Why is Unholy so unpopular & Legion dk preview thoughts

[Deleted]

I prefer Unholy thematically, rotationally, and visually. Both live and in legion.

[Nihilan]

One very annoying thing about Frost come Legion will be your base artifact trait that can summon a copy of each of your swords that just kind of hovers off your shoulders. Its very similar to the Frost mage's stupid icicle thing currently on live. They just float there anchored motionless in the air near your shoulders and occasionally jabbing at something.

One thing i do like about frost is how incredibly tanky it feels compared to every other melee spec ive tried. It does seem like it will get dull pretty fast though. And the specs main nuke not interacting at all with mastery is just plain fucking stupid.

[Galatan]

One very annoying thing about Frost come Legion will be your base artifact trait that can summon a copy of each of your swords that just kind of hovers off your shoulders. Its very similar to the Frost mage's stupid icicle thing currently on live. They just float there anchored motionless in the air near your shoulders and occasionally jabbing at something.

One thing i do like about frost is how incredibly tanky it feels compared to every other melee spec ive tried. It does seem like it will get dull pretty fast though. And the specs main nuke not interacting at all with mastery is just plain fucking stupid.

Is there a reason why frost is tankier than other melees?

[Deleted]

Is there a reason why frost is tankier than other melees?

No mobility. DK is the class with the least mobility in the game. Possibly only rivaled by Warlock in LGN (if lock doesn;t take mobility talent)

[Galatan]

No mobility. DK is the class with the least mobility in the game. Possibly only rivaled by Warlock in LGN (if lock doesn;t take mobility talent)

But what are the abilities or passives that make them tankier than other melees?

[Deleted]

But what are the abilities or passives that make them tankier than other melees?

Maybe he's referring to Death Strike healing 300% more when in Icebound fortitude? Hard to say

[rda]

Maybe he's referring to Death Strike healing 300% more when in Icebound fortitude? Hard to say

It's the same for Unholy.

I don't see how Frost is tankier than Unholy. In fact, I don't see how it is tankier than, say, Ret or Arms. I might be missing something, I'd appreciate some details.

[Deleted]

It's the same for Unholy.

I don't see how Frost is tankier than Unholy. In fact, I don't see how it is tankier than, say, Ret or Arms. I might be missing something, I'd appreciate some details.

It's not. That 300% is from Frost Artifact Trait. With relics can be raised to 600% too.

Personally I still prefer Unholy with his ghoul shield for 90% dmg reduction for 10sec

[rda]

On topic: my issues with Unholy - (a) pet, (b) larger portion of the damage done as dots, dots are slow. I also like Frost procs much better.

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It's not. That 300% is from Frost Artifact Trait. With relics can be raised to 600% too.

Got it. That's something then.

[Icedcoffeee]

Frost might feel tanky, but it doesn't seem to actually be tanky. IBF is a surprisingly weak defensive, and our self healing is pretty poor now that we are forced to rely solely on Death Strike. That DS is buffed only while IBF is active is pretty lame, and means we basically have one "oh shit" button. We have some baked-in passive damage reduction through our artifact, though, although I'm not sure how impactful that will prove. In any event, Unholy seems to be all around better from a survivability/mobility/utility perspective.

[Nihilan]

But what are the abilities or passives that make them tankier than other melees?

Aside from the buffed DS procs for healing, there is a talent that makes your autoattacks stack a damage shield on you. I have no idea how high it can get, but ive seen it get up to over 100k after about 5-7 seconds of not taking damage. Frost also has a lot of passive haste/autoattack speed buffs, which causes the shield to stack faster. They also get the standard defensive package other DK specs get as well.

I havent levelled my Frosty past L103 yet, but i have been in multiple situations where i was face tanking elites for other players. Notably Fury Warriors and Feral Druids. All in all, i never felt threatened. You can always grip over a trash mob for the post kill DS heal as well.

With Frost's almost complete lack of mobility, it feels to me that Blizzard is giving players the option of speccing for a slow but highly durable juggernaut build instead.

[Zenny]

With Frost's almost complete lack of mobility, it feels to me that Blizzard is giving players the option of speccing for a slow but highly durable juggernaut build instead.

Which is a perfectly valid approach to take and is something that fits Frost quite thematically. The problem is that it really needs to be tuned correctly.

[rda]

Aside from the buffed DS procs for healing, there is a talent that makes your autoattacks stack a damage shield on you. I have no idea how high it can get, but ive seen it get up to over 100k after about 5-7 seconds of not taking damage. Frost also has a lot of passive haste/autoattack speed buffs, which causes the shield to stack faster. They also get the standard defensive package other DK specs get as well.

For those interested: it's called Permafrost - "When you deal damage with auto attacks, gain an absorb shield equal to 30% of the damage dealt."

http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=207200/permafrost

That's quite something, I should say. It'll be fun if Unholy is going to be a squishier but more mobile option (it suits Unholy, actually, Death Coils are ranged damage, etc) and Frost is going to be a tankier but less mobile option. I like it.

[Deleted]

http://onuraslan.github.io/SummonSto...ost/index.html

"DW Frost is competitive and viable as is Unholy in Hellfire Citadel, with 2h Frost no longer being viable. Once Unholy acquires Reaper's Harvest, it will be stronger for AoE when and if NP is allowed to tick on a high number of targets for a decent amount of time. However, DW Frost’s superiority for single target and priority target DPS makes up for that fact that it’s slightly behind in AoE. Whether you should play Unholy or DWF will largely depend on the type of encounter. For example, an encounter like Kormrok would be best for DWF because the Grasping Hands calls for burst AoE damage (at which DWF excels at) and is primarily single target. Whereas an encounter like Xhul’horac would be superior for Unholy because the adds are all spread throughout the room, allowing Necrotic Plague to tick for a long duration on a high amount of targets."

From Skullflower -currently a QA tester for Blizzard and formerly one of the top parsing DKs in the US #4 guild.

Also http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T18H.html (ST), http://www.simulationcraft.org/repor..._T18H_AOE.html (4+ sustained targets), http://www.simulationcraft.org/repor..._AddWaves.html (ST with add waves).

Summonstone's out of date. Reaper's Harvest isn't effective with current gear levels.

No one cares about simulations for Heroic. Let's look at the mythic ones.


http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T18M.html


Frost players want to think Frost is the better spec but it really isn't.

[RuneDK]

I prefer frost...but know it's the inferior spec...if anyone truly believes it's competing with unholy then they're not just delusion but plain stupid. Sorry for the harsh words and hopefully I don't get infracted but....whatever.

[Fenrkyr]

I dislike unholy due mainly to the pet and because its the spec of "death by a thousand cuts". It is better in PVE and always will be, but it just FEELS weak to me. It feels like it should be standing in the back with the casters and other weaklings, while frost feels more visceral and physical even though it does similar levels of magical damage.

[Deleted]

In MoP unholy was perfect, but I didn't try it Cata so I can't compare. But I literally blew up healers in 5 seconds in 3's and a lot of the times they died, due to strong dots>fat necrotic stacks> and soul reaper critting hard when they got to 20% hp. I caught so many healers with this combo, it was awesome and rewarding. You think that is death by a thousand cuts? No, but currently in legion sure, I can agree.

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Also a lot of gladiator DK's saying both frost and unholy is in a good spot in Legion.

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Just different, which is fine!

[Deleted]

cata unholy was just great, NS, great lichborne selfhealing, best expansion as dk for me

[rda]

Also a lot of gladiator DK's saying both frost and unholy is in a good spot in Legion.

From what I saw gladiator DKs say unholy is crap (many reasons: no hard-hitters, very small utility, squishy). And frost is better than unholy, but it's damn slow with laughable gap closers, so if you want a melee, just take a warrior, or even an enha.

[Alanar]

Unholy is far from being unpopular. Actually, it was the most used pvp spec 'till recently, and was the way to go for pve both in Cata and Pandaria (and even in WoD, if you can play around BoS) after you got decent equip.

Frost is just infamous, that's why it has a lot of talk around it.

Also, the reason Unholy is seen badly by a minority in the dk community, is just the pet. A lot of people don't like pet classes, or simply don't want to hang around with a minion following them.

100% true, I just started playing unholy again, last time I played it was in wrath and one small thing that annoyed me right from the bat was that my pet felt like a doll I pulled with me everywhere I go.. then I switched back to frost again..