[FIRE] Legion Beta Megathread

[Xorn]

Would that kinda waste PF since it grants 2 crits?

Going by your rotation,
"go into Combust with HS, Combust, Pyro (grants HU), PF (grants HS)", the 2nd crit from PF will be wasted as you can't get heating up without first spending HS.

What do you mean it "grants 2 crits"? It only does that if there's a secondary target that the splash hits. And it only guarantees a crit under Combust, it's not an auto-crit ability. So in a ST situation it'd be just one crit, to grant HS after Pyro's HU

So I guess I don't understand what you're proposing as an alternative. Are you saying to NOT use PF under Combust? Because that would be silly. It's the hardest hitting ability, you definitely want to use it under CDs.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

What do you mean it "grants 2 crits"? It only does that if there's a secondary target that the splash hits.

Untrue as of current. It causes the splash to primary target. Seems like a bug but it's been around since alpha started, so...

[Xorn]

Untrue as of current. It causes the splash to primary target. Seems like a bug but it's been around since alpha started, so...

Fair enough, but that doesn't change the rotation. One would still want to alternate PF and Pyro (starting with a Pyro) so as not to have to hardcast a Fireball and get as much damage into the CD as possible.

[nickseng]

What do you mean it "grants 2 crits"? It only does that if there's a secondary target that the splash hits. And it only guarantees a crit under Combust, it's not an auto-crit ability. So in a ST situation it'd be just one crit, to grant HS after Pyro's HU

So I guess I don't understand what you're proposing as an alternative. Are you saying to NOT use PF under Combust? Because that would be silly. It's the hardest hitting ability, you definitely want to use it under CDs.

Not at all. What I'm saying is maybe don't purposely hold 3 charges for Combustion, as that will almost be a waste. Going in with 1 seems optimal (and by optimal, I meant by gut feeling )

Fair enough, but that doesn't change the rotation. One would still want to alternate PF and Pyro (starting with a Pyro) so as not to have to hardcast a Fireball and get as much damage into the CD as possible.

I would start with a PF, as that is instant, and will automatically get you a HS. Going pyro-> PF will waste one of the PF crits.

[Xorn]

Not at all. What I'm saying is maybe don't purposely hold 3 charges for Combustion, as that will almost be a waste. Going in with 1 seems optimal (and by optimal, I meant by gut feeling )



I would start with a PF, as that is instant, and will automatically get you a HS. Going pyro-> PF will waste one of the PF crits.

Why would you only save one? You only get that 'extra' crit from PF *if* it's a crit. The only time you can guarantee that crit is under Combust. Saving just 1 for Combust seems silly to me, because here's a timeline of combust if you have all 3:

**Combust**
0.0- Pyro -> HU
1.5- PF -> HS
3.0- Pyro -> HU
4.5- PF -> HS
6.0- Pyro -> HU
7.5- PF -> HS
9.0- Pyro -> HU
**Combust Ends**

So that's 3 PF at 350% damage, plus the 3 splashes at 150% each and 4 Pyro at 300% each, giving us a base damage of 2700% damage, before factoring in crits or extra mastery damage.

Here's the timeline if you don't have 3 charges and start with PF:

**Combust**
0.0- PF -> HS
1.5- Pyro -> HU
3.0- FB -> HS
5.25- Pyro -> HU
6.75- FB -> HS
9.0- Pyro -> HU
**Combust Ends**

That's 1 PF at 350% + splash at 150%, 3 Pyros at 300%, and 2 Fireballs at ~135% each. Grand total: 1670%

It's clear to see that stacking those within Combustion is the clear winner in terms of burst damage, and I'd be willing to bet money that the potential "lost" crits from PF don't outweigh the damage difference in the long run. You want to stack you hardest hitters under your biggest CDs. Always.

[nickseng]

Why would you only save one? You only get that 'extra' crit from PF *if* it's a crit. The only time you can guarantee that crit is under Combust.

Yeah, I meant only during Combustion when crit is guaranteed.

Saving just 1 for Combust seems silly to me, because here's a timeline of combust if you have all 3:

**Combust**
0.0- Pyro -> HU
1.5- PF -> HS
3.0- Pyro -> HU
4.5- PF -> HS
6.0- Pyro -> HU
7.5- PF -> HS
9.0- Pyro -> HU
**Combust Ends**

So that's 3 PF at 350% damage, plus the 3 splashes at 150% each and 4 Pyro at 300% each, giving us a base damage of 2700% damage, before factoring in crits or extra mastery damage.

Here's the timeline if you don't have 3 charges and start with PF:

**Combust**
0.0- PF -> HS
1.5- Pyro -> HU
3.0- FB -> HS
5.25- Pyro -> HU
6.75- FB -> HS
9.0- Pyro -> HU
**Combust Ends**

That's 1 PF at 350% + splash at 150%, 3 Pyros at 300%, and 2 Fireballs at ~135% each. Grand total: 1670%

It's clear to see that stacking those within Combustion is the clear winner in terms of burst damage, and I'd be willing to bet money that the potential "lost" crits from PF don't outweigh the damage difference in the long run. You want to stack you hardest hitters under your biggest CDs. Always.

Shrug, you're probably right. As I said, I was going by gut feeling, and I don't like losing procs.

[whisperingsage]

There's no way to avoid losing procs during Combust, since Pyro will always give one. Just think of PF like three extra charges of IB with better damage and cleave.

Though the fact PF can proc HS by itself is definitely a plus outside Combustion.

[Deleted]

Fire is going to be viable in Legion? I really want to raid in this spec

[whisperingsage]

Tuning hasn't happened much yet so it's impossible to say for sure.

However, fire looks like it'll have a much more consistent performance with them giving a higher level of secondary stats early on in the expansion, as well as certain talents and the new combustion. Especially given it's off the gcd, so for the opener you can precast and then use it during the travel time.

Aoe looks good, especially with Phoenix's Flames able to grant Hot Streak by itself, giving lots of opportunities for instant Flamestrikes. Two charges of Inferno Blast help with spreading dots for aoe or cleave, and single target looks solid. Again, all dependent on tuning.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Two charges of Inferno Blast help with spreading dots for aoe or cleave

it would help if they hadn't made ignite spreading entirely automatic and out of the control of the player

[Deleted]

Tuning hasn't happened much yet so it's impossible to say for sure.

However, fire looks like it'll have a much more consistent performance with them giving a higher level of secondary stats early on in the expansion, as well as certain talents and the new combustion. Especially given it's off the gcd, so for the opener you can precast and then use it during the travel time.

Aoe looks good, especially with Phoenix's Flames able to grant Hot Streak by itself, giving lots of opportunities for instant Flamestrikes. Two charges of Inferno Blast help with spreading dots for aoe or cleave, and single target looks solid. Again, all dependent on tuning.

I think the Combustion change makes it clear what is the Designers' direction. They remove the factor of insane AOE so the spec becomes more down to earth, more regular AOE damage but also more room for more single target damage. It may make the spec more dull but also more useful, perhaps it will have close to the numbers of frost in most cases but also with some more focus on AOE still in it.

The entire expansion will be locking people into single specs for some times so they are trying to make all specs viable for all cases, in a relative extent. That will make the game more dull I bet when playing multiple specs but also interesting to see some more or less broken specs like this getting a fix towards a more sane approach.

[Araitik]

Gear took a heavy nerf on alpha. Crafted rings lost 100 ilvl and are now 700 ilvl. Blue gems got from 1200 <stat> to 480, and gemming bonuses are completely gone on rings.

I lost 27% crit on my 110 fire mage, from 71% to 44%. Hopefully, the raid scaling will offset that loss a little bit, but the era of full-crit Fire mage is gone

[Deleted]

It's a development platform, there is no era of fire mage yet.

[pyrostorm9001]

In regards to lvl 90 talents in legion. Is it a case of pick whatever talent you enjoy using the most? or is there a clear distinction on when to use what talent.
Such as single target always pick unstable magic, multi target always pick living bomb... and no reason to pick flame patch.

I understand that tuning isnt even close to finished, however is there a design direction for this tier of talents?

[Dizzeeyooo]

In regards to lvl 90 talents in legion. Is it a case of pick whatever talent you enjoy using the most?

that will never be the case with any talent row ever unless the talents are functionally useless or the talents are identical to each other and you choose which graphical effect you prefer

[pixelated senpai]

Gear took a heavy nerf on alpha. Crafted rings lost 100 ilvl and are now 700 ilvl. Blue gems got from 1200 <stat> to 480, and gemming bonuses are completely gone on rings.

I lost 27% crit on my 110 fire mage, from 71% to 44%. Hopefully, the raid scaling will offset that loss a little bit, but the era of full-crit Fire mage is gone

it needed to happen, ppl with rings and necks were doing stupid dmg in raids/groups.

- - - Updated - - -

In regards to lvl 90 talents in legion. Is it a case of pick whatever talent you enjoy using the most? or is there a clear distinction on when to use what talent.
Such as single target always pick unstable magic, multi target always pick living bomb... and no reason to pick flame patch.

I understand that tuning isnt even close to finished, however is there a design direction for this tier of talents?

Single target seems to favor unstable magic even though its horrible for fire soloy because it benefits from fireball only. Cleave i would assume fits living bomb since something has to live long enough to justify casting it, and then flame patch for aoe/burst aoe.

[pyrostorm9001]

My issue with the tier is that no matter what "choice" you make, all talents in that tier have some sort of aoe/cleave component but the others dont seem to offer much (if any) in the way of a single target increase.

I use the term choice here because while a talent will always be the best choice, depending on the encounter, there should still be room for the talent to be useful to some degree.

[Araitik]

I posted a talent-by-talent feedback on US forums : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743544426

Please pitch in if you have any comment

[Rothex]

I posted a talent-by-talent feedback on US forums : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743544426

Please pitch in if you have any comment

You're only one of like 3? people who post here that are actually in the Alpha, so you should post on our behalf :P

I think you raised a lot of current concerns, which is great. Hoping that some changes will happen to Blast Furnace and Scorched Earth but I think that Phoenix Reborn just needs a bit of a number increase that's all.

How do you feel Fire is doing defensively though? Considering that both Arcane and Frost get +100% Ice Barrier and other trait damage reductions, plus Arcane has Greater Invis, how does Fire stack up defensively? I just have a bit of a hate that Molten Skin + Cauterizing Blink are not as good in comparison to the other defensives Arcane and Frost got.

While I think a couple of Fire's talents need a look at, I could probably live with how they are atm. I kinda feel like they've committed too much time in the development process too them and now it's too late for Blizz to consider changing them, so kinda gave up hope :P

Edit: Forgot to add, if you can leave a comment about how Fire's Legendaries are garbage that'd be nice Not to mention that Scorched Earth becomes even further irrelevant if you got the Scorch Legendary lol.

[Deleted]

I think a good replacement of the Blink trait would be to tie the healing mechanic to Ice Barrier. Thus fire will have artifact trait benefitting IB just like the other two specs without being a copy