idea/product. (especially if the idea/product has significant value) Unless a third party fan initiative can work out some back end deal for giving Blizzard the majority of the profit, where is the money supposed to come from to purchase the license?

Actually, that brings up a much bigger concern for these fan groups. If Blizzard were going to license out WoW to somebody, one would think they would solicit bids or proposals. In that scenario, why would Blizzard pick a tiny group of fans over some established studio? I bet there are some independent, smaller studios out there who have way more resources and would make much better offers just to have the chance to establish their reputation by working on a known franchise.

Another concern in that scenario would be that one would think they'd limit the number of licenses they allow. Surely, not every unsanctioned server out there would be allowed into the fold. Would Blizzard then be left alone by the fanbase when they did their legal duty to stomp the unsanctioned ones out of existence or would they still face fan backlash?

Wanna hear the biggest concern about licensing something like WoW retail server?

It's the easiest way to compromise their security/stability/etc. If WoW server (even compiled one) is leaked, they're are fucked. There's a whole industry that earns money by reverse engineering software and/or analysing source code to find vulnerabilities and sell them to either hackers and/or original authors of software.

Blizz already have to deal w/ it, WoW client gets torn apart, thoroughly back engineering and inspected in search of various bugs, security holes, etc, that may allow item duping for example. And now imagine how bad things are gonna be if people w/ evil intent get their hands on WoW server. It may and will open doors to much worse things that simple item/gold duping.

P.S. It's also one of the reasons why running legacy server compiled from PS source code isn't the smartest idea.

**Tackhisis** · 2016-04-27, 09:47 AM