‘Game of Thrones’ Accused of Promoting Rape Culture

[nextormento]

Game of Thrones nowadays is just a succession of unmotivated shocks wrapped up in boobs and dragons. Which is a shame because the books and the early seasons are stellar.

I don't think it's evolved one bit from the 1st season in that regard.
Nor the books, in my opinion. But motivations are explored in 1st person in the books, whereas the show doesn't do that. Ultimately I don't think the two products should ever be compared or measured in the same scale: they're two different mediums with very different techniques of delivery and incredibly different target audiences.

[schwarzkopf]

Even marital rape which is technically legal in Westeros is seen as a bad thing.

The concept of 'marital-rape' is a contradiction in that kind of society. Seriously - people are complaining about what was done to Sansa, but not to Theon ?

Stick your dick in your wife and the world cries a million tears, cut the dick of a man and no-one bats an eyelid.

The world seems a topsy-turvy place.

[McFuu]

Why is he spilling his secrets and motivations to his prostitutes though? Plus why is he micromanaging his brothels anyway? In the books (yeah I know, I'm that guy) brothels are just one of LF's many investments. He doesn't run brothels. So why did the show decide to make him a pimp in the first place? To show more boobs obviously. And there's nothing wrong with a bit of fan service, but it's a little grating when it's completely shoe-horned and squeezed into a show which has limited time to tell a huge tapestry of plot lines.

That said, nowadays I kind of long for the days of harmless gratuitous fanservice.

Because the show makes its on plot based off the books, and the show is planning on continuing that trend. Also it's the show, its meant to be visually entertaining. As interesting as the books may be, it's a different story telling medium which has different requirements to be entertaining.

You also have time constraints. You need to learn a lot about a person quickly. Having Little Finger make his childhood speech while in the brothel directing the whores tells you a lot about his cold calculating nature and his lack of emotional attachment. If you jumped off your "books omg" tower, maybe you would realize that chances are LF knew Ramsy was a huge asshole (considering he had a reputation) and put Sansa there for just that reason.

[ro9ue]

The writing is definitely in line with the show's quality, but that's not a good thing. Game of Thrones nowadays is just a succession of unmotivated shocks wrapped up in boobs and dragons. Which is a shame because the books and the early seasons are stellar.

Lol what? Do you even watch the show?

[Deleted]

Within the context of the show, what happened to Sansa wasn't even rape. If people look up the laws for more than a hundred years ago or so, it was called conjugal rights. It is only in the more enlightened recent history that it became marital rape.

You know that marital rape only became illegal in all 50 states by 1993 right? There are people alive today, pretty young people, who could have been raped by their husbands and it would have been considered legal. Would you tell them they weren't raped? Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's acceptable.

[lonely zergling]

Even in that case they're wrong. Westeros isn't a-okay with rape. Even marital rape which is technically legal in Westeros is seen as a bad thing. But also, the show is not made by Westerosi. It's made by 21st century earth people for a 21st century earth audience. The director insisted that the scene became consensual. That's rape apology plain and simple and I really wish the most popular show on television wasn't setting that example.

Cersei scene wasnt rape, she was just worried that they get cought as they were in a public setting. The "I dont care" from jaimie actually had a silent (if we get cought) behind it, like "black lives matter (too)". Context is everything.

[XangXu]

I think it is more a case of what you find entertaining.

Do you find a story of fantasy and political intrigue entertaing?

Do you find rape entertaing?

Personally I am not sure why they needed to include it at all. We get it, the guy is evil.

[Mehrunes]

It's not about how bad the rape is, it's about how the rape is treated. Jeyne's rape is horrific, even more so than Sansa's rape in the show. But at least that scene is part of a logical plot. Nothing about the Winterfell plot line in Season 5 made any sense. Why does LF arrange this marriage before he's seen how things play out between Bolton and Stannis? Why doesn't he know that Ramsay is a complete psycho? Why does Roose accept LF's offer? Any legitimacy he gets out of the marriage is moot because he's committing treason by marrying Ramsay to Sansa, and hence the marriage must be a secret. And the rape is pretty much the entirety of Sansa's story in Season 5. Winterfell in ADWD is often regarded as some of Martin's best writing. There's horror, murder mystery, political intrigue, awesome side characters like Wyman Manderly. Showing Ramsay raping his wife was pretty much the least essential part of that. D+D read ADWD and that was all they wanted to portray.

If you paid close attention instead of being triggered by non-existent bullshit like rape culture, you'd have noticed that they scraped almost the entirety of the North's storyline only to focus on Boltons, Night's Watch and Wildlings and also introduced Sansa there because they didn't like what was in store for Eyrie storyline. Or Martin didn't tell them about it since he didn't cover how he plans the story to end in such detail and they didn't have anything to go on. You know, with Stannis dying and the like. And if you paid really, really close attention, you'd have noticed that earlier seasons didn't introduce the Frey characters that Manderly made into pies, removing his potential for badassery from the show. So it left Boltons and Sansa. Which makes their marriage the most essential part of that by default. And their sex. From the thread back then:

TIL if a woman willingly has sex she doesn't enjoy to further her position and/or wealth, it's rape.

[Katie N]

It's neat that you live under a rock, but maybe consider reading a news article once a month or something, just as a taster?

I read news every day but don't find anything for supporting existance of rape culture.

[Deleted]

Another Tennisace troll topic.

I knew it was you before I saw it.

[Deleted]

Because the show makes its on plot based off the books, and the show is planning on continuing that trend. Also it's the show, its meant to be visually entertaining. As interesting as the books may be, it's a different story telling medium which has different requirements to be entertaining.

You also have time constraints. You need to learn a lot about a person quickly. Having Little Finger make his childhood speech while in the brothel directing the whores tells you a lot about his cold calculating nature and his lack of emotional attachment. If you jumped off your "books omg" tower, maybe you would realize that chances are LF knew Ramsy was a huge asshole (considering he had a reputation) and put Sansa there for just that reason.

IIRC D+D confirmed that LF had no idea what Ramsay was capable of. Maybe I'm misremembering though, but in any case that's hardly the only reason the plot makes no Sansa.

[schwarzkopf]

Would you tell them they weren't raped? Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's acceptable.

The problem is - in that era (not 50 years ago, but hundreds of years ago) - it was not only acceptable, but expected.

Sort of like slavery, even Lincoln owned slaves. It is wrong now, but it was acceptable at the time - UNTIL things changed.

Marital rape as a concept didn't even exist - it was like saying a square circle, it was a contradiction in terms.

[Skayth]

http://www.thewrap.com/game-of-thron...e-pornography/

How do you feel about this?
Is there enough control on these cable shows?

Nope, they arent. what they show in the show is simply what happens in war, as barbaric and disgusting as it can ever be. The books take it a step further. As a women, there is no such thing as rape culture. Rape is never sanctioned by law, so how can there be a culture when the law is hammered down on actual accusations?

And Controlling "cable" shows? They already do, in censoring cable programing. HBO is not cable programming, but an optional channel/streaming site to be bought. If Game of Thrones wants to be X rated, let it be.

[schwarzkopf]

Personally I am not sure why they needed to include it at all. We get it, the guy is evil.

It is about the forging of Sansa, the same story was happening to Arya - they are both being forged into weapons. The forging process isn't a pretty pleasant process - just ask the sword.

None of it was about Ramsay - he is a side character in the greater picture.

[Deleted]

Lol what? Do you even watch the show?

Mostly out of curiosity at this point. I loved the first three seasons, season four was okay, it's only season 5 I really didn't like. ASOIAF is my favourite series of books so I'm going to watch just to see how things go down.

[Adam Jensen]

So . . .

Let me get this straight. We get a guy who gets castrated, one who gets his face crushed, one who gets poisoned, another who gets shot in the belly while taking a shit. We get a mother who's throat is slit after watching her son and daughter-in-law get stabbed to death months after her husband is beheaded. We get one guy gored by a bull. Another one stabbed multiple times in the belly (for the watch.) Another murdered by a shadow. We see men who have been flayed by the Boltons. A woman getting burnt to death. A man smothered. Another gets stabbed in the eyes before killed. A daughter poisoned. A boy thrown off a tower. A brother and sister fucking each other.

And people are upset over one, off-camera, rape scene. From a guy notorious for his cruelty.

[nextormento]

Even in that case they're wrong. Westeros isn't a-okay with rape. Even marital rape which is technically legal in Westeros is seen as a bad thing.

I know. And the characters around it are not making light of it (in the case of Sansa, we see Reek's face precisely to convey your point).
On how consensual it is: marital rape is legal because the espouses -legally- give consent through the marriage.
It's still consistent in-universe.

21 century audiences are aware of this dichotomy. Some people anchored in the past, like the OP, still believe fiction to translate well into reality: that's gullibility-apology plain and simple.

[Adam Jensen]

And finally, if you are offended by the content of A Game of Thrones, then there's a simple solution that works for everyone:

Don't fucking watch it.

[Deleted]

The problem is - in that era (not 50 years ago, but hundreds of years ago) - it was not only acceptable, but expected.

Sort of like slavery, even Lincoln owned slaves. It is wrong now, but it was acceptable at the time - UNTIL things changed.

Marital rape as a concept didn't even exist - it was like saying a square circle, it was a contradiction in terms.

First of all - what era? Westeros is not a historical setting. It is based on medieval europe. And yes one of the ways in which it is based on medieval europe is that marital rape is legal. Now I'm no scholar on medieval sexual practices, but that's hardly relevant because Westeros is not a real setting. And in Westeros marital rape is legal, but it's not considered a-okay. Brides are pressured into consummating the marriage and are groomed to accept it (which is fucked up in and of itself). But pretty much no one in Westeros would consider what Ramsay did to Sansa to be okay.

[Mehrunes]

Well when a lot of people outright don't know what constitutes rape apparently, yeah that seems like normalising it to me.

It's a rather weird way to say "I didn't actually read the Wikipedia article on what normalization means in sociology that you linked". Then again what's there to expect from someone who sees rape culture in the criminal justice system. Also, gotta love the flip flopping. A minute ago you were going on how rape culture totes isn't about rape being acceptable. That falls under normalization. Which you'd know if you read the link. But that would ruin the narrative (which, again, goes against the feminist theory, so you're actually a feminist heretic).

Learning how to become a political player and eventually becoming the low-key second in command of one of the seven kingdoms is doing nothing significant? If they really had to flesh out her plot why not actually flesh out Sansa becoming a political player? Maybe she goes to winterfell in a Wyman Manderly esque role to orchestrate revenge on the Boltons, rather than as a bargaining chip? Or maybe just side line her for a season. They where fine getting rid of Bran for a season. Why not Sansa too?

And Eyrie was disjointed from the rest of the story. She'd have the same impact on the overall storyline if she learned it wherever the hell Rickon is chilling. Bad why spread the story so thin and spend extra money on additional sets, and instead merge the storyline with one of the main settings. Nah, that is too reasonable an expectation. It must be rape culture.

I think the reason they did it was just because they thought that it was what would be most shocking. And they weren't wrong, but good writing isn't always just taking the most shocking route.

Yes, and they planned it from season two. They didn't jsut think it would make sense for the purposes of the show to have Sansa marry Ramsay and take Jeyne's role and reduce the amount of storylines (and the related costs) needed.