Vol'jin or Sylvanas : Who do you find more capable as the Warchief?

[Zulkhan]

It's emocore.

Gosh, what's worse than this shit? Deathcore?

I am not surprised.
The illogical hate against her is so big some would even claim Vol'jin is capable, even on a subsection dedicated to lore!

Or more about the fact that when it comes to be Warchief she has all to demonstrates as well. She hardly fit as permanent replacement, that's guaranteed.

And let's not be hypocritical, we know there are many Sylvanas fans, not just haters or absolutely rational individuals.

Oh my god there is headcanon that still blames sylvanas for wrathgate?

Let's blame Sylvanas for the thing happening under her nose, at most, but all these assumptions about Sylvanas pushing moustache-villain agendas should just stop. Heck, someone even went far to blame Theramore on Sylvanas.

And gosh, is funny how people come up with unsubstantiated theories about Sylvanas' "evilness" when the only "evil" agenda she shown to have is widely ignored by most people: the fact that she wanted the Scythe of Elune to (supposedly) curse all of humanity with the same affliction the Gilneans endure.

No one gives a shit about that. Everyone's like "muh Wrath Gate, muh Southshore, muh Mind-Control, muh Blight, muh she pissed Lorthy and Garry".

And the Worgen nearly defeated the Forsaken, that's why Sylvanas had to kidnap Crowleys Daughter.

The Forsaken would have been defeated but is not the kidnapping of Crowley's daughter that tipped the balance on Sylvanas' favor, the raising of Godfrey was.

When Lorna got caught the conflict was already on the Forsaken's favor, the only reason such mean was needed was to end the conflict and avoid further casualties.

[Al Gorefiend]

Is "heartless" the same as "evil"? A lot of Forsaken high executioners and commanders are completely unhinged and lack any kind of sympathy towards even their own people. Killing Forsaken who get captured rather than rescue them? Who else remembers that quest in Venomspite?

And if you claim they're acting on their own without Sylvanas' command.... Why the hell can't she control any of her people?

[Zulkhan]

He's capable of leading and making military decisions.

In the novel he's also shown to be peculiarly gifted in psychological warfare.

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Is "heartless" the same as "evil"? A lot of Forsaken high executioners and commanders are completely unhinged and lack any kind of sympathy towards even their own people. Killing Forsaken who get captured rather than rescue them? Who else remembers that quest in Venomspite?

Forsaken are generally ruthless, that's a fact. They value rationality over sentimentalism, in Arathi they ridicule and mock humans for their irrational attachment towards things that has no practical usefulness. Ironically, Sylvanas is the less messed up in comparison.

And if you claim they're acting on their own without Sylvanas' command.... Why the hell can't she control any of her people?

Well, she jumped from Ranger-General of Quel'Thalas to political leader of a bunch of emotionally messed up individuals. We can't say experience is on her favor.

[Deleted]

I think that Sylvanas is Warchief is pure Fanservice. It's the same old story like with Garrosh. People don't liked him because he's evil, so they replaced him with the nice guy. The people don't like they nice guy, so they replace her with Sylvanas, who has her own personal fanboy army and is loved because of dark and edgy gothic emo elf.

[Rathbourne]

The whole problem with most people on a debate like this is they like to bash the character their against into nothingness.I for one believe Vol'jin is a better choice for Warchief.But that doesnt mean im gonna say Sylvanas is shit.
Like i'v already said in previous posts,she is the best commander the Horde has.The only person who even comes close to her military brilliance is Saurfang.But Vol'jin is a better political leader.He would be much more capable of holding the Horde together,especially in a time like this when panic and fear is high.

[Raiju]

Vol'Jin won the war in Draenor, he already has that as a major decisive victory during his brief time as Warchief. He gave the command to establish the shipyard (curse you Vol'Jin...) and push into Tanaan with Khadgar's suggestion. The faction info for Vol'jin's headhunters states "seeking to protect Azeroth with a decisive victory on Draenor. Warchief Vol'Jin assembled champions to establish a foothold in Tanaan to overthrow Gul'dan".

What did he actually do here? Where is Vol'jin...? The alliance were the primary factor in beating the iron horde given how weak the horde military was, and all he did was say "go help". I don't remember him doing anything like say Thrall did. Heck, thrall did TONS.

[Deleted]

What did he actually do here? Where is Vol'jin...? The alliance were the primary factor in beating the iron horde given how weak the horde military was, and all he did was say "go help". I don't remember him doing anything like say Thrall did. Heck, thrall did TONS.

Thrall did nothing as a Horde member since the battle of mount hyal until WoD

[Friendlyimmolation]

Thrall did nothing as a Horde member since the battle of mount hyal.

Seige of Org and helping the horde all the way up to MoP and WoD says hello,

Seriously how can you be so fucking bad at simple lore stuff?

[Zulkhan]

The alliance were the primary factor in beating the iron horde given how weak the horde military was

This is pure headcanon.

and all he did was say "go help". I don't remember him doing anything like say Thrall did. Heck, thrall did TONS.

Thrall barely did anything, apart some fighting in Frostfire Ridge. As you arrive at Wor'var in Nagrand the first thing he says is "commander, we need your leadership, make choices and do shit". Durotan did much more, in comparison. All Thrall did was fight against Garrosh and fry him to death.

And Vol'jin didn't merely send you to do stuff, he's the one (much like Varian) who planned the final assault on Tanaan. It's the whole reason why he came to your Garrison.

[Raiju]

This is pure headcanon.

Sorry, it was inferred from blue responses actually. I'm a horde leaning so I'm not one to give alliance credit where it's not due.

Thrall barely did anything, apart some fighting in Frostfire Ridge. As you arrive at Wor'var in Nagrand the first thing he says is "commander, we need your leadership, make choices and do shit". Durotan did much more, in comparison. All Thrall did was fight against Garrosh and fry him to death.

"All" So he assists you personally in frostfire, has already gone ahead in wol'var and personally defeats garrosh and this is... nothing? Compared to Vol'jin sitting in orgrimmar with buildings named after him fighting after an artifact I'm not sure anyone canonically ever obtained?

And Vol'jin didn't merely send you to do stuff, he's the one (much like Varian) who planned the final assault on Tanaan. It's the whole reason why he came to your Garrison.

Really? Khadgar did all that in the quests.

[Zulkhan]

Sorry, it was inferred from blue responses actually. I'm a horde leaning so I'm not one to give alliance credit where it's not due.

The blue merely said the Alliance is the current "superpower". That, alone, apart implying that the Horde can't handle a full-scale war against the Alliance, means nothing. The amount of troops and military power displayed in Draenor was no different in the slightest.

"All" So he assists you personally in frostfire, has already gone ahead in wol'var and personally defeats garrosh and this is... nothing?

Yeah, he did pretty little in the end. It was more the appearances than the contribution. Durotan constantly overshadowed Thrall who most of the time simply "hanged around". Heck, he even shows himself at Shattrath but doesn't participate in the final battle. I still have to understand why he was even there. And challenging Garrosh to a Mak'gora after Durotan and the rest of the Horde army stormed Grommashar doesn't look like much. I mean, it was not even necessary waste time with some "honorable combat" to begin with, that was a whim of Thrall.

Last but not least, he's nowhere to be seen during the 6.2.

Compared to Vol'jin sitting in orgrimmar with buildings named after him fighting after an artifact I'm not sure anyone canonically ever obtained?

Vol'jin being Warchief definitely makes him at least responsible of the organization of the whole campaign. Or did we forget what such title means?

Really? Khadgar did all that in the quests.

Khadgar? Khadgar is involved with the legendary chain and that's it. The forces in Tanaan are Horde and Alliance, not Kirin Tor. Vol'jin and Varian are those organizing the military aspects of their respective campaigns.

[Raiju]

The blue merely said the Alliance is the current "superpower". That, alone, apart implying that the Horde can't handle a full-scale war against the Alliance, means nothing. The amount of troops and military power displayed in Draenor was no different in the slightest.

Unless you can give a non pure programming example of that, it's irrelevant. The only word we have on this is the blue, so.

Last but not least, he's nowhere to be seen during the 6.2.

Because vol'jin was very apparenty

Vol'jin being Warchief definitely makes him at least responsible of the organization of the whole campaign. Or did we forget what such title means?

Only if you can point out where there is evidence of his input. He doesn't necessarily need to be on the front lines, but some presence would be nice rather than absolutely nothing.

Khadgar? Khadgar is involved with the legendary chain and that's it. The forces in Tanaan are Horde and Alliance, not Kirin Tor. Vol'jin and Varian are those organizing the military aspects of their respective campaigns.

And yet khadgar is the one assigning you to get a shipwright, to construct ships, and to assault into tanaan. After that we take our respective horde/alliance camps once again without a word from vol'jin. This is after thrall was the one who organized the horde forces for the initial garrison setup in 6.0

[rda]

Sorry, it was inferred from blue responses actually. I'm a horde leaning so I'm not one to give alliance credit where it's not due.

I am "Alliance leaning", and I think he's right - the Alliance and the Horde had more or less equal power *on Draenor*.

As one example, the Horde had no problems contesting the Alliance as an equal in Ashran. If the Alliance was much stronger than the Horde, it would have been silly for the Horde to do so (and if the Horde did so, the Alliance would have beaten them).

It doesn't make much sense for the Alliance and the Horde be equal in power on Draenor after what we saw in MoP, sure, but chardev was never big on logic.

[Zulkhan]

Unless you can give a non pure programming example of that, it's irrelevant. The only word we have on this is the blue, so.

The game is the example. Shown right on your face. The display of forces is identical. Nothing barely suggests that the Horde was "handicapped" in Draenor and Metzen's claim alone isn't enough evidence to demonstrate that specifically.

Because vol'jin was very apparenty

Still more than Thrall, ironically. The way Thrall got cut out by the patch was kinda hilarious though.

Only if you can point out where there is evidence of his input. He doesn't necessarily need to be on the front lines, but some presence would be nice rather than absolutely nothing.

Thrall barely shown his face in any Horde war campaign from Classic to WotLK, but is fairly evident that all the commands came from him because, you know, Warchief. This is noticeable in many ways in WoD as well. Even if he's not there physically, Vol'jin's name is constantly mentioned.

And yet khadgar is the one assigning you to get a shipwright, to construct ships, and to assault into tanaan.

Lol no. Go play that shit again. It's Vol'jin/Varian doing all that. Khadgar is there in your Garrison giving no quests, he just has a text, then you simply talk to him before the invasion when you're done with your shipwright businesses. On the other hand, Vol'jin/Varian gives those quests and everything implies they have their heads deep into organizing the final assault. Even Yrel/Durotan points out that the High King/Warchief is fortunate in having you, the awesome commander, at their disposal.

This is after thrall was the one who organized the horde forces for the initial garrison setup in 6.0

Thrall didn't really organize anything. The player is the field commander in Draenor, appointed by the Warchief (much like Thrall appointed Garrosh back in WotLK). Even in Wor'var Thrall literally waits for you before doing anything.

[Combatbutler]

I am "Alliance leaning", and I think he's right - the Alliance and the Horde had more or less equal power *on Draenor*.

As one example, the Horde had no problems contesting the Alliance as an equal in Ashran. If the Alliance was much stronger than the Horde, it would have been silly for the Horde to do so (and if the Horde did so, the Alliance would have beaten them).

It doesn't make much sense for the Alliance and the Horde be equal in power on Draenor after what we saw in MoP, sure, but chardev was never big on logic.

What was seen on draenor is not necessarily the full strength of the factions, after all it is quite unlikely for all the nations to go all out, they simply committed some troops. So it is quite possible that the Alliance had greater reserves than the horde so to speak.

[rda]

What was seen on draenor is not necessarily the full strength of the factions, after all it is quite unlikely for all the nations to go all out, they simply committed some troops. So it is quite possible that the Alliance had greater reserves than the horde so to speak.

Absolutely, but on Azeroth. That's how I make it all fit when thinking about it - Draenor forces are about the same (basically just because, all questions to Blizzard lore writers), but on Azeroth, the Alliance is much stronger and the Horde is rebuilding.

[Darkeon]

Sylvanas or lor'themar for Warchief (leaning more towards lor'themar as Warchief, though..). Vol'Jin fits more of a close adviser role, in my honest opinion.

[Combatbutler]

Sylvanas or lor'themar for Warchief (leaning more towards lor'themar as Warchief, though..). Vol'Jin fits more of a close adviser role, in my honest opinion.

Lor'themar is fine where he is, he cares too much for his own people and as such would be too biased.

Vol'jin cares for all, which is nice but I am not sure if he is real warchief material, to be honest I doubt any of the racial leaders would be a real good warchief, but that's my opinion.

[Darkeon]

Lor'themar is fine where he is, he cares too much for his own people and as such would be too biased.

Vol'jin cares for all, which is nice but I am not sure if he is real warchief material, to be honest I doubt any of the racial leaders would be a real good warchief, but that's my opinion.

That's exactly where I'm standing. And why I personally side with lor'themar; While he is indeed biased, I find him to be the best suitable Commander-in-chief (especially in times of conflict). Sylvanas being a close second. The rest massively best fit for advisers to the warchief, all with their strengths.

But I, too, don't think there is an obvious candidate that one could say "yeah, he was born to lead the Horde!".

[Maxilian]

That's exactly where I'm standing. And why I personally side with lor'themar; While he is indeed biased, I find him to be the best suitable Commander-in-chief (especially in times of conflict). Sylvanas being a close second. The rest massively best fit for advisers to the warchief, all with their strengths.

But I, too, don't think there is an obvious candidate that one could say "yeah, he was born to lead the Horde!".

Well... not even Lor'themar think he's suited for the leadership role, so i wouldn't say Lor'themar (He sees himself more of a war commander but he doesn't have the history that Sylvanas have as a commander so i would live her there when it comes to big conflicts like this one)