Will Legion be better than Wrath of the Lich King?

[Super Kami Dende]

the sooner you realize that nothing will top vanilla-wrath the better you will feel.

MoP already did that. so ...Awkward.

[Segus1992]

MoP already did that. so ...Awkward.

Let's just look at the universal metric for which expansion was the best as not to bring stupidity and subjectivity into it. By that metric, either TBC or Wrath was the best as TBC undoubtedly affected Wrath's sub numbers, just like Wrath affected Cata's and so on.

Again, by that metric, we'll never know whether Legion is better than Wrath or TBC unless Blizzard goes back on their decision not to tell the sub count anymore (which will ultimately confirm that they stopped telling it to hide the utter failure, not that it was exactly a secret before).

[schwarzkopf]

LK was still in the 'fresh' era of WoW, no matter how good Legion is - it won't match the 'feeling' of LK.

I expect it to be marginally better than MoP.

[Deleted]

I must admit, the thing that really does it for me is the fact that people like Preach are saying that there's SO many things to do at max level. That sounds really promising.

[Super Kami Dende]

Let's just look at the universal metric for which expansion was the best as not to bring stupidity and subjectivity into it. By that metric, either TBC or Wrath was the best as TBC undoubtedly affected Wrath's sub numbers, just like Wrath affected Cata's and so on.

Again, by that metric, we'll never know whether Legion is better than Wrath or TBC unless Blizzard goes back on their decision not to tell the sub count anymore (which will ultimately confirm that they stopped telling it to hide the utter failure, not that it was exactly a secret before).

Having higher subs doesn't mean the content was better.

I stand by my statement, MoP was better than Vanilla->WotLK.

[Segus1992]

Having higher subs doesn't mean the content was better.

I stand by my statement, MoP was better than Vanilla->WotLK.

Looks like you went against my suggestion as to what not to bring into the comparison.

Subs are the amount of people willing to pay for the game. Higher subs = higher amount of people willing to pay. That's the closest we'll ever be able to get to determine what was better. Let's not be stupid and think that "I liked pandas" vs "I don't like pandas" will amount to anything constructive or intelligent.

[Bizerk]

I can't believe people make these posts every expansion. WOW is never going to be close to what it was even 2-3 years ago in mop and its only going downhill even more.

[Super Kami Dende]

Looks like you went against my suggestion as to what not to bring into the comparison.

Subs are the amount of people willing to pay for the game. Higher subs = higher amount of people willing to pay. That's the closest we'll ever be able to get to determine what was better. Let's not be stupid and think that "I liked pandas" vs "I don't like pandas" will amount to anything constructive or intelligent.

The fact the main thing you referenced from MoP was "Pandas" means I doubt you'd have anything constructive to say about it anyway.

[Deleted]

No way, itll be fun for a few months but subs will probably plummet down to recordlow numbers shortly after..

It will be better than MoP though, atleat thats the feeling I get.

[Deleted]

judging by all the info, it wont be better than WoD

[WhiteEagle888]

Brilliant. You're truly brilliant.

No, it doesn't remove (a lot of) content, but it makes it irrelevant. Which, in an MMO, is essentially the same thing.

No one keeps you from doing old content - it does not have to be irrelevant, you only make it irrelevant. The whole premise that people en masse look at old content as something redundant is inherently false. This fallacy arises from the misinterpretation that old content can not to br fun, hence we don't do it. There is actually another thread of mine which aims to fix this by giving the notion of implementing scaling and world quests for older zones.

[Deleted]

Hmm, interesting topic, especially since it's a rather subjective matter.

I've actively played from WOTLK onwards (dabbled around a bit in classic and TBC, but not enough to consider it "active"), and while - objectively speaking - Cataclysm wasn't too special or better than WOTLK, it's still been the greatest expansion for me personally (RL circumstances enabling me to spend a lot of time on WoW, first and highest point of me progression raiding, great guilds etc.).

Also I'd like to point out that WOTLK has been denounced heavily at the end of the expansion ("Wrath babys, OMG Easy mode, total shit," ...). I just guess there's always a heavy amount of negativity at the end of an expansion.

That said and back on topic: I got high hopes for Legion. What I've seen so far got me positively stoked.

[nazrakin]

WOTLK is massively overrated so I sure hope so.

[Deleted]

Absolutely not, and even if it is, nostalgia will make sure it isn't.

[Pua]

Does Legion have the potential to be better than WOTLK?

Yes.

Yes, clearly it does.

It's revolutionizing endgame in a way that Wrath didn't and, so long as the new systems are designed with longevity throughout an expansion in mind, they could be the revolution that MMORPG endgame has needed for a very long time. Assuming world quests, professions, dungeons and raids all properly compliment one another throughout the life of Legion, and the class design is improved at least a little across the board, then it could certainly rival Wrath as the best expansion we've seen yet.

There are some major concerns, however.

1) It's another 14-month wait. This is despicable in itself, but will cause players to consume launch content like crack addicts.
2) The community is far smaller, far more toxic, and far less accountable. This will taint all of the content, regardless of quality.
3) They MUST sort out the car crash of content development. It's shambolic, and needs its pace dramatically increased.

Sadly, those three issues could well scupper Legion before a proverbial ball is ever kicked. The first two illnesses have no treatment, and there's no evidence to suggest Blizzard have found the cure to the third.

And when push comes to shove, a garbage community that's continually starved of content will see the expansion flunk; no matter what.

[Lumineus]

I remember how everyone hated Wrath and was absolutely sure that it was the downfall of WoW when it was current.

oh, I love how everyone is loving on wrath since mop. Back in cataclysm it was "THE WORSTZ EXPANSIONZ EVA" "YOUR ALL WRATH BABIES"

I remember a lot of no-lifers wailing about that, among other things like "welfare epics" that have been parroted by this current crop of developers, and that's why everything outside of raiding has been shit since 1/3 of the way through MoP when they started buying into this hype of a "Vanilla TBC golden age" that never existed. That's right! WoD didn't even start this trend, and I don't think Legion is doing nearly enough to correct it, so the game will continue to circle the drain until the developers get off the nuts of hardcore players who want to turn everything into a job.

[Mitak]

It will not and i can tell you why. WOTLK (and everything prior) had always amazing and sometimes (wotlk) hardcore expansion opening events. Since a lot of ppl cried like babies how hard and annoying the WOTLK is Blizzard promised to make future events less impactfull, thus ruining a special tradition. Think about it, do you even remember the pandaria event? Or the WoD one? They were so immemorable that most people have forgotten them or had to think about it to remember what they were. Now try to remember the WOTLK one. If you have played during that time, you will remember it, it would have been burned in your brain, even if you did not "willingly" participate.
So no, legion will not be better than wotlk.

[thilicen]

It COULD be, but it would largely depend on the amount of content released post-launch and especially the time between said releases. The main release is pretty damn solid from what I can see in the alpha so far.

[Segus1992]

The fact the main thing you referenced from MoP was "Pandas" means I doubt you'd have anything constructive to say about it anyway.

Wow you are just not the brightest bulb, huh? I loved MoP, fwiw.

- - - Updated - - -

No one keeps you from doing old content - it does not have to be irrelevant, you only make it irrelevant. The whole premise that people en masse look at old content as something redundant is inherently false. This fallacy arises from the misinterpretation that old content can not to br fun, hence we don't do it. There is actually another thread of mine which aims to fix this by giving the notion of implementing scaling and world quests for older zones.

A whole lot of trying to sound smart which ultimately only says "it's irrelevant but you can do it" - yes you can do it and yes scaling might help, but right now it's irrelevant and therefore boring.

[Teranzil]

Wrath will always be one of my favourite expansions. Naxx and ToC were dire but Ulduar and ICC make my top 5 list of best raids. It's a shame the difficulty dropped so drastically in Wrath though. I really liked all of the zones apart from Zul'Drak, I've never been one for the whole Troll theme! The Grizzly Hills music gets me in the feels too, I have it playing in my garrisons all the time.

Honestly, I haven't been this hyped for an expansion since Wrath. I truly believe (and hope) it will do well and make up for the mistakes of WoD. I've really liked what i've seen so far from live streams and various youtubers. The raids look well designed, the zones are visually stunning, the new animations and sound effects make me moist and there seems to be a decent amount of content outside of raiding.

None of us are going to like every single feature they implement, it's impossible to cater to every single player's needs and desires. But perhaps we could try and be a bit more positive about the things we do like? Enjoy it for what it is, a game.