No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Pua]

I get that, and that's why I want flying implemented beforehand so when they feel it's time flip a switch, rather than make excuses, delay, and then miss the given date by a month long after it should've been in anyway.

To be honest, that just made me saltier about the whole thing. Only one option is viable from these two:

1) They designed Draenor for flying, and held back dishonestly.
2) Draenor was never designed for flying, and needed fixing.

Whichever you think it was, it was a shoddy way to treat the loyal players who stuck around for a terrible expansion.

[Granyala]

Eh? No. The world feels really small, when you fly across the globe on your super-sonic mount at ~500% speed.

The world feels equally small when I tab out while the trusty APG™ (which, incidentally has the same speed as my own flying mount) delivers my butt to the target location.

Oh and I'm sure I skip a lot more while typing this than I would while flying myself.

[ls-]

Then, as I've been arguing since the start of this intercession, let players decide.

You can't do that though, majority of players will pick the path of least resistance. Majority will pick flying at level 100, others will be forced to do so too, you have to be quite naive to think otherwise.

And then current quest & zone design will be quite useless.

- - - Updated - - -

The world feels equally small when I tab out while the trusty APG™ (which, incidentally has the same speed as my own flying mount) delivers my butt to the target location.

Oh and I'm sure I skip a lot more while typing this than I would while flying myself.

Even while flying by myself, I alt+tab, auto-run is a thing, you know.

[Granyala]

2) Draenor was never designed for flying, and needed fixing.

QUITE obvious if you mount on your flyer and take a close look at Highmaul and Shattrath.

While WoD is 3D and theoretically ready for flight, mob placement ect makes it painfully obvious that they never intended you to fly. Esp not pre 100. (Fly up to Aldor platform in pre invasion Shattrath if you don't believe me.

- - - Updated - - -

Even while flying by myself, I alt+tab, auto-run is a thing, you know.

I'd never do that. Way to risky getting carried away in Forums and poor Priestess ending up Naaru knows where. :X

[Pua]

You can't do that though, majority of players will pick the path of least resistance. Majority will pick flying at level 100, others will be forced to do so too, you have to be quite naive to think otherwise.

And then current quest & zone design will be quite useless.

Can I suggest you follow my posts from a page or so back? I'm not being rude, but you're missing the majority of the points I've made in that time; briefly summarised, I'm saying that you use the meta-achievement as the sole arbiter of whether or not players can fly, and adjust it to be as quick or as time-consuming as necessary.

[Granyala]

You can't do that though, majority of players will pick the path of least resistance.
And then current quest & zone design will be quite useless.

It's not about resistance. It's about FUN.

It's not fun for me to slog my way though 360° omnidirectionally aggro mobs that daze my clothie with every hit they land.
Esp with bad gear I want to kill as little trash as humanly possible.

FF-XIV did that really well. You can sneak past any mobs back but there is the risk of it turning at any moment and aggro.

Past leveling their zone design is far from useless with flight. Tanaan is so much more bearable when you have access to flight it's not even amusing anymore.

[ls-]

I'm saying that you use the meta-achievement as the sole arbiter of whether or not players can fly, and adjust it to be as quick or as time-consuming as necessary.

And how is it different from current Legion meta? O_o They added Part 1 that includes already existing content, content patches will add new parts, that's achievement adjustment. They can't add all requirements from the very beginning, it's impossible.

[Idoru]

And how is it different from current Legion meta? O_o They added Part 1 that includes already existing content, content patches will add new parts, that's achievement adjustment. They can't add all requirements from the very beginning, it's impossible.

It's not impossible, unless their goal is to repeat WoD and do it in the last patch. Which is what we want them to either confirm or deny.

[SirCowdog]

You can't do that though, majority of players will pick the path of least resistance. .

Then add resistance to flying. Expand and improve the mechanics. Do more than just litter the ground with shitty trash mobs with AI so bad it can't handle something a foot off the ground.

On top of that, if people are skipping the content with flight, maybe it's because the ground content wasn't worth doing in the first place.

God, I'm so close to giving up on this thread due to sheer, overwhelming lack of creativity and inability to think outside the box that's displayed by the anti-flight crowd.

[Deleted]

Ah, okay - thank you.

Interestingly, the "player equality" stance is something I can appreciate. If flying was powerful enough to make a substantial difference in player efficiency, then there is an issue of inequality... But the meta-achievement solves that! If you want the efficiency of flight, you go and do the achievements required!

Where I can potentially sympathise, is the consideration of alts or players coming in late. But even then, you can make the meta-achievement shift to the new zones and reward players for roughly the same amount of work. So, for example, the Thal'dranath achievement that rewards flight includes 50 world quests on Thal'dranath itself, completion of its heroic dungeons (assuming it has any) and you can use its reputations to substitute for the launch ones.

You know, that kind of thing.

I assume that unlocking flight will be handled as in WoD, for all your characters. I am not concerned about my alts that much, as long as they don't plan to change anything. Players who come in later are a bit handicapped by the amount of things to do. This is surely creating a difference. But since anything provides some bonuses to your Artifact progress, these players probably would do the content anyway.

[ls-]

It's not impossible, unless their goal is to repeat WoD and do it in the last patch. Which is what we want them to either confirm or deny.

It's impossible, they ALWAYS do changes to the story and content along the course of the expansion, they've been doing it since Vanilla. The infamous "it just didn't fit the story we were telling". If they add all the steps at Legion launch, they won't be able to do such changes.

[caervek]

Warriors may not be in the best spot on the alpha/beta, but many agree both specs are better than they are on live servers.

No, most agree that Arms is even worse now that on live, it's even more dumbed down (didn't think it was possible) and just mind numbing to play.

Fury has a few problems but it looks to be much more enjoyable than current fury which is just terrible.

Saying that Legion is only the second worst expansion for Fury isn't much of a silver lining, Legion Fury is still horrible to play and a significant step down from MoP.

20 man Mythic raiding was the best part of WoD what the **** are you talking about lol.

I guess that's why the mythic player base shrank by 2/3 in WoD while the total playerbase only shrank by 1/3 then, the figures don't lie, most players prefered the old 10/25 mythic format, however this is going OT.

Class halls are not garrisons go do your research.

It's the same concept, a place to AFK and send followers on missions, the development of which costs us a raid tier and maybe more.

TLDR: I don't know warriors, boohoo you wont be able to fly for awhile. WHO CARES

Most players, hence the backlash to Blizzards anti-flying stance in WoD.

flight is a convenience that it's appropriate to gate behind playing the game as intended. What saddens me is that it wasn't really flight that caused the issues in Warlords - it was the changing message, the misdirection and deceit, and the complete failure to give players control over when it was earned.

And they're doing exactly the same thing again.

It isn't a convenience, extra bag space is a convenience, pet storage was a convenience, toy storage was a convenience. Flying is an important part of the game that adds quality/depth, this is why the addition of flight to WoD instantly made it noticeably better, it turned it overnight from the worst expansion in the game's history to a legit Cata rival. Instantly things that were not worth doing were viable, it opened up the (albeit not huge) world to exploration/etc. Made it easier to get to places to do quests thus making them more viable as a pastime.

Because WoD had no flying at launch many people skipped a lot of tedious/inaccessible stuff until it became viable with flying, however at that point most players had quit the game so it was too little too late, if WoD had launched with flying at max level then people would have called it the worst xpan since cata, not the worst expan period.

[ls-]

Then add resistance to flying. Expand and improve the mechanics. Do more than just litter the ground with shitty trash mobs with AI so bad it can't handle something a foot off the ground.

On top of that, if people are skipping the content with flight, maybe it's because the ground content wasn't worth doing in the first place.

God, I'm so close to giving up on this thread due to sheer, overwhelming lack of creativity and inability to think outside the box that's displayed by the anti-flight crowd.

They can't, they tried experimenting with flying/swimming in Cata (Vashj'ir and few quests in Hyjal). It's a complete disaster and failure. Your average WoW player hates 3D combat.

[Deleted]

Eh? No. The world feels really small, when you fly across the globe on your super-sonic mount at ~500% speed.

You also tend to skip shitton of things, I had hard time, while doing TBC loremaster on my alts recently, because I was flying from point to point, I thus skipped quite many mobs that drop items that start quests. However, in TBC I'd get those items naturally by simply running into mobs on my way from one point to another. They tried to address this issue, by adding such items to other quest mobs, you'd definitely kill, and by introducing various zone quests, but it feels quite artificial.

I have done Argent tournament dailys recently on my latest alt, where I have bought 310% flying ASAP. Still, going from the Tournament area to the respective maiden for acquiring the sword was quite an impressive travel, even with all this fast flying. Not to mention all the views I have forgotten and could experience anew, that had slowed me down. :3

[Idoru]

It's impossible, they ALWAYS do changes to the story and content along the course of the expansion, they've been doing it since TBC. The infamous "it just didn't fit the story we were telling". If they add all the steps at Legion launch, they won't be able to do such changes.

I don't need to know the specific steps involved. I don't need to know the specific date.

They say they have a solid plan, so it should be possible to tell us (before release) how far into the expansion they plan to make it available. How else can they have a solid plan?

[Saiona]

Yeah sorry but no. Arms on live is one of the worst specs I have ever seen in my life. Even with tier and trinket (remember I play it at mythic level) its much worse than Legion arms and that's not counting all the artifact traits and the legendaries AND the tier bonuses.

[ls-]

I have done Argent tournament dailys recently on my latest alt, where I have bought 310% flying ASAP. Still, going from the Tournament area to the respective maiden for acquiring the sword was quite an impressive travel, even with all this fast flying. Not to mention all the views I have forgotten and could experience anew, that had slowed me down. :3

I'll just quote myself to answer you.

And then players whine that world feels small and there's no immersion whatsoever, smh. What do people want? Huge half-empty locations much bigger than IC and storm peaks, cuz our mounts are much and much faster than they used to be? Nah, fuck it.

IC and storm peaks were designed w/ flying in mind, hence those zones were/are SO big and half-empty. These days they'll need to create even BIGGER zones to achieve same feeling we had in Northrend.

[Granyala]

Which is what we want them to either confirm or deny.

They already confirmed that "flying in a later patch" is their agenda, because they are content with how it went in WoD.

[Idoru]

You also tend to skip shitton of things, I had hard time, while doing TBC loremaster on my alts recently, because I was flying from point to point, I thus skipped quite many mobs that drop items that start quests. However, in TBC I'd get those items naturally by simply running into mobs on my way from one point to another. They tried to address this issue, by adding such items to other quest mobs, you'd definitely kill, and by introducing various zone quests, but it feels quite artificial.

Your choice to use flying mounts while doing it.
I do Loremaster while leveling, where flying historically (except for Cataclysm) has been disabled.

[Granyala]

They can't, they tried experimenting with flying/swimming in Cata (Vashj'ir and few quests in Hyjal). It's a complete disaster and failure. Your average WoW player hates 3D combat.

That's because the engine and our navigational tools don't work well in a 3D environment.

And ofc the average WoW gamer is not accustomed to thinking in 3D. I loved vashj'ir and had not problem with the 3D aspect, except that it was sometimes unclear how far away a target really was.

But then again I played tons of X and Freelancer, so 3D space battles was nothing new for me.

- - - Updated - - -

IC and storm peaks were designed w/ flying in mind, hence those zones were/are SO big and half-empty.

Which is GOOD.

I mean seriously do we need an aggressive trash mob every 5 yards? Do people really consider that mob density fun?