[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Purple]

Also I'd like to point out to @Purple mindspike has a completely different functionality in Legion. Still useless compared to LotV and StM, but it doesn't function the same.

I am already aware, but fair enough. I've addressed this earlier in the thread along another line of discussion. Its current status is one that just feels like a waste of a talent place. I'd be annoyed by that more if EVERY talent in that row did not feel like a waste of a talent space to me. I know some people are coming around on Surrender, but I am not one of them.

I guess it's iffy to talk about it without giving examples of the sort of spells I like in Shadow.

Shadow Word Death is the sort of new tool I love when added to Shadow (obviously it was added as a core spell back then, but that's not really the point), because of the fact it allowed us to play with our tool set in new and fun ways. Lately it's become little more than a finishing move, for Shadow, sadly. I usually go on about things that fit us thematically and mechanically, but I don't think I mention how important interactivity of abilities is to the spec. Not the sort that lead to a rotation, which is inevitable, but the sort that can let the player do interesting things like bounce a damage reactive heal off of themselves or the (not necessarily intended) get out of a sheep if well timed bits.

Tools to make a rotation work, and be interesting, I won't deny their importance, but also important are tools that let us.. play.

If I'm talking about our tools, I guess I can talk about AoE.. a bit. AoE is an iffy situation, I'm not happy with it now, but I can't get on board with people that look at Halo or Cascade as something preferable either. I really disliked Halo and our version just being 'the purple version of that holy spell' in particular. I'm quite happy Holy and Disc don't share our talent tree anymore, as when Halo, and such, first appeared. Shadow Crash, if I can view it in any positive light, it's the one where I can say, "at least it's not some purple tinted ability that was meant for holy first and foremost, in visual and name."

Fitting mechanically, fitting thematically/visually, and having interactivity amongst your tool set.. I suppose it's a tall order. I still expect no less of new additions to Shadow. In many ways it's why I dislike Shadow Crash as much as I do, but also why I feel the 'least' annoyed by Mind Spike in its WotLK version.

Getting back to Mind Spike, my biggest fear, in regard to Mind Spike, is that they'll continue to try and make it better.. instead of just kicking it out entirely. In their quest to make it better, I'm all but certain it will either remain useless or become too good, both results are bad for Shadow as a whole in their own ways. Sure, a happy medium may be the result, but I highly doubt it. It's that, "it has to be worthy of a talent slot" thing that worries me.

[Shandalar]

I would like to see a new dot instead of Mind Spike; its really stupid to see moonkins with more dots than a shadow priest.

[Gnarilex]

-snip-

It's hard to have abilities and visuals that fit us thematically when we don't have a clear theme. Thematically we're a miss. Vampire drains, basic shadow words, weird psionic mind stuff, random void spells, and now we're supposed to worship the Old Gods but the only influence of them seen in the spec is the voidform tentacles. Sure you could lump the mind stuff in with the Old Gods, but it's been there forever and feels kinda generic. A few dozen pages or so ago I made a post looking at the spells and abilities used in the Shadowmoon Burial Grounds. That clan makes much more sense to use as inspiration for shadow priests as they draw their powers from the Void, the direct opposite of the light. They had a touch of necromancy (which makes sense for a spec opposite two healers) with some really cool-looking void abilities that could be scaled down from AoE to ST if need be.

They had a direction they wanted to take the spec, but they didn't really feel like committing. They didn't need to drastically change spells to fit with the theme. All that would need to be done is a name and flavor text change with a different animation; just leave the functionality the same. Although with all the inspiration and spell animations they could have easily taken from the Shadowmoon Clan, I'm not sure why they went with Old Gods.

As for Shadowcrash I'm not its hugest fan. It's an okay spell but our AoE is still trash tier with it. Thematically it makes sense, but I can see your point about it being a warlock spell. They really didn't do a great job preventing the class from overlapping with others over the years.

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I would like to see a new dot instead of Mind Spike; its really stupid to see moonkins with more dots than a shadow priest.

They already tried that with Void Entropy and it did not turn out well. I think two DoTs is enough to manage.

[Shandalar]

They didnt even try to do it well; for them we had just 2 lvl 100 talents. With the new mechanics a new dot would fit well.

It will not happen, I know.

[Ilir]

Yeah I'd be pretty pissed if we end up with undertuned/totally useless talents again.

[Shandalar]

From the new build, I dunno but...



"ability priest dark archangel"

[Aeriel]

They didnt even try to do it well; for them we had just 2 lvl 100 talents. With the new mechanics a new dot would fit well.

It will not happen, I know.

They could add back DP there, which is effectively the same thing (a 3rd DoT no matter the name would be compared to DP). However, it would be the same complaint as with MSp: it should already be part of our kit.

Using that slot for a semi-rotational ability is not a bad idea though. I think it should be something to help with AoE. This is particularly true as the longer we are in VF, then the fewer fillers we use. A new talented spell should be one that accents our newer features (VF) rather than lose usage as we use our new features. Honestly, even SWV feels better there, and it is nearly useless with how little time is spent out of VF.

[Ilir]

From the new build, I dunno but...



"ability priest dark archangel"

It's a disc pvp talent.

[Shandalar]

It's a disc pvp talent.

BTW, 0 changes on the new build. Still psychic horror trait. Still worst traits of all the specs.

Nice.

[Ilir]

I dunno if the calculator is updated yet. Seems weird because no mention of the changes to sphere of insanity.

[Kretan]

BTW, 0 changes on the new build. Still psychic horror trait. Still worst traits of all the specs.

Nice.

Worst traits of all the specs? Really? Seems kind of drastic lol.

[Aeriel]

Worst traits of all the specs? Really? Seems kind of drastic lol.

Well, traits for pruned spells are pretty far down there. Just saying.

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I dunno if the calculator is updated yet. Seems weird because no mention of the changes to sphere of insanity.

It is. The only Priest change is to Apotheosis.

[Isentropy]

The calculators are updated, and it appears that the only 'change' is the fix to Sphere of Insanity.

[Ilir]

wth is this patch.

Like they barely touched class balance.

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The calculators are updated, and it appears that the only 'change' is the fix to Sphere of Insanity.

? I thought they said the tooltip will say which spells are triggering the sphere. Like "mind blast, void bolt"

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Tho direct damage is kinda self explanatory (but people might think the instant damage from SW : P or auspicious spirits are "direct damage")

[Kretan]

Soooo. How the hell do you get to the class hall after leaving on alpha again?

Nnm found it. What a god fking awful place.

[Isentropy]

? I thought they said the tooltip will say which spells are triggering the sphere. Like "mind blast, void bolt"

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Tho direct damage is kinda self explanatory (but people might think the instant damage from SW : P or auspicious spirits are "direct damage")

Yes, it specifically mentions which spells interact with it, namely Mind Blast, Mind Spike/Flay and Void Bolt. The 'change' is that Sphere now no longer works with all sources of damage, but it's bugfix because it was never intended to work the way it did for all these months.

[Ilir]

Yes, it specifically mentions which spells interact with it, namely Mind Blast, Mind Spike/Flay and Void Bolt. The 'change' is that Sphere now no longer works with all sources of damage, but it's bugfix because it was never intended to work the way it did for all these months.

mmh.... the calculator on the front page was just saying "direct damage" that's why i got confused. In game it says which spells.

They kept the silly sound lol.

[Kretan]

I think they fixed the bug with not being able to go in to void form at 60 insanity. I can't reproduce it anymore. Can anyone confirm that?

[Shandalar]

Worst traits of all the specs? Really? Seems kind of drastic lol.

We have 5 traits non-dps related, and nearly to useless on pve (dispersion, shadow mend... lol). Lets take a look to some classes:

Mages: arcane - 3, fire - 2, frost - 2

Locks: affliction - 3, demon - 2, destro - 3

Balance Druid: 4

Unholy DK: 3

Etc, we can do it with all the dps specs. Shadow is the worst one, and still with a non-existent spell.

[Kretan]

We have 5 traits non-dps related, and nearly to useless on pve (dispersion, shadow mend... lol). Lets take a look to some classes:

Mages: arcane - 3, fire - 2, frost - 2

Locks: affliction - 3, demon - 2, destro - 3

Balance Druid: 4

Unholy DK: 3

Etc, we can do it with all the dps specs. Shadow is the worst one, and with still an non-existent spell.

It really isn't the worst one. Having defensives isn't a terrible thing. I would judge an artifact more by the impact and how interesting the gold talents are, not useless and arbitrary stuff like net number of defensives. Mass hysteria is a fantastic trait tbh.

And to the last point, alpha is alpha?