Study: Spanking increases childhood defiance and mental health issues

[RyanEX]

Well, knowing that the US was one of the last civilized countries to abolish legal slavery, I don't think it is something that should be referenced with pride in this context.

And yes, I know the experience. Not as a parent, but I have interacted with children, and I was a child myself, you know. I know for a fact that you can deliver your point without resorting to violence. If you can't, then you don't know what you are doing. You can deliver your point to the most spoiled child in the universe, if you don't suck at communication.


And that is one of the ways to do it (continuing my comment). Thanks!


Eh, sorry, but if an adult spanks a defenseless child, then it IS the adult's fault. No one says the kid is blameless, but it hardly warrants such a barbaric act. If a kid is wired wrong, as you say, then what does spanking accomplish? Does it turn the kid's wiring around somehow? Violence is not an answer. Explaining to the kid why what they do is wrong is an answer. You don't explain anything by beating them up, you just teach them to bow before an authority.

I could turn that around and say how if the child is wired wrong NOT spanking the child won't do anything either. And I reiterate. I'm not saying to spank the child for every little thing.

[Aori]

I'm not trying to offend you and even though I personally am not pro-spanking I feel like I can sympathize a little. I've babysat and taking care of a lot of kids and many of them weren't the most tolerable or best behaved. Some little children can drive you insane and I think sometimes we let our primitive instincts take control (I mean like a knee-jerk reaction). I'm not sure if this is the case for you or maybe it's something different.

However, at the end of the day I have to calm my mind and lead by example.

But I'm not a parent so I don't know entirely.

Being a parent is a learning experience, you're going to fuck up. Every child is unique and there is no right way to raise one, you have to find what works. I've only once or twice spanked my child on emotion when she was pushing her boundaries to far.

I've only spanked my child with open palm and shes never had a bare bottom spanking from me. Her mother is a different story and how shes administers punishment has been a point of contention. I know shes and her now husband used a belt on my daughter at the least and it isn't something I agree with.

So I do believe spanking can go to far and crosses into the realm of abuse.

[unfilteredJW]

I got as far as Buckiepoo saying parents should be seen as a threat and I pretty much had to back off from this thread.

El oh fucking El.

[Luxxor]

How these threads always go.

Just like every study posted on the subject is based on correlation. Now we supposedly have a study based on these studies and its somehow better.

Every child is different, behavior has a ton of variables. Batman talking about things he has no clue about, as usual.

[May90]

I could turn that around and say how if the child is wired wrong NOT spanking the child won't do anything either. And I reiterate. I'm not saying to spank the child for every little thing.

But what does it mean "wired wrong"? Are you implying that some children are simply unable to see the reason and have to be spanked for that? That seems like a very bad premise for me: not only it serves to justify the unnecessary violence, but it also implies that some kids are just "bad" and don't deserve a decent treatment. Even if that was true, I don't think it justifies spanking.

Being a parent is a learning experience, you're going to fuck up. Every child is unique and there is no right way to raise one, you have to find what works.

Well, maybe you can avoid making the most obvious mistakes, for starters, such as using brute force? No need to have 10 years of experience for that, I think.

[Aori]

Well, maybe you can avoid making the most obvious mistakes, for starters, such as using brutal force? No need to have 10 years of experience for that, I think.

I've never used brutal force on my child.

[May90]

I've never used brutal force on my child.

Oops, I meant "brute force". Correcting it now.

I mean, I understand that sometimes it can be hard to deal with a child, and emotional irrational decisions are not something to be unexpected. I just don't see why one would want to rationalize this behavior. A mistake is a mistake, we all make mistakes. No need to try to make it look like our mistake is somehow not one.

[The Casualty]

But what does it mean "wired wrong"?

Why are you asking? They are quoting you. Surely when you first said it, you had some idea in mind of what that meant.

Perhaps you need to clarify to further the discussion.

[May90]

Why are you asking? They are quoting you. Surely when you first said it, you had some idea in mind of what that meant.

Perhaps you need to clarify to further the discussion.

I, in turn, was responding to someone else who used this term.

[hrugner]

Parents that care, note I am talking about spanking not beating, not hitting a child out of anger.

People who don't understand how to discipline a child or think spanking is bad for them, please don't breed.

I pity people who find it necessary. Three kids in and they're fine. It has nothing to do with caring, parents who spank lack the knowledge of alternatives. It's basic ignorance.

[May90]

I pity people who find it necessary. Three kids in and they're fine. It has nothing to do with caring, parents who spank lack the knowledge of alternatives. It's basic ignorance.

I'd say not ignorance, but stupidity. Can't imagine what goes in the head of a person who consciously thinks, "Hmm, I think it is a good idea to spank my child now". I can somewhat understand it being done out of frustration, even though expressing frustration in such a way seems insane to me - but thinking this is the right thing to do... *shrugs* Some things in our society, I guess, I'll never understand.

Infracted - enough with belittling others for having a different opinion

[Toxigen]

Children are supposed to fear their parents.

Kids don't these days.

All I see are miserable, spoiled little shits.

Modern day parenting is a lazy joke.

[Barnfargen]

Again, I'm not a parent- nor a psychologist. In other words, I'm not endorsing or recommending this- only bringing it up as it seemed relevant. I only recalled reading that time outs and other punishments were considered harmful in newspapers and dug up a few links.

That being said, according to the Wikipedia link in my post, the only description of "firm" I could find is:






I, personally, find it difficult to believe that would be "harmful". To be clear, I'm in Canada and we had a nationwide "spank debate" where this was covered in the papers as the courts were determining if spanking was illegal or not. We even had Canadians fleeing to the States as "refugees" when the courts determined that while spanking wasn't abusive, leaving marks (such as bruises) was. They were the use the "paddle/belt" type and several states protected such punishment if you were Christian as I recall.

In any case, I do recall one article that made personal sense to me: The rare, odd, swat to get attention (such as seeing your kid run across the street without looking when a car is coming) was a natural reflex. A 'Stop! Listen NOW!' sort of thing.

We also have doctors recommending that sugar be a controlled substance like alcohol- no sugar (including natural fruit juice, with no added sugar) should be allowed to minors...

So yeah, I'm certainly not suggesting you're raising your child incorrectly. (Hell, I got swatted...maybe even spanked once as a child. Can't really remember). This thread seems to be intended to argue the validity of spanking according to studies... so pointing out studies that say any punishment, whatsoever, is dangerous and harmful seemed relevant.

I wasn't offended before and it's posts like this that make me wish we had a like button. Clearly this is a sensitive subject for both sides but you came in and contributed without being offensive to either side and without reading malice in a response that asked you a question. Sadly I have nothing additional to add to the original topic but wanted to drop in and say good form.

[zenkai]

I pity people who find it necessary. Three kids in and they're fine. It has nothing to do with caring, parents who spank lack the knowledge of alternatives. It's basic ignorance.

Yeah teaching kids there are negative consequences for their actions is such a wrong thing to do.

[May90]

Yeah teaching kids there are negative consequences for their actions is such a wrong thing to do.

This straw man implies that spanking is the only way to teach kids that.

[hrugner]

Yeah teaching kids there are negative consequences for their actions is such a wrong thing to do.

By manually punishing you're separating the consequence from the wrong action; by doing this you teach them that getting caught is a wrong thing to do. That's a useful lesson in many ways, but it won't help with the offending action.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I was spanked, a LOT, as a child. It actually largely just aided in humiliating and enraging me. I was about as defiant as one could get. Even between 5-10 years of age I'd give my father a shit-eating look when he spanked me. In my teens I'd throw him over my shoulder and get into outright fights with him. I refused to be lay low without giving something back in turn.

You know what worked oddly well?

Actually having a proper reward/discipline system not based around physical abuse that INCENTIVIZED me to do good. Something we had going for a couple of years before my family fell apart and everything devolved back into a not-so-complex caveman shit-fest. It's one of the reasons I grew up having a distaste for overbearing, authoritarian governments and systems based on penalizing over reward. I see them as inferior, unintelligent, and undeserving of my loyalty.

[zenkai]

By manually punishing you're separating the consequence from the wrong action; by doing this you teach them that getting caught is a wrong thing to do. That's a useful lesson in many ways, but it won't help with the offending action.

You really believe that? LMAO

How many of you have kids that are over 18? *raises hand* and mind is a good kid who isn't a POS like most kids his age

[TITAN308]

This thread reeks of participation ribbons and trophies. lol

[Sirinial]

i bet you are against vaccinations too.

From those "reputable" researchers.