Legion - Subtlety discussion

[elfporn]

Posted by Lørentz
How is Fortune's Bite(Artifact Trait) supposed to work with Shadow Techniques. Will it allow passive to proc from 1st or/and 2nd attack after previous one?


It's a currently an increase that results in X% more procs per minute, but in an obviously hard to understand way. We're going to change it next build to be just an X% chance to generate 2 CP.

lorentz got an answer!

[Cebel]

Honestly I think the spec would play a lot better with symbols of death removed and the damage redistributed to active abilities. it is just boring having to juggle passive damage increases.

Or they could just make the PvP talent that makes symbols of death auto cast on entering stealth/shadow dance a artifact perk, or just make it so thats how the damn spec works. I mean the entire spec is about being stealth and jumping around like a crazy ninja doing massive burst dmg. Instead our burst is shit because we have to be like " AYYYYLMAO JK WASTING 1/3 OF MY BURST WINDOW PUTTING UP A BUFF WOO! "

[kalaratic]

lorentz got an answer!

i think it's just cause they are literally answering every questing on the thread. would be pretty funny if next build that is the only change for sub.

[Lorentz]

lorentz got an answer!

I also got a clarification:

Posted by Lørentz
To clarify Fortune's Bite behavior: it acts like 2 separate rolls - first one to decide which attack after previous proc will grant combo points(right now uniform 3-5 attack) and second one to decide how many combo points will proc (X% - 2 CP, (1-X)% - 1 CP)?

Correct.

[Deleted]

Cheers to the guys over at Sub's Alpha thread. There's so many of them writing amazing feedback, constantly explaining how they found by their experience that abilities like SoD and SN don't work, and offering loads of advice and suggestions that stay in line with Blizzard's class fantasy idea and with the general concept that they have set for the spec this expansion.

To constantly try to rewrite their feedback so it's not just copypasta, trying to actively fulfill what is the true role of an Alpha Tester which is to test things and help improve the game... Only to be ignored patch after patch while still trying their best to improve the spec, with zero explanations given. This feels disrespectful to me. Being selected for Alpha may be a privilege, but so it is to have people who actively pay to play the game take their time to try and help build a better game, while actually providing great and insightful feedback.

I don't even care anymore what is Blizzard's vision for Sub. If they want Sub to be a pure ST spec, with an inconsequential AoE ability and a boring maintenance buff, so be it. But let us know. Blizzard is expected to at least face the Alpha testers and aknowledge their help, even if they disagree with it. If their constant feedback is indeed being pondered, let them know. If Blizzard actually expects to implement changes based on their recent feedback, let them know. If Blizzard disagrees with their feedback and still feels the current Alpha Sub is truly the Sub they envision, let them know. Now, to constantly open new feedback threads patch after patch, all the while not aknowledging people's effort is just plain rude.

[kalaratic]

But let us know. Blizzard is expected to at least face the Alpha testers and aknowledge their help, even if they disagree with it. If their constant feedback is indeed being pondered, let them know. If Blizzard actually expects to implement changes based on their recent feedback, let them know. If Blizzard disagrees with their feedback and still feels the current Alpha Sub is truly the Sub they envision, let them know. Now, to constantly open new feedback threads patch after patch, all the while not aknowledging people's effort is just plain rude.

ya ur preaching to the choir, their lack of communication is pretty disgusting. if i got into the alpha i would prob have it removed right away cause the first thing i would do is call out every single dev who has posted in the alpha forums for the last month for being so fucking quiet about sub and just drill into them.

[Mafic]

ya ur preaching to the choir, their lack of communication is pretty disgusting. if i got into the alpha i would prob have it removed right away cause the first thing i would do is call out every single dev who has posted in the alpha forums for the last month for being so fucking quiet about sub and just drill into them.

That would be counterproductive.

I would head to twitter (aka Blizzard's ivory tower) and call them out for dragging their feet on class design yet again...just like they did with WoD. Overall, I think their communication in Legion has improved from WoD but it is still severely lacking with what the general direction the game is heading towards.

To me Sub in Legion is a for all intents and purposes a sustained DPS spec and there is little wiggle room to try to finesse a burst window with the way the shadow dance bar works, shadow dance duration, and SoD.

This is why I am surprised people believe Outlaw will be at the bottom of single target DPS. Roll the Bones can be designed to have less variance yes or tuned to offer consistent DPS over a long period of time. But the sheer amount of cool downs Outlaw has in short window coupled with Roll the Bones and cleave is simply going to overwhelm the steady as it goes...turtle pacing of Legion Sub. Maybe in a patchwerk fight where you just tunnel a target and don't have to worry about multi dotting and can stack Alacrity stacks maybe Legion Sub prevails in such situations. But how frequent is that with Ion Hazzikosta's latest promotion as assistant lead dev?

Outlaw is basically a sports car that doesn't have good fuel efficiency while Legion Sub is a Toyota corolla.

What posses the devs to think the new Legion Sub is dynamic or as fun as WoD Sub baffles me. And it can't be Shadow Strike, because in early iterations remember Shadow Step was not even part of the plan. Instead of making Shadow Strike meaningful they turned it into a filler gimmick for shadow dance charges. The power of Rogue game play is opportunity, timing of powerful cool downs, managing CP and energy, etc. Legion Sub takes all of that away and it is just monotonous. Even a BC Combat Rogue had more dynamic game play (especially with Rupture weaving).

I think Blizz needs to do something different with Shadow Strike and Nightblade to really change up the spec to be more dynamic or powerful in burst windows.

[kalaratic]

That would be counterproductive.

I would head to twitter (aka Blizzard's ivory tower) and call them out for dragging their feet on class design yet again...just like they did with WoD. Overall, I think their communication in Legion has improved from WoD but it is still severely lacking with what the general direction the game is heading towards

idk i'd prefer to have my alpha taken away from shittalking them than posting on twitter because that way we would know someone from blizz actually clicked the subtlety thread on their computer, it would be concrete proof of it. i'm down to take one for the team

[Mafic]

idk i'd prefer to have my alpha taken away from shittalking them than posting on twitter because that way we would know someone from blizz actually clicked the subtlety thread on their computer, it would be concrete proof of it. i'm down to take one for the team

Not necessary as they have three months to go till launch. The blowback will be immense if they release this to the general public.

Just wait till the the first patch to see meaningful changes to Rogues in general.

[delus]

Or they could just make the PvP talent that makes symbols of death auto cast on entering stealth/shadow dance a artifact perk, or just make it so thats how the damn spec works. I mean the entire spec is about being stealth and jumping around like a crazy ninja doing massive burst dmg. Instead our burst is shit because we have to be like " AYYYYLMAO JK WASTING 1/3 OF MY BURST WINDOW PUTTING UP A BUFF WOO! "

Yeah, not excited about that at all. I don't even know if people feel the same way but it just ruins the spec for me. Can't even leave feedback on the alpha and I get the feeling that they wouldn't listen because they are basically done with design. People have been complaining about vendetta for ages, now sub gets it as a short maintenance buff. Wonder if it will just get macroed to dance by the majority.

[maddnesskhaz]

Yeah, not excited about that at all. I don't even know if people feel the same way but it just ruins the spec for me. Can't even leave feedback on the alpha and I get the feeling that they wouldn't listen because they are basically done with design. People have been complaining about vendetta for ages, now sub gets it as a short maintenance buff. Wonder if it will just get macroed to dance by the majority.

You'll want 2 buttons for Dance, one with SoD macro'd in and one without; pool to 35 energy before Dance > hit macro > wait a full GCD > Shadowstrike x 2.

[Valentyn]

You'll want 2 buttons for Dance, one with SoD macro'd in and one without; pool to 35 energy before Dance > hit macro > wait a full GCD > Shadowstrike x 2.

So much for making the spec more accessible to newer people. Removing the stealth bar already adds extra buttons on already filled bars, now we'll need even more macros.

Rather annoying to say the least; and personally I don't like the idea of SoD at all, especially with it needing a SDance charge every 18-20 seconds.

[maddnesskhaz]

So much for making the spec more accessible to newer people. Removing the stealth bar already adds extra buttons on already filled bars, now we'll need even more macros.

Rather annoying to say the least; and personally I don't like the idea of SoD at all, especially with it needing a SDance charge every 18-20 seconds.

Oh I loathe SoD and the "use your major spec thematic cooldown to maintain a buff" gameplay it brings. It would be like an Arms Warrior have to use Colossus Smash windows to refresh a buff.

A macro just makes it quicker / easier than pressing seperate buttons for SD & SoD, not particularly a gamebreaking difference. No action bar paging or macro conditional triggering on dance is pretty bad though.

[Lorentz]

You'll want 2 buttons for Dance, one with SoD macro'd in and one without; pool to 35 energy before Dance > hit macro > wait a full GCD > Shadowstrike x 2.

Even with 200ms I didn't need macro for ShD and utilized all 3 GCDs. Macro would certainly be helpful but not required.

[maddnesskhaz]

Even with 200ms I didn't need macro for ShD and utilized all 3 GCDs. Macro would certainly be helpful but not required.

Just saves a button press is all, doesn't really serve much purpose other than making you 'forget' SoD is a whole separate button

[Deleted]

Just saves a button press is all, doesn't really serve much purpose other than making you 'forget' SoD is a whole separate button

Which begs the question, why the fuck is it on the GCD in the first place. So much for people preaching about wanting an "interesting" button added to the sub rotation

We got a wank version of Savage Roar plain and simple( irrespective of it costing energy instead of CPs).

[Deleted]

I wonder if we'll get any changes in the next build. I want some new fluff abilities like Bribe and Distract.

Since rogue is the only class I'm following, how are other classes in regards to Dev activity? Are we middle ground? I don't recall seeing much for tanks.

[kalaratic]

I wonder if we'll get any changes in the next build. I want some new fluff abilities like Bribe and Distract.

Since rogue is the only class I'm following, how are other classes in regards to Dev activity? Are we middle ground? I don't recall seeing much for tanks.

i think for the most part people are pretty meh in response their spec changes and lack of response from devs seems to be a common issue. except for arms warriors, holy shit those guys are PISSED

[Deleted]

i think for the most part people are pretty meh in response their spec changes and lack of response from devs seems to be a common issue. except for arms warriors, holy shit those guys are PISSED

Is Arms left in the back closet? Poor guys.

I keep hoping for a rather large build, filled with new spells for every class. I hope something like that happens before Legion.

[Deleted]

Is Arms left in the back closet? Poor guys.

I keep hoping for a rather large build, filled with new spells for every class. I hope something like that happens before Legion.

It was worse, Arms at one point(can't remember which build) was playing amazing, every tester was lauding how this was the best it had ever played, the basis being everything was geared around extending the colossus smash window. All of the artifact talents had really good synergy with the rotation and the spec played really smoothly, especially in the execute phase.

But the dev's got scared of people extending colossus smash indefinitely, so instead of putting a cap on the max time it could be up they binned the extension mechanics and changed the spec and now it feels clunky and half finished.......sound familiar?

It was akin to showing you the most beautiful painting in the world, then poking your eyes out with red hot needles, so pissed doesn't even touch the surface.