Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Tome]

Totalbiscuit and Jesse Cox weigh in on the issue

They really seem like they have't checked stuff up about the issue at all.

They keep mentioning old arguments that has already been debunked.

[Eliseus]

Then I guess you've never read any one of my posts, then, if you call me 'biased' and that what I said 'adds nothing of value'. Unless, of course, you somehow equate 'disagrees with me' to 'adds nothing of value', in this situation. Many times, over this thread, I've explained the main reason Blizzard closed Nostalrius, how simply saying "Nostalrius did it, how can't Blizzard do it" is objectively wrong, I have shown quotes from the developers to back up what I was saying, etc.

But hey, I guess evidence that goes against your views and disproves your claims are simply 'adding nothing of value' and therefore must be ignored, right? Gotta keep that echo-chamber pristine, eh?


You know that wind you just felt? It was the point just flying by you over your head. Or, if you prefer, I can say you're strawmanning. You pick. I'm not comparing 'science' to 'business'. I'm simply pointing out how objectively wrong (not to mention certain choice words I won't mention) is to call Blizzard 'incompetent'. If there was any ounce of truth to that statement, Blizzard, as a business, wouldn't be even half as successful as they are today.

Interesting that so many people have the same view towards you. You know what they say, if you can't spot the crazy person on the bus, it's you.

[Shampro]

They really seem like they have't checked stuff up about the issue at all.

They keep mentioning old arguments that has already been debunked.

Debunked by whom? Mark Kern?

[Eliseus]

Nost people need to get a champion that at least can get a call back. This looser keeps confirming everything said about him.

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/72...654529?lang=es

I agree, will it be you? Tell me when you get that call back.

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Debunked by whom? Mark Kern?

And if it is? Where is your sources he is wrong.

[gamingmuscle]

Becouse players always want to be at maximum efficienci with gear and if games allowes them to do this they will do it. And no it isnt playrs problem it is game what is supostu defend them from being burned out.

Then you should practice more. With a few exceptions the couple ilevels you may gain on a few slots is likely to contribute less than more practice at the encounter.

No it certainly is a player problem, but it is one blizzard could fix by making all difficulties on the same lock out. But I imagine that would anger people even more.

Oh yeah and BTW LFR offers nothing? LFR actualy offer the biggest possible reward. Raiding content. It offerts you to see raid content for free and this is biggest reward what you can get in WoW. And it is also reason why most players doesnt want bother with other difficulty levels. Gear and loot simply isnt rewarding enough to keep players interested in raiding anymore. Loot used be tool not players goal.

Irrelevant we were discussing progression type raiding. Seeing the content has no bearing on this.

Most people never bothered with any raiding. Raiding was a fringe activity before lfr. Attempted by around than 5% of the populations, completed by far far less.

[willemh]

Then you should practice more. With a few exceptions the couple ilevels you may gain on a few slots is likely to contribute less than more practice at the encounter.

No it certainly is a player problem, but it is one blizzard could fix by making all difficulties on the same lock out. But I imagine that would anger people even more.



Irrelevant we were discussing progression type raiding. Seeing the content has no bearing on this.

Most people never bothered with any raiding. Raiding was a fringe activity before lfr. Attempted by around than 5% of the populations, completed by far far less.

Raiding was the core of the game, even in vanilla. The whole game, communities, economy and gameplay would have collapsed if there woudn't have been any raids. People say 5% of the players raided, but forget that that 5% (which really wasn't 5%, more like 15%) was spending about 5x more time and was also playing 5x more efficient then the other 95% who wasn't raiding. They were the backbone of the wow community, server community, guild community, economy, gameplay guides, everything. Without these passionate and extremely active players WoW certainly woudnt have been this succesfull.

Anyone putting raiding in a niche corner really has no proper view of the game and how it worked back in vanilla/tbc.

[kary]

Raiding was the core of the game, even in vanilla. The whole game, communities, economy and gameplay would have collapsed if there woudn't have been any raids. People say 5% of the players raided, but forget that that 5% (which really wasn't 5%, more like 15%) was spending about 5x more time and was also playing 5x more efficient then the other 95% who wasn't raiding. They were the backbone of the wow community, server community, guild community, economy, gameplay guides, everything. Without these passionate and extremely active players WoW certainly woudnt have been this succesfull.

Anyone putting raiding in a niche corner really has no proper view of the game and how it worked back in vanilla/tbc.

shhh don't clue them in. They really thought that farming and doing brd was what vanilla was about

[Gadzooks]

Perl was around in vanilla, and xperl was just a unitframe mod. A mediocre one, too.

Wasn't Titan Panels the go-to raid frames in Vanilla? I know we urged everyone in our raid team to use something, forget what. We also had the healers run decursive and meters, and run them after every attempt. The only one I ran was a threat meter, as a rogue. I think our recommended package was like 6 mods - life was easier back then, mod-wise.

[kary]

Wasn't Titan Panels the go-to raid frames in Vanilla? I know we urged everyone in our raid team to use something, forget what. We also had the healers run decursive and meters, and run them after every attempt. The only one I ran was a threat meter, as a rogue. I think our recommended package was like 6 mods - life was easier back then, mod-wise.

Titanpanels was more like a container that showed your stuff like durability%, gold

[Gadzooks]

Raiding was the core of the game, even in vanilla. The whole game, communities, economy and gameplay would have collapsed if there woudn't have been any raids. People say 5% of the players raided, but forget that that 5% (which really wasn't 5%, more like 15%) was spending about 5x more time and was also playing 5x more efficient then the other 95% who wasn't raiding. They were the backbone of the wow community, server community, guild community, economy, gameplay guides, everything. Without these passionate and extremely active players WoW certainly woudnt have been this succesfull.

Anyone putting raiding in a niche corner really has no proper view of the game and how it worked back in vanilla/tbc.

NO. I know your elitist ego wants that to be true, but it was a symbiotic relationship - raiders needed and bought the mats and pots and such that non-raiders gathered and made and sold. The entire game was an ecosystem, with support at all levels, feeding other parts of the game. Leveling was easily THE focus of the game, as it took so long, and there was so much to do. Raiding was a goal for *some* players, but not all.

I wouldnt and am not saying raiding shouldn't have existed, and that it wasnt part of the greater whole, but you're exaggerating it's place in the game wildly, and it's hilarious. Wow was successful because 6 million players bought subs - most of whom probably never stepped foot in a raid instance. The game would have died without them. Casual play paid for raids to continue to be made, along with everything else in the game.

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Titanpanels was more like a container that showed your stuff like durability%, gold

Something else then. it was 11 years ago. There was a raid frame we used in vanilla, and it wasnt perl.

[kary]

NO. I know your elitist ego wants that to be true, but it was a symbiotic relationship - raiders needed and bought the mats and pots and such that non-raiders gathered and made and sold. The entire game was an ecosystem, with support at all levels, feeding other parts of the game. Leveling was easily THE focus of the game, as it took so long, and there was so much to do. Raiding was a goal for *some* players, but not all.

I wouldnt and am not saying raiding shouldn't have existed, and that it wasnt part of the greater whole, but you're exaggerating it's place in the game wildly, and it's hilarious. Wow was successful because 6 million players bought subs - most of whom probably never stepped foot in a raid instance. The game would have died without them. Casual play paid for raids to continue to be made, along with everything else in the game.

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Something else then. it was 11 years ago. There was a raid frame we used in vanilla, and it wasnt perl.

Most raiders I know farmed their own pots in super efficient routes, lol

*I woudn't consider myself since I didn't farm, didn't use consumables and still got to huhuran

[gamingmuscle]

Raiding was the core of the game, even in vanilla. The whole game, communities, economy and gameplay would have collapsed if there woudn't have been any raids. People say 5% of the players raided, but forget that that 5% (which really wasn't 5%, more like 15%) was spending about 5x more time and was also playing 5x more efficient then the other 95% who wasn't raiding. They were the backbone of the wow community, server community, guild community, economy, gameplay guides, everything. Without these passionate and extremely active players WoW certainly woudnt have been this succesfull.

Anyone putting raiding in a niche corner really has no proper view of the game and how it worked back in vanilla/tbc.

I recall someone release stats years ago. Participation was very low. Pretty positive it was 5% for any kill and less than 1 for final kill. That may have been a specific tier, I failed to google it. But even 15% is fringe. It wasn't until LFR that raiding hit main stream. You may think raiding is core to the game, it certainly is for me. But during a time when most didn't even hit 60. No. No it wasn't. The core was leveling and playing with friends. Nowadays raiding may be core.

That community stuff I'm not sure I would contribute entirely to raiders, on my server some of the worst members of the community were pillars of the raiding subset. Some of it definitely, stategy formulation, number crunching. There is a subset of players that love that stuff and raiding may have provided them an outlet to explore those interests.

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Most raiders I know farmed their own pots in super efficient routes, lol

*I woudn't consider myself since I didn't farm, didn't use consumables and still got to huhuran

I had to farm like crazy, as a vanilla boomie I needed a huge supply of dark runes/mana pots and a lot of respec gold. I think without innervate or mana pots/dark runes I'd go oom with super complex rotation of keep MF up and cast SF after like 70-80 seconds. So some fights where I knew innervate wasn't going to be need until a while into it, I'd pop it at like 90% mana on myself so it would be up again when needed. And if a fight really dragged, running up hitting shit with my Lok'amir il Romathis=P

[Dormie]

Oh, if only Wow wasn't a game with dozens of servers while Nost was just one that slowly absorved people from all over because they knew it was stable.

You can't just do that, "hurr look at Nost and look at Blizzard sample empty real #3, Nost has more people there."
A better comparisson would be combining ALL blizzard servers from ALL regions then comparing the numbers agains the single Nost and even then it wouldn't be as great a comparisson as the one you tried to pass as proof of Nost being bigger than retail.

Next!

You're the one that needs to prove something here buddy. It obviously has support, you can block your ears all you want.

Because it was for free, make even the piece of **** WOD is free to play as it was Nost, and you will see how many people play it.
The only thing the Nost server proved, is how bad are the existing free to play MMOs.

And do not come back at me with the "but there are other privates non vanilla and they were not as succesful as Nos", because that has already been explained.

Stop pretending to known why people play. I think it's funny you people think more play cause it's free than the number that don't because it's illegal.

And no lol, it has only been explained in your head.

[kary]

I recall someone release stats years ago. Participation was very low. Pretty positive it was 5% for any kill and less than 1 for final kill. That may have been a specific tier, I failed to google it. But even 15% is fringe. It wasn't until LFR that raiding hit main stream. You may think raiding is core to the game, it certainly is for me. But during a time when most didn't even hit 60. No. No it wasn't. The core was leveling and playing with friends. Nowadays raiding may be core.

That community stuff I'm not sure I would contribute entirely to raiders, on my server some of the worst members of the community were pillars of the raiding subset. Some of it definitely, stategy formulation, number crunching. There is a subset of players that love that stuff and raiding may have provided them an outlet to explore those interests.

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I had to farm like crazy, as a vanilla boomie I needed a huge supply of dark runes and a lot of respec gold.

What was your progression? You didn't have to farm much until you were at/past c'thun, really.
At least imo. Most of the early vanilla bosses weren't dying because of numbers, but bad play.

[Gadzooks]

Most raiders I know farmed their own pots in super efficient routes, lol

*I woudn't consider myself since I didn't farm, didn't use consumables and still got to huhuran

*Of course they did*. That's the textbook answer here when you can't admit you're wrong.

[Azgraal]

You're the one that needs to prove something here buddy. It obviously has support, you can block your ears all you want.

It wasn't aimed at me that someone at Blizzard said the now infamous quote "You think you do but you don't". You're the ones campaigning for the revival of times long gone while exagerating the numbers of those likeminded, in the meantime.

[kary]

*Of course they did*. That's the textbook answer here when you can't admit you're wrong.

Lol.

So basically you're telling me that raiders didn't pick their own flowers? That's your point? Where am I wrong? Most raids had off days, and most people I know used to abuse felwood at the dead of night to get their raid consumables. I played a holy paladin back then, so I didn't need any consumables (lol 100% illumination)

[gamingmuscle]

What was your progression? You didn't have to farm much until you were at/past c'thun, really.
At least imo. Most of the early vanilla bosses weren't dying because of numbers, but bad play.

You had to farm a lot if you had to respec as often as I did, and the drop rate on dark runes wasn't great. I was the switch hitter dps/healer. I'd respec 7+ times a raid week easy. I didn't get to see sub 50g respecs till BC lol.

We were at C'thun, I think the guild got it, but I missed that night for some reason. But something happened and we lost progress on it for some reason and ultimately didn't get far into naxx either cause of it. Prolly some drama in the core raiders. Half the raid were real life friends and whenever one of them got upset and bail they'd all stop showing up. Screwed up TBC progression too.

[kary]

You had to farm a lot if you had to respec as often as I did, and the drop rate on dark runes wasn't great. I was the switch hitter dps/healer. I'd respec 7+ times a raid week easy. I didn't get to see sub 50g respecs till BC lol.

We were at C'thun, I think the guild got it, but I missed that night for some reason. But something happened and we lost progress on it for some reason and ultimately didn't get far into naxx either cause of it. Prolly some drama in the core raiders. Half the raid were real life friends and whenever one of them got upset and bail they'd all stop showing up. Screwed up TBC progression too.

Yeah as you said you were a moonkin I could understand. Pigeonholing was such that since there was no real viable offspec, and illumination was so low into holy, I could farm with that spec. Hell, I don't even remember ever running OOM till cata as a holy paladin. And even during cata it was rare.

Also stories like yours are why dual spec was a thing
I remember how annoying it was during naxx 25 to constantly respec my dk between dps and tank specs.

[KrazyK923]

They really seem like they have't checked stuff up about the issue at all.

They keep mentioning old arguments that has already been debunked.

Debunked? lol, no.

They just don't agree with you.