Child porn suspect jailed indefinitely for refusing to decrypt hard drives

[Mayhem]

all he has to do to get out of jail is to unlock his hard drives.

aka all he has to do to get out of jail is prove his innocence. Yeah that doesn´t sound right.

[Deleted]

Basic law is that the accuser has to bring the evidence, not the other way around. If it were the other way around, people could go off saying person A did this or that with no recourse and the person being hauled off because he has no evidence to prove himself innocent other than his good nature or whatever. Pfftttt

The government can come in and at a whim say... BY THE POWER BESTOWED FROM MY IDIOT CONSTITUENTS, I HERE DECREE THAT ANY POLITICAL ADVERSARY IS A TERRORIST. COME FORTH WITH EVIDENCE AS TO WHY YOU ARE NOT A TERRORIST

Democracy just doesnt work that way dude. If you want that kind of justice go live in Somalia, the middle east or Communist russia

You don't need evidence. You need reasonable suspicion. There's a difference,

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

aka all he has to do to get out of jail is prove his innocence. Yeah that doesn´t sound right.

No, all he has to do is comply with the court order and he gets freed immediately. Or, his lawyer can make the case that the court order was unjust and he gets freed immediately. Nothing about innocence or guilt.

[Deleted]

aka all he has to do to get out of jail is prove his innocence. Yeah that doesn´t sound right.

I don't see why this is such a big deal. If I'm accused of anything I'll attempt to prove my innocence. Irrespective of who is accusing me.

If my partner accused me of being unfaithful, I wouldn't yell "Yeah? PROVE IT!". My first thought would be to clear my name and prove my innocence.
If the police approach me and accuse me of being a paedophile, of course I'm going to assist them as best I can in their investigation. The sooner that shit is cleared from my name, the better.
Anyone who is innocent and obstructs the police in their investigation is a fucking moron. Simple as that.

[Foosha]

I don't see why this is such a big deal. If I'm accused of anything I'll attempt to prove my innocence. Irrespective of who is accusing me.

If my partner accused me of being unfaithful, I wouldn't yell "Yeah? PROVE IT!". My first thought would be to clear my name and prove my innocence.
If the police approach me and accuse me of being a paedophile, of course I'm going to assist them as best I can in their investigation. The sooner that shit is cleared from my name, the better.
Anyone who is innocent and obstructs the police in their investigation is a fucking moron. Simple as that.

You have been accused of child pornography! They cant find anything, but some of your coworkers said they saw you looking at some! To acquit yourself and prove your innocence, you must pay the government 60,000 dollars, or be held in jail indefinitely until they find something you did!

[Mayhem]

No, all he has to do is comply with the court order and he gets freed immediately. Or, his lawyer can make the case that the court order was unjust and he gets freed immediately. Nothing about innocence or guilt.

That´s the same, though. If there´s child porn on his hard drive or anything that would justify jail he would be providing the needed proof himself and will be jailed, but if he doesn´t comply he will just stay locked up. Innocent until proven guilty, unless we say you have to provide the proof yourself, then you´re guilty until proven innocent.

Reminds me of that kate beckinsale movie nothing but he truth.

[Deleted]

You have been accused of child pornography! They cant find anything, but some of your coworkers said they saw you looking at some! To acquit yourself and prove your innocence, you must pay the government 60,000 dollars, or be held in jail indefinitely until they find something you did!

No. To acquit yourself and prove your innocence, you simply need to provide the authorities with access to your hard drive. Stop being so obtuse.

[Anuibus]

Risk a current maximum of two years in Jail (which would never stand, these terms are reserved for distributors of pirate material, not possessors) in exchange for clearing my name as a suspected paedophile? Fuck yes.
I can guarantee you 100% that if you were under suspicion of being in possession of child porn, you would be begging for the authorities to take your PC away to have your name cleared - irrespective of what other comparatively minor illegal content you might be in possession of. If not, you're either a complete idiot, or guilty.

Pleading the 5th is not an admission of guilt. Doesn't matter what's actually on the drive.

[Mayhem]

I don't see why this is such a big deal. If I'm accused of anything I'll attempt to prove my innocence. Irrespective of who is accusing me.

Yeah, the big deal is that people don´t have to prove their innocence but that the accusers have to prove guilt.

If my partner accused me of being unfaithful, I wouldn't yell "Yeah? PROVE IT!". My first thought would be to clear my name and prove my innocence.
If the police approach me and accuse me of being a paedophile, of course I'm going to assist them as best I can in their investigation. The sooner that shit is cleared from my name, the better.
Anyone who is innocent and obstructs the police in their investigation is a fucking moron. Simple as that.

And that´s why law isn´t like partnership. How would you feel if your partner would lock you up until you´ve provide proof that you weren´t unfaithful?

Do you understand where that road leads? If the police could just run around accusing people of whatever they want and people had to provide proof of innocence? That would lead to self monitoring just to have everything at hand if the authorities accused you of something.

[unbound]

Though if there was nothing on them, why wouldn't he decrypt them? Suppose stuff could be planted, seems like authorities are desperately trying to get him on something.

This is the one of the most insidious arguments that people use that destroy your rights as a US citizen. On the surface, it sounds good but, in reality, things go wrong all the time. People use similar arguments about people that use the 5th amendment...they assume the person must be guilty, but that isn't what is going on.

This is a long watch, but everyone should really watch this to understand. It is a lawyer explaining why the 5th amendment is so very important, and why you shouldn't talk to the police without a lawyer present.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

[Deleted]

Maybe he has a sextape of his friends when they were teenagers and he is afraid that it would convict him. I wonder if that count as child porn though
I always recorded sexual encounters (for evidence in case those bitches want to accuse me of rape when I eventually become rich and famous or else I'll end up like Michael Jackson or Bill Cosby). If I had "porn" of me as a "kid" (i.e minor) would I be good for jail ?

[Berengil]

Kiddie porn users/filmers should burn in hell. That being said, he cannot be forced to incriminate himself. IMO, the all writs act is unconstitutional.

[Foosha]

No. To acquit yourself and prove your innocence, you simply need to provide the authorities with access to your hard drive. Stop being so obtuse.

But you cant remember if you have another hard drive somewhere!Or those floppies a long time ago... Looks like you need to give up your entire assets until they find something! They must search every inch!

Fucking hell, I swear this is a movie out there that deals with this sort of idiocy, or was it an episode of a t.v show. Pretty verhoeven-esque if you ask me

[Deleted]

Do you understand where that road leads? If the police could just run around accusing people of whatever they want and people had to provide proof of innocence? That would lead to self monitoring just to have everything at hand if the authorities accused you of something.

Except that they clearly have reason to suspect this guy of being guilty. What's he proving by refusing to give the police access? Do you genuinely think he's protesting against infringement of his civil liberties, or do agree that he's probably guilty? Or both?
Seriously, this isn't some Orwellian 1984 scenario.

Let's assume for a moment that it's you in this guy's situation.
Are you honestly telling me that if some asshole led the police to believe that you were harbouring child pornography, you wouldn't assist the police in clearing your name as quickly and efficiently as possible? Of course you would.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe he has a sextape of his friends when they were teenagers and he is afraid that it would convict him. I wonder if that count as child porn though
I always recorded sexual encounters (for evidence in case those bitches want to accuse me of rape when I eventually become rich and famous or else I'll end up like Michael Jackson or Bill Cosby). If I had "porn" of me as a "kid" (i.e minor) would I be good for jail ?

Yes. If you genuinely have videos/images of minors on your computer, irrelevant of whether it was someone you slept with at the time, you're a fucking weirdo.

- - - Updated - - -

But you cant remember if you have another hard drive somewhere!Or those floppies a long time ago... Looks like you need to give up your entire assets until they find something! They must search every inch!

As long as they promise to tidy up after themselves. I have genuinely nothing to hide. Apart from a semen-encrusted wank sock in my laundry basket, but hey, everyone masturbates and that's a pretty small price to pay for clearing my name.

[Foosha]

Except that they clearly have reason to suspect this guy of being guilty. What's he proving by refusing to give the police access? Do you genuinely think he's protesting against infringement of his civil liberties, or do agree that he's probably guilty? Or both?
Seriously, this isn't some Orwellian 1984 scenario.

Let's assume for a moment that it's you in this guy's situation.
Are you honestly telling me that if some asshole led the police to believe that you were harbouring child pornography, you wouldn't assist the police in clearing your name as quickly and efficiently as possible? Of course you would.

Well, lucky for the modern world, and the civilized world, to be found guilty it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt. You may suspect someone of something, hell maybe even have probable cause, but if resonable doubt is not met than GOODBYE.

-Presumption of innocence
-Beyond a reasonable doubt
-Burden of Proof

Modern justice system everyone (its been around for a while)

[Mayhem]

Except that they clearly have reason to suspect this guy of being guilty. What's he proving by refusing to give the police access? Do you genuinely think he's protesting against infringement of his civil liberties, or do agree that he's probably guilty? Or both?
Seriously, this isn't some Orwellian 1984 scenario.

Well you haven´t answered my question about your partnership scenario. The probability of him being guilty is meaningless. If they think he´s done something they have to provide proof, not lock him up just in case.

Let's assume for a moment that it's you in this guy's situation.
Are you honestly telling me that if some asshole led the police to believe that you were harbouring child pornography, you wouldn't assist the police in clearing your name as quickly and efficiently as possible? Of course you would.

No i wouldn´t i´m not payed to do their work.

[Alydael]

Is it illegal to view child porn? Manufacturing and distribution - obviously - but I wasn't aware that viewing it was a criminal activity. If so, it seems unprecedented to me.

Either way, holding someone indefinitely without charges strikes me as unconstitutional.

I believe it is a crime to be in possession of child porn (you don't even have to view it).

The state isn't holding him indefinitely, he is chosing to stay in jail instead of decrypting the drives.

At least that is my understanding of the situation.

[Deleted]

Well you haven´t answered my question about your partnership scenario. The probability of him being guilty is meaningless. If they think he´s done something they have to provide proof, not lock him up just in case.



No i wouldn´t i´m not payed to do their work.

They're locking him up for obstruction.

[Twix]

Maybe he has dick picks on the hard drives and he doesn't want the cops to see his 2 inch cock.

[Hyve]

Accounting information that could get him arrested for tax evasion or organised crime?

Who knows?

So you mean other illegal information that could land him prison time? And people want me to feel sympathy for this guy?

Maybe he doesn't even remember the passwords ... and they are asking from him the impossible.

Come off it ... He knows the password...