Vol'jin or Sylvanas : Who do you find more capable as the Warchief?

[Raiju]

At this point, the whole "we are the unaccepted for everyone race" thing is already over. Nobody has a problem with the Forsaken, everyone who represents the Light likes them and those who don't are evil far beyond redemption and even the Alliance only hates them for invading Gilneas, not for being Undead and yeah, not even a major part of the Alliance but only the Gilneans themselves.

If that were the case both the forsaken & the blood elves would've been in negotiations to rejoin the alliance, but no it was just the blood elves.

The forsaken have never been accepted, and as far as day-to-day goes, never would be. There is 0 chance for them to be treated respectfully by humans with their appearance. Even if the faction leaders came to terms the commoners would just not. The undead would be better off living with any other alliance race, but even then it's debatable.

[Deleted]

If that were the case both the forsaken & the blood elves would've been in negotiations to rejoin the alliance, but no it was just the blood elves.

The forsaken have never been accepted, and as far as day-to-day goes, never would be. There is 0 chance for them to be treated respectfully by humans with their appearance. Even if the faction leaders came to terms the commoners would just not. The undead would be better off living with any other alliance race, but even then it's debatable.

Have the Forsaken ever tried to join the Alliance instead of killing it's members?

And is there a indication that someone has a problem with the Forsaken for being Undead? As now, the only ones who hated the Forsaken are the Scarlet Crusade and they are portrayed as the ultimate evil with less redemption than Garrosh.

[Raiju]

Have the Forsaken ever tried to join the Alliance instead of killing it's members?

And is there a indication that someone has a problem with the Forsaken for being Undead? As now, the only ones who hated the Forsaken are the Scarlet Crusade and they are portrayed as the ultimate evil with less redemption than Garrosh.

Yes, in the beginning. Since then they've been called abominations & actively killed at every turn. As mentioned above, humans cannot and will not integrate with undead. The other races would likely be the same with their own dead.

Remember that death knights while accepted are despised and treated like shit for being undead abominations. If it weren't for their strength they'd likely be beaten in dark alley ways for being different. On top ot htat they largely remain out of immediate involvement from what we see in lore, not living among the living but only fighting with them.

[Deleted]

Yes, in the beginning. Since then they've been called abominations & actively killed at every turn. As mentioned above, humans cannot and will not integrate with undead. The other races would likely be the same with their own dead.

Remember that death knights while accepted are despised and treated like shit for being undead abominations. If it weren't for their strength they'd likely be beaten in dark alley ways for being different. On top ot htat they largely remain out of immediate involvement from what we see in lore, not living among the living but only fighting with them.

That was like 10 years ago and the humans who did that became probably Scarlet Crusade and are more evil than the Burning Legion and the Void Lords together, ask Immo.

There is no hate against Undeads in todays World of Warcraft.

[Raiju]

That was like 10 years ago and the humans who did that became probably Scarlet Crusade and are more evil than the Burning Legion and the Void Lords together, ask Immo.

There is no hate against Undeads in todays World of Warcraft.

Have you made a death knight? Have you read text from ebon blade characters? That was a lot more recently, and that was commoners, our city guards, etc.

[Deleted]

Have you made a death knight? Have you read text from ebon blade characters? That was a lot more recently, and that was commoners, our city guards, etc.

Yeah, but they were Death Knights, Commanders of the Scourge. And what did the common people did? They have thrown fruits. And have spit on them, until they were accepted in the Alliance. After that, everything was fine.

[Raiju]

Yeah, but they were Death Knights, Commanders of the Scourge. And what did the common people did? They have thrown fruits. And have spit on them, until they were accepted in the Alliance. After that, everything was fine.

You think an undead could walk into stormwind without being accepted by the alliance? The fruit is bring thrown regardless. You are an abomination, that is a human reaction.

[riuminkd]

Why people think Sylvanas is good as commander? She failed in wars numerous times. Look at Gilneas, her war mashine was pushed out of city by some rebels. She lost Undercity in WotLK, she didn't even has loyalty of her troops! And Voljin was commander in retaking the Undercity.
Sylvanas' only victory is over dreadlords, and plaguelands (so much skill, mass raising!). Her defeats are Quel'thalas, Undercity, Gilneas (draw despite massive superiority in power, goals not achieved). While Vol'jin, one way or another, crushed Undercity rebels, Garrosh and Iron Horde. Seems like Voljin is more successful.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Why people think Sylvanas is good as commander? She failed in wars numerous times. Look at Gilneas, her war mashine was pushed out of city by some rebels. She lost Undercity in WotLK, she didn't even has loyalty of her troops! And Voljin was commander in retaking the Undercity.
Sylvanas' only victory is over dreadlords, and plaguelands (so much skill, mass raising!). Her defeats are Quel'thalas, Undercity, Gilneas (draw despite massive superiority in power, goals not achieved). While Vol'jin, one way or another, crushed Undercity rebels, Garrosh and Iron Horde. Seems like Voljin is more successful.

Uh the forsaken crushed gilnaes, killed their heir, and burned the city to the ground, even with the 7th Legion at their backs the worgen get pushed all the way back into gilnaes and the 7th Legion is destroyed. Quel'thalas is like laughing at somone for having to breathe, no one would have won. Voljin didn't even go inside UC when sylvanas did, so that entire point is shit. As for the rebellion, lor'themar and sylvanas are the only reason he didn't die

[Deleted]

Uh the forsaken crushed gilnaes, killed their heir, and burned the city to the ground, even with the 7th Legion at their backs the worgen get pushed all the way back into gilnaes and the 7th Legion is destroyed. Quel'thalas is like laughing at somone for having to breathe, no one would have won. Voljin didn't even go inside UC when sylvanas did, so that entire point is shit. As for the rebellion, lor'themar and sylvanas are the only reason he didn't die

A unit of the 7th Legion. We didn't even saw Wyrmbane on the Main Island once.

And the Worgen nearly defeated the Forsaken, that's why Sylvanas had to kidnap Crowleys Daughter. And the last people we saw in Gilneas were Worgen, back in the Rogue Quest.

[Friendlyimmolation]

A unit of the 7th Legion. We didn't even saw Wyrmbane on the Main Island once.

And the Worgen nearly defeated the Forsaken, that's why Sylvanas had to kidnap Crowleys Daughter. And the last people we saw in Gilneas were Worgen, back in the Rogue Quest.

Learn your goddamn lore, the forsaken had literally crushed them at this point, Crowleys Daughter was to finish the fight with less casualties. And then uvg states after the rogue quest that the city is rubble, burnt ruins.

[Deleted]

Learn your goddamn lore, the forsaken had literally crushed them at this point, Crowleys Daughter was to finish the fight with less casualties. And then uvg states after the rogue quest that the city is rubble, burnt ruins.

It's abounded. The rest is only the wet Sylvanas dream you get while you listen Asking Alexandria.

[Graden]

It's abounded. The rest is only the wet Sylvanas dream you get while you listen Asking Alexandria.

Let's be honest, the Gilneans were losing the fight in the end. Sylvanas wanted to finish the job quickly using Crowley's daughter not only to end the battle with less casualties. Even though he was losing ground, Crowley and his forces were never going to surrender, they were all willing to die trying. Sylvanas was well aware of that, so using Lorna to cut a deal to end this shit was a pretty smart move.

About Gilneas you'll have to wait for Legion to see what Genn is up to.

[Deleted]

Let's be honest, the Gilneans were losing the fight in the end. Sylvanas wanted to finish the job quickly using Crowley's daughter not only to end the battle with less casualties. Even though he was losing ground, Crowley and his forces were never going to surrender, they were all willing to die trying. Sylvanas was well aware of that, so using Lorna to cut a deal to end this shit was a pretty smart move.

About Gilneas you'll have to wait for Legion to see what Genn is up to.

They were losing the Fight in Silverpine Forrest, but Worgen held Gilneas at the end of Cataclysm and we still don't know hew they disappeared, only that Gilneas is abounded now.

And this victory is nothing I would be proud about, if I was Gilneas. Being pushed back by a nation that was disrupted by Civil War, then Worgen Curse and then Cataclysm and who pushed the Forsaken nearly to Tirisfal in the aftermath...that's hard.

[Combatbutler]

They were losing the Fight in Silverpine Forrest, but Worgen held Gilneas at the end of Cataclysm and we still don't know hew they disappeared, only that Gilneas is abounded now.

We know Gilneans were there during the fangs of the father questline, bound by dragon blood, Wrathion speculated that they might die because of it and sinceit is later listed as in ruins and abandoned it is extremely likely they all died.

And this victory is nothing I would be proud about, if I was Gilneas. Being pushed back by a nation that was disrupted by Civil War, then Worgen Curse and then Cataclysm and who pushed the Forsaken nearly to Tirisfal in the aftermath...that's hard.

The forsaken fought on many fronts over the years and had lost vast amounts of people, they were stretched thin. This changed during cataclysm. Not to mention all forsaken care about is winning.

[Graden]

They were losing the Fight in Silverpine Forrest, but Worgen held Gilneas at the end of Cataclysm and we still don't know hew they disappeared, only that Gilneas is abounded now.

And this victory is nothing I would be proud about, if I was Gilneas. Being pushed back by a nation that was disrupted by Civil War, then Worgen Curse and then Cataclysm and who pushed the Forsaken nearly to Tirisfal in the aftermath...that's hard.

It's true that we still don't know how and why they completely abandoned it. Probably they had to leave it behind for the time being because most of the area was full of plague? I don't know, perhaps Legion will shed some light on that matter. Anyway, we have evidence that Genn will probably make a move towards Gilneas soon, so that's all that matters to me.

Indeed, at that point Gilneas was no were near it's full power, it was pretty much butchered by many catastrophic events. But still, they were Worgen now. Worgen are killing machines, specifically effective against the Forsaken. And it was not only the Gilneas Liberation Front that was fighting, they boosted their Worgen numbers with Ivar's pack and the surviving Southshore population, by offering them Worgen blood. Along with the arrival of the 7th Legion, Stormwind's most elite force, i can't see how they were an easy opponent to defeat.

[Combatbutler]

It's true that we still don't know how and why they completely abandoned it. Probably they had to leave it behind for the time being because most of the area was full of plague? I don't know, perhaps Legion will shed some light on that matter. Anyway, we have evidence that Genn will probably make a move towards Gilneas soon, so that's all that matters to me.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Assassinate_Creed

Creed is finished. The Gilneans who followed his lead are on their own now - assuming his corrupted draconic blood works its way out of their system without killing them.

Either way they're no longer a concern of ours.

[Graden]

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Assassinate_Creed

Creed is finished. The Gilneans who followed his lead are on their own now - assuming his corrupted draconic blood works its way out of their system without killing them.

Either way they're no longer a concern of ours.

Yeah, probably all dead by now, or most of them at least.

[Al Gorefiend]

I'd prefer Johnny cash over that shit. There is a time and a place for asking Alexandra and that is the 6th grade

All metal and screamo tbh. I'm so edgy these bands totally speak to my soul /cringe.

Freshman year of highschool I was listening to all that anger shite. Talk about the blunder years.

[Al Gorefiend]

Vol'Jin won the war in Draenor, he already has that as a major decisive victory during his brief time as Warchief. He gave the command to establish the shipyard (curse you Vol'Jin...) and push into Tanaan with Khadgar's suggestion. The faction info for Vol'jin's headhunters states "seeking to protect Azeroth with a decisive victory on Draenor. Warchief Vol'Jin assembled champions to establish a foothold in Tanaan to overthrow Gul'dan".

He's capable of leading and making military decisions. But asking which of the two is better is opinion, fanon and headcanon since we've seen Vol'Jin do little as warchief and Sylvanas do nothing.

Since I've already posted as the first reply to this thread stating my opinion I'll expand on it a little. Warchief is more than military commander - all past warchiefs had someone else for this position (Saurfang, Nazgrim, Malkorok etc.) Warchief is half giving the command and half holding the politics of the faction together. And for that reason Vol'Jin is way more qualified. The Horde loves him, even Lor'themar has respect for him and Sylvanas commemorated his rebellion despite showing racism.