Offical response from blizzard on legacy servers.

[Deleted]

Only compared to other private servers.

No, compared to original. Minor differences like the escort quests but no big deal.

[rda]

No, compared to original.

How do you compare? What are you looking at?

[Blayze]

Everyone's a critic.
"You can't make a legacy server match every expansion and patch ever so the idea is terrible horrible bad bad bad."

[-Gr-]

/sigh

Then prove me wrong, rather than writing insulting posts that just get reported for their inanity.

Nothing can be proven without trial yet...

Try opening your mind and accepting that something other than legacy server could actually be a thing. You just keep saying how you're right and I'm wrong when that's not the case at all. People would actually group up with each other. I don't see how you are saying they wouldn't (There's no reason for them not to), that's just idiotic. I'm sorry but here it is...It being more grindy is what old wow used to be. OH GOSH shocker isn't it? Oh wait..it shouldn't be that shocking?..
Leveling should take time to do. That's why vanilla was so great. It took FOREVER to get to 60 in vanilla. It's just one aspect that you have to have in an mmo to make it feel like you are climbing that hill and it's not going to be over tomorrow or next week. When you finally get to the top, you have achieved something. Difficulty will be a little higher since people won't be decked out in heirlooms, and there will be no more of "Oh he has no heirlooms, awesome". People will work harder to accomplish their goals and finish dungeons. People will genuinely be more social because they need you to get things done. I don't believe they should open every expac up on the pristine realms at once though. I feel like they should release them over set periods of time. It would feel better that way IMO. Try being less smug about what you're saying. It comes off as ignorant in many forms. Maybe if you would have actually tried to make an intellectual thought instead of just telling me something in the most asinine way possible, I wouldn't have to let you know how you're acting.

[Akka]

They are not nearly 95% the same. Not even 70%. If we look close enough, not even 10% perhaps.

You're both exagerating a lot.
No server is undistinguishable from a Blizzard real one, due to the absolutely immense amount of mechanisms which exist (really, really immense).
But at the same time, the functionnality is much higher than "10 %". Most talents work exactly like on retail, most quests are the same, etc.

Among the best PS, there is still tons of bugs and discrepancies, but it's still pretty faithful to what Vanilla was. The most obvious flaws typically are about patrols, spawning and mob behaviours.

[Deleted]

How do you compare? What are you looking at?

By experiencing it, something you clearly have not done. The good vanilla servers, Nostalrius and Kronos, are 95-99% blizzlike, have real GM´s and even a working ticket systems. Your sh** won´t get more true if you continously repeat it. Those servers would not be this successfull if they wouldnt work blizzlike.
I played a 60 WL on Nost and a 60 Paladin back then on retail and Nost was very good in terms of quality (not 100% blizzlike, some bugs with mob placement and patrols but most wont be noticed) and i heard Kronos is even better but i won´t play there as Blizzard is going to shut this server down pretty soon.

[Akka]

'Much less than 10% of the current WoW staff, permanently including 15% actual game developer for unexplainable reasons, working on vanilla server with 10% of WoWs current paying population is already too much!'

Makes sense.

Spot on ^^

[rda]

You're both exagerating a lot.
No server is undistinguishable from a Blizzard real one, due to the absolutely immense amount of mechanisms which exist (really, really immense).
But at the same time, the functionnality is much higher than "10 %". Most talents work exactly like on retail, most quests are the same, etc.

Among the best PS, there is still tons of bugs and discrepancies, but it's still pretty faithful to what Vanilla was. The most obvious flaws typically are about patrols, spawning and mob behaviours.

What you are saying is that it functions close enough for players to feel like they are playing vanilla. I more or less agree with this, that's similar to how a copy of a painting - even if done by an unprofessional painter from memory - is still somewhat similar to the original. Yes, that's enough for some of the players, especially when they don't have to pay any money and doubly so because they don't even care that much about getting 100% of the details right, if it feels similar enough, it's fine.

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By experiencing it, something you clearly have not done. The good vanilla servers, Nostalrius and Kronos, are 95-99% blizzlike, have real GM´s and even a working ticket systems. Your sh** won´t get more true if you continously repeat it. Those servers would not be this successfull if they wouldnt work blizzlike.
I played a 60 WL on Nost and a 60 Paladin back then on retail and Nost was very good in terms of quality (not 100% blizzlike, some bugs with mob placement and patrols but most wont be noticed) and i heard Kronos is even better but i won´t play there as Blizzard is going to shut this server down pretty soon.

That's what I thought, "by experiencing it". That's a terribly imprecise measure.

These numbers you are citing don't mean what you think they mean.

Look into the code for server cores. It's a complete ad-hoc mess. Then look at the fixes. They are completely ad-hoc as well. "Hey, let's move this check further, because in this case it bugs." Who cares that doing that might break other cases. Nobody will even know until someone notices and reports, and the report gets noticed as well.

The devs are trying to make the code do the right thing without knowing what that right thing is.

[Deleted]

How do you compare? What are you looking at?

I played vanilla...

[rda]

I played vanilla...

See above, that's a terrible way to compare. You didn't experience even a iota of what the vanilla code allows (never jumped off that mountain, never used that spell on that murloc, never took that quest after that one, etc) so you can't even comment on whether those 99.99% of the things you didn't experience are done right. And those 0.01% of the things you did experience, you don't remember in even half the details.

What you know is how things should work in general. That the private server mostly does. But that's a far cry from how things really worked.

Many of the differences are small, others are significant. But there are millions of them, and the proportion of the things that work exactly like Blizzard's vanilla code is very small.

[Dormie]

Petty butthurts try to tell others what they do and should like. More at 10.


What's it matter? Another server will just take Nost's place and Bliz can't do a thing about it but shut it down and keep pissing people off. Inevitable criminal activity is the number one sign of a broken law. Too bad society lives in fabricated concepts rather than reality.

[Baronthefirst]

What Nostalrius people want is a vanilla server because they do not like how retail WoW is all around, not just the supposed lack of community feel. They are stuck to their nostalgy, believing that all the unbalance and lack of even more content is the ideal state. Pristine realms would flop even harder than actual Blizzard-hosted vanilla servers.

But the thing is. Blizzard hosted vanilla servers wouldn't flop if re-introduced as an additional way to play WoW. I mean who says we can't have both worlds? Blizzard just needs to admit current WoW sucks and previous to Cataclysm was great. Open the door and let their players decide what they want to do instead of limiting them. Having the option alone puts a smile on peoples faces. Lets not forget two very different versions of a game is a good way to not get too burned out. You get to mix it up. There are a lot of positives to legacy servers.

[Deleted]

What you are saying is that it functions close enough for players to feel like they are playing vanilla. I more or less agree with this, that's similar to how a copy of a painting - even if done by an unprofessional painter from memory - is still somewhat similar to the original. Yes, that's enough for some of the players, especially when they don't have to pay any money and doubly so because they don't even care that much about getting 100% of the details right, if it feels similar enough, it's fine.

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That's what I thought, "by experiencing it". That's a terribly imprecise measure.

These numbers you are citing don't mean what you think they mean.

Look into the code for server cores. It's a complete ad-hoc mess. Then look at the fixes. They are completely ad-hoc as well. "Hey, let's move this check further, because in this case it bugs." Who cares that doing that might break other cases. Nobody will even know until someone notices and reports, and the report gets noticed as well.

The devs are trying to make the code do the right thing without knowing what that right thing is.

You dont get it. You cant compare a painting with WoW because a painting´s worth is derived from the fact that its a unicum. Better compare it to a real themepark. If your favorite themepark closes down your favorite rollercoaster and opens a newer, much less entertaining one instead and a competitor of the themepark rebuilds the old rollercoaster (its not the same, but it feels the same), it´s the old themeparks loss. Blizzard now has the luck that the fanbase says "if you open up the old rollercoaster again, we will comeback and pay for it at your themepark" and yet they are struggeling to take that chance. Sure, Nost was a copy because Blizzard will never ever release the source code of their server software, but it doesnt matter to the customer because it feels and plays the same. Take off your infatuated blizzard stance and open yourself for a real discussion without your far-fetched arguments, even blizzard opens up now so i think the fanboys can do that aswell. I do not, by any means, want to take away your retail server, i just want the game back that i loved and still love.

[RickJamesLich]

The pristine server thing is hilarious, literally nobody asked for that or wanted that. Blizzard has a knack for doing this lately, especially with stuff like the Garrison. But anyway, the game is too broken, even removing LFR and LFD isn't going to improve things - it would've been a good move a few years ago but it's kind of too late. Blizzard once again not listening to the players.

[Saucerian]

The "pristine" server idea, while still not Classic, could be a good compromise, but it does not go far enough.

I would love a server with no CRZ or LFR, but removing CRZ while keeping the leveling game as fast and easy as it is, even without heirlooms, will just lead to quickly empty zones again. Besides the stated changes, such a server would also need all the leveling curve reductions undone, and either greatly buffed monsters or nerfed players.

[MardestyGSOG]

Pristine is a step in the right direction. But it doesn't fix the shitty 5 man's when you hit level cap, the shit raid mechanics that involves "avoid all 10 aoe's and occasionally stand in this aoe to live", and the broken progression that involves upgrading gear through farming dailies to prep for current content. It's simple, they know what draws them money, and it isn't hardcore players who will keep subs for a decade if they continue to put out a quality product, what draws them money is endless micro transactions for vanity items and the ones who make those transactions are not interested in a true quality game, they're teenie bopper console gamers and that's who they wanna appeal to now.

[Urti]

If Blizz were to institute pre cata servers, I'd be down. The Dream for me would be a group of servers; one pre cata, one post cata, and one current, and your character can choose to transfer to the next at the appropriate level The classic pre cata could do things like replay the Gates event maybe once a year, and old raid versions that aren't live anymore. The post cata server would allow new people to have that feeling of logging in and seeing all that change for the first time. They could even do some nifty achievements, like ;
"Deja Voodoo" - clear Zul'aman legacy raid and dungeon on a single level-appropriate character.
"Three the hard way" - level a single character from 1-max level across all 3 servers (WoW legacy, Cata legacy, and current. Awards the title "Grognard".
" Spoiler alert" - acquire all the legacy mounts no longer available on current server. Awards Goblin/gnomish sports cart (with a big spoiler).
"This is hardcore!!" - complete every raid (legacy and current) on any difficulty, with the same character at the appropriate levels. Awards clockwork core hound pup pet.
"You call that hardcore!?" - complete every raid (legacy and current) at max available difficulty, with the same character, at the appropriate levels. Awards clockwork core hound mount.
Anyone think of any others?

[joesmoed]

"We hear you". BULLSHIT

Thinking for a second that so called pristine servers is what we want just show how out of touch blizzard is with its legacy fans.

You think you are listening but your not.

[MardestyGSOG]

Even TBC had no such nonsense.

It absolutely did.

[Pua]

Let's just put this to bed.

Try opening your mind and accepting that something other than legacy server could actually be a thing.

This isn't about being "open minded", but I get why that's your avenue of approach. It's about considering what a pristine realm would be designed to achieve, and whether or not it manages to do the things a legacy realm would do. Even a cursory consideration would have you conclude that it wouldn't, to the extent where even Brack admits that they don't know if it's something players want.

They know players want legacy servers.

They don't know if players want legacy servers.

As a result, we can logically conclude that the two do not achieve the same thing; not even the designers believe it.

People would actually group up with each other. I don't see how you are saying they wouldn't (There's no reason for them not to), that's just idiotic.

I disagree. Players grouped up in vanilla because it was worthwhile to do dungeons thanks to their rewards, and the difference they made to your levelling. When those rewards play next to no part in making your levelling easier, and you have to take time out of questing in order to put together a group, it's pretty obvious what players will do - they'll avoid it.

Leveling should take time to do. That's why vanilla was so great. It took FOREVER to get to 60 in vanilla.

Levelling took time because the game was harder. You couldn't pull a pack of mobs, melt them, and then move on to the next pack. You also couldn't completely ignore your quest text, save for anything more convoluted that what's shown on your map. Let's not forget that there were far fewer quests during vanilla, and the distances you often had to travel to complete more around your level was much less negligible (I remember the constant shift from the Barrens to Hillsbrad "fondly").

None of this is why levelling would take time on a pristine realm. It'd take time because there are five expansions to plough through, with little to no breaking up because getting a group would be far harder and for far less point.

People will work harder to accomplish their goals and finish dungeons. People will genuinely be more social because they need you to get things done.

People won't bother with dungeons at all. I'm willing to put a bet on it with you, right now, that they'll simply be avoided because they're inefficient. And people won't be more social, because heirlooms don't make the game easy; it's easy, regardless. Other players are a nuisance when you're questing, not a help, and will remain as shunned as they are now.

I don't believe they should open every expac up on the pristine realms at once though.

With respect, I don't think you get where this pristine realm idea comes from. Blizzard are worried about keeping up to date with multiple versions of the game, which means pristine realms would be designed to be exactly as live but with all cross-realming, LFD and experience increasing functionality turned off. That's it.

Try being less smug about what you're saying. It comes off as ignorant in many forms. Maybe if you would have actually tried to make an intellectual thought instead of just telling me something in the most asinine way possible, I wouldn't have to let you know how you're acting.

What a laugh.

Step one: Call someone a "dense stone".
Step two: Complain that they don't communicate properly.
Step three: Demand that several obvious points are spelled out.

Pristine realms are nothing more than an exercise in hand-waving because Blizzard don't want to cave on their legacy server stance, but are perhaps coming round to the idea that they're going to have to. You can paint it in whichever romanticized ideals you like; the concept of a pristine realm does not serve what the legacy players want in any way, shape or form.

The idea is a busted flush. And even more amusing, pristine realms are already live.