[Pre-Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Sangomah]

As of this build, CS does not refund but annhilation does.

Talent wise yes, we should have them earlier.

[zurm]

As of this build, CS does not refund but annhilation does.

Talent wise yes, we should have them earlier.

By "this build" you mean the one that we've had since last thursday, correct? Because they are deploying a new one right now.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Expectations for this build: Fel Eruption nerf. Because dear holy lord does it wreck some serious shit. Wouldn't be surprised by other nerfs too, but mostly expecting a Fel Eruption nerf.

Hopes: Fix that god damn Fel Rush animation cancelling. And Felblade too if they haven't solved that yet. And the fact that Chaos Strike has problems every other build it seems.

[Delimit]

Expectations for this build: Fel Eruption nerf. Because dear holy lord does it wreck some serious shit. Wouldn't be surprised by other nerfs too, but mostly expecting a Fel Eruption nerf.

Hopes: Fix that god damn Fel Rush animation cancelling. And Felblade too if they haven't solved that yet. And the fact that Chaos Strike has problems every other build it seems.

Don't say that, it's beautiful for Vengeance.

[Soulfròst]

I wish they'd at least send out a small wave of invites with each new alpha build. It would give me hope each week or two of possibly getting in. :\ Anybody doing datamining yet?

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Don't say that, it's beautiful for Vengeance.

Mayhaps, it's also awesome for Havoc :P it also might be a bit too good though, no? On the other hand though, i don't think Havoc is the only spec currently with the ability to hit for over 1m, so i reckon any nerf they make won't be too terribly extreme.

[Soulfròst]

After reading so much about the Demonic nerf, I really think it needs to have a second ability that it can proc off of. Should not be Chaos Nova because utility =/= DPS rotation, but something else that has a short to moderate cooldown I think. Eye Beam alone is not enough. Maybe blade dance?

[Vanyali]

After reading so much about the Demonic nerf, I really think it needs to have a second ability that it can proc off of. Should not be Chaos Nova because utility =/= DPS rotation, but something else that has a short to moderate cooldown I think. Eye Beam alone is not enough. Maybe blade dance?

It proc'ing off Eye Beam is honestly fine. A lot of people are doomsaying over it, but it didn't kill demonic, it brought it in-line AND gave us our stun back.

Those two were also chosen because their animations turn you into a demon without it as just the visual.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

After reading so much about the Demonic nerf, I really think it needs to have a second ability that it can proc off of. Should not be Chaos Nova because utility =/= DPS rotation, but something else that has a short to moderate cooldown I think. Eye Beam alone is not enough. Maybe blade dance?

That would give Meta a 50% + uptime depending on how much haste you have to reduce Blade Dance's CD by. And would be kinda poopy since you would only be able to use Death Sweep when using Eye Beam to proc it

I still think they could go the route of letting Chaos Nova proc it, but ONLY when it does what it's intended to do: stun and/or deal AoE damage, not ST.

[Delimit]

Mayhaps, it's also awesome for Havoc :P it also might be a bit too good though, no? On the other hand though, i don't think Havoc is the only spec currently with the ability to hit for over 1m, so i reckon any nerf they make won't be too terribly extreme.

Well, from a tanking perspective and having seen the overall damage output of Guardians/Paladins, it's definitely not out of line. That's the inherent problem of shared talents though. Try to tune for 1, and you nerf the other and need to compensate even more on other abilities.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Well, from a tanking perspective and having seen the overall damage output of Guardians/Paladins, it's definitely not out of line. That's the inherent problem of shared talents though. Try to tune for 1, and you nerf the other and need to compensate even more on other abilities.

I see, i haven't been paying much attention to other specs to be honest, so i couldn't honestly say what's what in regards to tanking. Maybe change it to Fire damage for Vengeance so that it has synergy and let it stay Chaos for Havoc because Mastery n' shtuff.

[Soulfròst]

It proc'ing off Eye Beam is honestly fine. A lot of people are doomsaying over it, but it didn't kill demonic, it brought it in-line AND gave us our stun back.

Those two were also chosen because their animations turn you into a demon without it as just the visual.

Pardon if I'm uninformed, but what other talents/artifact traits synergize with eye beam to enhance the effectiveness of the Demonic talent? I remember something that has a chance to reduce Eye Beam's cooldown and some talent that is a flat cooldown reduction for Eye Beam as well. Am I correct?

[zurm]

I wish they'd at least send out a small wave of invites with each new alpha build. It would give me hope each week or two of possibly getting in. :\ Anybody doing datamining yet?

They do...literally every week. It's just a small group of people. No point in slamming the servers having 1000s of people testing the same thing. Trust me, it's not as fun as you think; VERY unfinished, and super buggy. Many who have access stop playing out of frustration.

[Vanyali]

Pardon if I'm uninformed, but what other talents/artifact traits synergize with eye beam to enhance the effectiveness of the Demonic talent? I remember something that has a chance to reduce Eye Beam's cooldown and some talent that is a flat cooldown reduction for Eye Beam as well. Am I correct?

Feast on the Souls drops the CD every time you consume a soul; Demonic Appetite has a 15s ICD, 50% proc chance to spawn a soul off chaos strike.

But the big thing is that Demonic really really really isn't meant to be the warlock version of Meta. We're not supposed to have 50%+ uptime by tying it to a lot of things - that's not the theme of demon hunters, at all, and that's not even touching how mechanically broken it is to have it proc off both EB and CN (and how INSANE it'd be to proc off Blade Dance, which gets reduced by haste already). We're demon HUNTERS, not demons. We absorb the power, we use the power, but when you start turning into a demon... you're losing control, and when you lose control you tend to either die or become a raid boss, historically.

The point of demonic is you dancing across the line of control, which is why tying it to a lot of things get weird.. you're fighting for control.. on every ability.. for every action.. not very good of a demon hunter, eh?

On the mechanical side, annihilation and death sweep hit like goddamn trucks. Demonic being such a high proc is basically saying that we get to use our 5 (4 w/ artifact talent) minute CD every 30s, because why not, which means either Meta itself gets nerfed or we get nerfed overall.. for a single talent that should be adjusted instead of bringing every other build down.

[Tyberos]

They do...literally every week. It's just a small group of people. No point in slamming the servers having 1000s of people testing the same thing. Trust me, it's not as fun as you think; VERY unfinished, and super buggy. Many who have access stop playing out of frustration.

I rather enjoy alpha testing. Yeah the stuff is buggy, yeah it can be laggy, yeah they can shut the servers down multiple times in a play session....but that is kind of the point. To root out the issues, report them, rinse and repeat. I like it when game companies tell me to break their product :P
Unfortunately, no alpha access this time around for me.

[Soulfròst]

They do...literally every week. It's just a small group of people. No point in slamming the servers having 1000s of people testing the same thing. Trust me, it's not as fun as you think; VERY unfinished, and super buggy. Many who have access stop playing out of frustration.

I guess I wasn't really aware since they don't announce it in any way. I just want to help test it and offer feedback in the Alpha forums. From a standpoint in a middle ground between casual and hardcore. Call it semi-hardcore.

- - - Updated - - -

Feast on the Souls drops the CD every time you consume a soul; Demonic Appetite has a 15s ICD, 50% proc chance to spawn a soul off chaos strike.

But the big thing is that Demonic really really really isn't meant to be the warlock version of Meta. We're not supposed to have 50%+ uptime by tying it to a lot of things - that's not the theme of demon hunters, at all, and that's not even touching how mechanically broken it is to have it proc off both EB and CN (and how INSANE it'd be to proc off Blade Dance, which gets reduced by haste already). We're demon HUNTERS, not demons. We absorb the power, we use the power, but when you start turning into a demon... you're losing control, and when you lose control you tend to either die or become a raid boss, historically.

The point of demonic is you dancing across the line of control, which is why tying it to a lot of things get weird.. you're fighting for control.. on every ability.. for every action.. not very good of a demon hunter, eh?

On the mechanical side, annihilation and death sweep hit like goddamn trucks. Demonic being such a high proc is basically saying that we get to use our 5 (4 w/ artifact talent) minute CD every 30s, because why not, which means either Meta itself gets nerfed or we get nerfed overall.. for a single talent that should be adjusted instead of bringing every other build down.

I'll feel better about it once I get to play it I suppose. Can't know how it feels to play without playing it. :P

[Sangomah]

Demonic is still the best talent of the 3 on the 110 row after the nerf. We are still over of the best st dps and absolute king of are right now in my experience.

[Ilir]

Yup, I expect DH to be tuned down.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Seeing some icons for another Demon Hunter set. How many is that now?

[Kuze]

I've been wondering, how do you all feel about the tree taking to 110? Kind of seems arbitrary and pointless if no other classes have to