[Pre-Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Kazilro21]

And yes, the high crit shows some fun numbers, but not at all useful for anything >.>

I wouldn't say it's not useful at all the entire point of testing the encounters is seeing all the abilities possible. If some questionable gear that blizz made available lets you see a phase in the fight you wouldn't have seen without it then it becomes useful. I like momentum as a talent but hate the aspect of animation cancelling on FR. That said I probably cant see myself using it on progression where a bad FR can easily lead to your death.

[Vanyali]

I wouldn't say it's not useful at all the entire point of testing the encounters is seeing all the abilities possible. If some questionable gear that blizz made available lets you see a phase in the fight you wouldn't have seen without it then it becomes useful. I like momentum as a talent but hate the aspect of animation cancelling on FR. That said I probably cant see myself using it on progression where a bad FR can easily lead to your death.

You can do that without the broken gear, and the fact that half the final phases aren't working at all is a pretty strong indication that they didn't intend for people to actually get there.

All it does is inflate numbers and mechanics on a class-side that will end up with classes getting nerfed for behavior that's impossible to emulate in any other situation, as well as completely removing any and all ability to see how things are working in practice (ie, demon hunters just hitting chaos strike because lolcrit).

[Etrnlaffair]

Broken gear actually makes testing harder. It could easily make the Devs over tune something because their chosen testers are using exploits on the testing side. So I'd probably expect a retest of most of the bosses after they nerf the stupid broken gear. Just because all of the tests I have seen have been people using the douchey gear.

[Vanyali]

Broken gear actually makes testing harder. It could easily make the Devs over tune something because their chosen testers are using exploits on the testing side. So I'd probably expect a retest of most of the bosses after they nerf the stupid broken gear. Just because all of the tests I have seen have been people using the douchey gear.

Boss health is already purposefully inflated because they don't want you to be able to kill them. :| So yeah, health tuning is going to require another pass.

[Etrnlaffair]

Boss health is already purposefully inflated because they don't want you to be able to kill them. :| So yeah, health tuning is going to require another pass.

I watched Jinzee (ProperBird)'s guild kill the bridge one super fast because of the douche gear...

Not just health tuning honestly. Mechanics are sometimes based on health tuning, but some are also hp and time based... And they generally try and tune it so mechanics don't pop at certain times together except in rare circumstances. So that will change boss timers also. It just defeats the entire purpose of testing when you exploit an alpha bug to show off big numbers. Especially when an entire raid does it.

[Dopefreshx]

Boss HP and the like are easy to change, I think their goal is to make sure that mechanics are actually functioning. To say they didn't intend for people to reach the final phases of bosses is just silly. Blizzard aren't naive, they know for a lot of groups that any heroic encounter is going to be a complete pushover and should expect it to be pushed quite low if not killed, same goes for the early mythic bosses. Unless a fight is completely broken they don't want to be testing it a second time.

I wouldn't get too worked up about class balance issues atm, it's pretty clear the numbers aren't even close to ok right now with how far apart the different specs are.
If you think the rings are bad, just wait until character copies are live. Things like legendary items, op set bonuses, cunning of the cruel, etc. have all been much bigger issues in the past.

[Vanyali]

Boss HP and the like are easy to change, I think their goal is to make sure that mechanics are actually functioning. To say they didn't intend for people to reach the final phases of bosses is just silly. Blizzard aren't naive, they know for a lot of groups that any heroic encounter is going to be a complete pushover and should expect it to be pushed quite low if not killed, same goes for the early mythic bosses. Unless a fight is completely broken they don't want to be testing it a second time.

The last phases often aren't doing much of anything, or are *very* weirdly tuned in comparison to the rest of the fight. In prior testing they've outright stated health is doubled to prevent you from killing them, and doubling means you get to the halfway mark from where you *should* get.

This isn't saying anyone that uses the rings is an awful person or anything - you do whatever is working for your testing. I just personally don't find it that useful in the scope of the testing myself

[wordup]

I'd disagree health is intentionally inflated at the moment by the sheer amount of kills (JCing aside). I think it's more that there are a number of extremely overtuned specs (Havoc being one of them) that is inflating the damage done relative to what is expected in final tuning.

[enak101]

Well we saw with Mythic Ursoc, guilds got ridiculously close on the first few pulls, we had him under 50% in like 1:30-2:00 probably and then bam suddenly he was on like 80% health on pull #4 or #5 when they changed his health pool on the fly.

At the same time though, I don't see too much wrong with pushing yourself as much as you can for testing, unless it's so drastic that the entire strategy will be different on live. But IMO most of the time the extra gear is just helping people push phases and see more mechanics in the limited time you have on the boss. While HP is inflated from live, gear and stats is probably inflated even more so at the moment.

The other thing you should keep in mind is, play around in 5 mans and other content on the alpha in more realistic gear, if you want a realistic version of the spec. I'd like to know how much crit % havocs will have in like 5 man heroic gear going into the 1st raid. 30%? Or more maybe. Blizz aren't super clear on numbers they want with this new stat scaling idea.

[Warstar]

Well we saw with Mythic Ursoc, guilds got ridiculously close on the first few pulls, we had him under 50% in like 1:30-2:00 probably and then bam suddenly he was on like 80% health on pull #4 or #5 when they changed his health pool on the fly.

At the same time though, I don't see too much wrong with pushing yourself as much as you can for testing, unless it's so drastic that the entire strategy will be different on live. But IMO most of the time the extra gear is just helping people push phases and see more mechanics in the limited time you have on the boss. While HP is inflated from live, gear and stats is probably inflated even more so at the moment.

The other thing you should keep in mind is, play around in 5 mans and other content on the alpha in more realistic gear, if you want a realistic version of the spec. I'd like to know how much crit % havocs will have in like 5 man heroic gear going into the 1st raid. 30%? Or more maybe. Blizz aren't super clear on numbers they want with this new stat scaling idea.

With 825 gear won't be hard at all to get 30% in 2 stats and then less in others.

But you also have a chance to get that Titanforged gear which throws a kink in gearing up for raiding since it's ilv is way higher than normal raid gear. No clue on how that works and only seen a few piece in heroics but if it's technically possible to get full Titanforged gear then people going to have to farm heroics a stupid amount to be competitive for the first raid.

[Ilir]

Just a quick question, haven't really followed Demon hunter that much but... what does the rotation look like atm ? and which talents ?

edit : saw the first post and the rotation posted. nvm

[Sangomah]

At 823 ilvl i got 43% crit and 23% mastery.

I did not cheese yday, but had skorp pulls on 750-800k even so. The devs are prob aware of the jc items, but looking at the community, they do not seem to Know

[nox597]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up in the 126 pages so far, but I am curious... I know people have said leveling without the full talents toolkit feels a little weak, but how are Demon Hunters at level 100? If/when they become available with the prepatch, and are playable for a month or more, do they have enough depth/strength to be interesting for that introductory period of time? Do they give a strong positive first impression as a class at 100?

I'm somewhat worried that people will try them at the low level, incomplete point, and just dismiss them entirely out of hand...

[Raiju]

I'm somewhat worried that people will try them at the low level, incomplete point, and just dismiss them entirely out of hand...

Think of it as less competition

[Ribesal]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up in the 126 pages so far, but I am curious... I know people have said leveling without the full talents toolkit feels a little weak, but how are Demon Hunters at level 100? If/when they become available with the prepatch, and are playable for a month or more, do they have enough depth/strength to be interesting for that introductory period of time? Do they give a strong positive first impression as a class at 100?

I'm somewhat worried that people will try them at the low level, incomplete point, and just dismiss them entirely out of hand...

On lvl 100 you have access to all active abilities (if we take aside the two long cd talents, nemesis and chaos blades) but without the other talents and artifact traits there is no real synergy between these skills. So depth, not really. Strength is just a matter of numbers. But there seems to be a HFC set and Archimonde trinket for DH, maybe they will bring some depth. We will see.

[zurm]

Think of it as less competition

Less competition means a smaller community, which potentially means less people pushing rankings and working on theory. It's bad for the health of the class' community. Plus, having other DH's to compete with will only make you try harder

[Vanyali]

At 823 ilvl i got 43% crit and 23% mastery.

I did not cheese yday, but had skorp pulls on 750-800k even so. The devs are prob aware of the jc items, but looking at the community, they do not seem to Know

They know, they're fixing it next patch.

[Raiju]

Less competition means a smaller community, which potentially means less people pushing rankings and working on theory. It's bad for the health of the class' community. Plus, having other DH's to compete with will only make you try harder

Anyone with a hope of contributing to a community can manage to read a greyed out talent tree.

[Sangomah]

They know, they're fixing it next patch.

I meant the community dosent Know

[Ilir]

Chaos blade/anihilation aren't working properly right ? I mean when they crit.

I actually enjoy DH a lot more than before. Especially thanks to the talents. I still think they should all be unlocked at level 100 but whateve's.

Oh by the way, maybe it's because of the alpha but ... you finish the DH starting quests at level 101... maybe I'll wait for legion to hit before finishing the questline. (Tho it will be changed most likely)