Child porn suspect jailed indefinitely for refusing to decrypt hard drives

[Darkrulerxxx]

It's how it is working right now. I'm not saying I agree with it.

no, it doesn't work like that, nor has it ever, that's why we have the 5th amendment.

what they are doing is plain illegal.

[Tackhisis]

basis of contempt of court is faulty on violating his 5th amendment.

It is not related to the 5th amendment. No one ask him to testify against himself. He just has not to obstruct the legal search of his property.

[Kaeth]

If he's held in contempt of court he essentially holds the keys to his cell...as soon as he is willing to comply with the court order he will be released.

But those said "keys to his cell" amount to a forced waiver of his 5th amendment privilege. Though I am not a lawyer, it is my assumption as a lay person that the All Writs Act does not supersede the Constitution.

In effect, the government is depriving a man of his freedom indefinitely until such time as he "voluntarily" testifies against himself.

[Darkrulerxxx]

It is not related to the 5th amendment. No one ask him to testify against himself. He just has not to obstruct the legal search of his property.

it has everything to do with the 5th amendment, Giving up his password is considered self-incriminating.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

no, it doesn't work like that, nor has it ever, that's why we have the 5th amendment.

what they are doing is plain illegal.

It's how the framework for contempt of court works. Again, I'm not saying I agree with how its being implemented here.

Contempt of Court does allow for a prisoner to be held indefinitely because the prisoner has the power to affect his own release at any time.

[Luxxor]

A person cant be forced to self incriminate.

Its up to the authorities to find the evidence and prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Fugus]

It's how it is working right now. I'm not saying I agree with it.

No it doesn't which is why they are discussing it now. This is a case of them overstepping their legal authority by leaps and bounds and unlike police brutality, this one has a clear paper trail.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

No it doesn't which is why they are discussing it now. This is a case of them overstepping their legal authority by leaps and bounds and unlike police brutality, this one has a clear paper trail.

Again, I'm not saying I agree with what they are doing.

What I am talking about is how contempt of court itself works. Not how it applies to this case in particular.

[GennGreymane]

A person cant be forced to self incriminate.

Its up to the authorities to find the evidence and prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Sadly this.

[Luxxor]

Sadly this.

Im a firm believer that child molesters need to burn in hell but we cant just throw out judicial law.

Maybe law enforcement should starting getting funding for decrypting hard drives instead of buying gigantic SWAT vehicles and automatic weapons.

[GennGreymane]

Im a firm believer that child molesters need to burn in hell but we cant just throw out judicial law.

hence why I use the word sadly.

[Ilir]

Is it illegal to view child porn? Manufacturing and distribution - obviously - but I wasn't aware that viewing it was a criminal activity. If so, it seems unprecedented to me.

Either way, holding someone indefinitely without charges strikes me as unconstitutional.

Are you seriously asking this question ?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Either way, holding someone indefinitely without charges strikes me as unconstitutional.

Indeed. if they're going to do that they should have to send him to gitmo...

[Kaeth]

Contempt of Court does allow for a prisoner to be held indefinitely because the prisoner has the power to affect his own release at any time.

But Contempt of Court does not legitimately grant a judge the authority to bypass due process or circumvent the rule of law by forcing an individual to give up his rights in order to affect his release. That is a clear case of abuse of judicial authority.

Now whether the courts decide to treat decryption of one's own data as an equivalent to giving testimony or as ... something else not subject to 5th amendment protection ... remains to be seen. I don't know if there's clear precedent for it. Especially in such a case where there's no other strong evidence of wrongdoing to begin with.

I'm also not aware of any precedent regarding the application of the All Writs Act to require an individual to act directly against his own interest. Anyone have an example by chance?

[Fugus]

Again, I'm not saying I agree with what they are doing.

What I am talking about is how contempt of court itself works. Not how it applies to this case in particular.

What they are doing is illegal.

The maximum amount of time you can serve for a Contempt of Court is the maximum time you could have served under the charges against you and they haven't charged him with anything yet to my knowledge.

[draganid]

All they have to do is mention something extremely terrible like child porn and hes guilty until proven innocent to the general public, people don't think any further than headlines these days. Seven months held for nothing other than suspicion. If they can get it unlocked somehow without his help and they find child porn on it go ahead and lock him away for life, but to do so without any proof at all is fucked.

yeah, could very well be bs, the easiest way for a few cops to fuck another over one cop is something like this, he could very well have nothing on it but they are just tying to railroad him in the court of public opinion, totally discredit him and ruin his life. he must have had some crazy dirt on a few cops or disagreed with an immoral decision from the top and this was to shut him up.

and of course, he could just be a sick fuck too.

[GennGreymane]

Is it illegal to view child porn? Manufacturing and distribution - obviously - but I wasn't aware that viewing it was a criminal activity. If so, it seems unprecedented to me.

Either way, holding someone indefinitely without charges strikes me as unconstitutional.

Viewing child porn is illegal as its a product of harming children. 2d stuff is legal though for the anime fans out there who are curious.

[Ilir]

He wants to be released ? he gives the codes.

That's simple. If he has done nothing wrong, why wouldn't he share them ? They're not gonna be showed to the whole world anyway.

[The Stormbringer]

So has the sister been arrested as well for admitting to viewing child pornography? Do search warrants include hard drives nowadays?

Though if there was nothing on them, why wouldn't he decrypt them? Suppose stuff could be planted, seems like authorities are desperately trying to get him on something.

I'll go ahead and choose his side. Using his clearly vindictive sister and a "best guess" forensic examiner as witnesses is hilarious.

This right here. If there's no evidence in his home, if they can't even get a warrant to talk to his IP to scan through where he's been, and they found nothing on his laptop, it sounds like he's not DONE anything. It seems more like he's refusing to give it to them as a protest based around privacy and them holding him indefinitely without charging anything.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

What they are doing is illegal.

The maximum amount of time you can serve for a Contempt of Court is the maximum time you could have served under the charges against you and they haven't charged him with anything yet to my knowledge.

Untrue. He can be held for as long as he is unwilling to comply with the court order.