Pathfinder achievement looking pretty steep to unlock a core ability

[Deleted]

Steep. God you guys you just are so lazy. It's an unlock based on playing the game and doing stuff in the game.

You really gonna call that steep? I mean c'mon it's not like you have to go kill mythic bosses or get 3k arena rating.

[SirCowdog]

I guess for alts?

Which, again, doesn't change the fact that you, as a player, have ALREADY done everything. Just because it's a different character doesn't change that fact.

Instead of getting to enjoy flight for most of the expansion, you're forced to only use it after you're more or less already done with the expansion. Which is the point: stretch out the content and pad the subscription profits as much as possible instead of actually creating options for players. It's a shame, really.

[Kazgrel]

All these posts about how flying destroyed the game, yet it's been present for majority of the game's life. If it had destroyed the game, it wouldn't be running up to this point.

[Yemkela]

Because we already earned flying 8 years ago. Blizzard is selling the same reward over and over.

Just the same as gear and max level... every expansion, we play a new version of the same game. It has always been this way.

[Deleted]

Just the same as gear and max level... every expansion, we play a new version of the same game. It has always been this way.

Flying is not comparable to gear. Flying actually is an intrinsic reward.

Actually it is more comparable to the feeling you had when you defeated Illidan the first time.

I played a ton of hours in TBC to get flying, and in special, the netherdrake. But still blizzard wants me to regain the convenience over and over, while i am sure i already invested hundreds of hours in flying and flying mounts. The mounts itself are taking time enough to get them. The ability itself does not need to be another skinner box.

Literally blizzard wants to condition players to explore all of the Broken isle and to play the content they chose to get flying back. The greatest intrinsic reward for playing the least fun content. At least when we refer to WoD as example.

Obviously, blizzard has no other ways to get people to explore their world.

[Mafic]

Flying is not comparable to gear. Flying actually is an intrinsic reward.

+1

Exactly that is why it doesn't fit the MMORPG progression model of having to re-earn it. What Blizz is doing is a square peg into a round hole.

[rhorle]

Void of things I'd like to do which is not half the shit listed as part of the achievement and is also largely not part of the gearing process. I'm sorry I don't consider going out of my to acquire the power I had (flying) particularly fun. As for not doing it right, the developers failed to make the "right" way clear it's still once again on them. Pathfinder is an utter failure.

You never had the ability to fly in Draenor or Broken shores. So you aren't going out of the way to acquire the power you had. You clearly don't want to fly then because you aren't willing to do things required for what you want. There is no winning with arguments like that as any game design choice will always be the wrong one until it is catered to your exactly whims and desires.

[Yemkela]

Actually I'm not sure why I'm talking in this thread :P it's clear that no one's opinion on this subject will change one way or the other. The people who feel entitled to flying will continue to feel entitled to it. The people who are fine with this system will never be convinced that this system is a problem.

[Stormspellz]

+1

Exactly that is why it doesn't fit the MMORPG progression model of having to re-earn it. What Blizz is doing is a square peg into a round hole.

you aren't re earning it you are earning it for the broken isle, the patch lands and you don't lose flying in the rest of the game.

[Mafic]

you aren't re earning it you are earning it for the broken isle, the patch lands and you don't lose flying in the rest of the game.

If you can't use in content that is relevant to you at the time while you progress that defeats the entire point of it.

[rhorle]

Don't forget that when you finally DO unlock flying, there isn't anything worthy to use it on because you've already done everything. The logic of the pathfinder unlock doesn't even make sense.

Then why is flying a big deal if there is nothing worthy to use it on? You are making the argument that flying is pointless because anything flying is worthy for can be done with out flying. So why complain about pathfinder not making sense if flying isn't required to do stuff? It makes flying a convenience for those who have earned it by doing things that would be way easier with flying. Its the same logic behind why the high item level gear is given at the end of the expansion. It is worthless for world content because you've already done it but makes that world content more convenient to finish out or earn on alts (with catch-up gear systems).

[Mafic]

It doesn't exactly help his argument that we had to "re-earn" it every single expansion to date anyway. Sure, for the first three all it required was a certain level and a fee, but it was never just enabled.

At level cap you simply handed over gold which was one of the conditions and the others was reaching level cap (exception being Cata). Thus, you were able to use it in relevant content from day 1 of the expansion.

Having to re-earn it and not being able to not use in relevant content makes it effectively removed from the game.

- - - Updated - - -

Then why is flying a big deal if there is nothing worthy to use it on? You are making the argument that flying is pointless because anything flying is worthy for can be done with out flying. So why complain about pathfinder not making sense if flying isn't required to do stuff? It makes flying a convenience for those who have earned it by doing things that would be way easier with flying. Its the same logic behind why the high item level gear is given at the end of the expansion. It is worthless for world content because you've already done it but makes that world content more convenient to finish out or earn on alts (with catch-up gear systems).

Flying usage is both utility and fun...it it is used to accomplish goals or to have fun. Do people use flight paths just for fun? I am not sure, maybe people like that exist, but most people don't use flight paths for fun...that I am sure of.

[rhorle]

Didn't realize I needed to go to this level of detail, but since you're interested, I'll probably buy Legion and re-sub when the next patch, the patch actually allowing flying, is on the PTR and flying works on the PTR. So I'll take my month or so to get the lead-up achievements and be good to go when the patch goes live. That will likely be fall 2017.

But you are still willing to do everything with out flying. Leveling up, grinding out the achievement requirements, etc. Just so you can fly. But why do you need the ability to fly when you clearly don't enjoy anything else in the game because you are unwilling to subscribe to do anything else.

- - - Updated - - -

Because we already earned flying 8 years ago. Blizzard is selling the same reward over and over.

Like gear over and over? Like levels over and over? Like quests over and over? Like mounts over and over? Like professions over and over? Every expansion has had you earn flying for that expansion. It wasn't just handed to you because you learned it once. Cataclysm was the exception because of the old world revamp and lack of new continent.

You clearly have no major issue with the same reward over and over as you still play the game. If you don't still play the game then flying isn't an issue because you don't play the game and haven't been sold the same reward over and over because you haven't been buying.

- - - Updated - - -

Flying is not comparable to gear. Flying actually is an intrinsic reward.

An intrinsic reward that wasn't introduced to the game until the first expansion. An intrinsic reward that isn't given until after leveling up through the later expansions. An intrinsic reward that wouldn't have been missed if it wasn't given in Burning Crusade in the first place. You clearly don't know what the word intrinsic means. Flying isn't essential as WoD proves. Flying isn't natural as their is little flying required or related content.

[SirCowdog]

You are making the argument that flying is pointless because anything flying is worthy for can be done with out flying.

Please, I think you're misunderstanding me. Flying IS pointless in a WoD style design, and THAT is a shame. A missed opportunity to create more options for players to enjoy the content. A dogged adherence to a more simplified world design. Flying is wasted on it.

I suppose you could twist that to mean that flying is worthless, but it's actually the overall world design that makes it so, not flying itself.

It makes flying a convenience for those who have earned it by doing things that would be way easier with flying. Its the same logic behind why the high item level gear is given at the end of the expansion.

The difference between flying an high-end gear is that high-end gear allows you to progress through whatever future content that comes after. It allows you to be ready for the next raid tier, or the next dungeon, or quest. With flying, there is no future content. You only get it when there's nothing left. Do you see the difference?

Now, if flying started out weak in the beginning of the expansion, then slowly improved over the course of the expansion, your comparison would be more accurate. I would actually be in favor of a system where flight slowly improved the more content you completed. But that's not what's happening. Right now flight is too binary. It's either off while you still have content to complete, or on after there's nothing left. That's a problem, wouldn't you agree?

[rhorle]

If you can't use in content that is relevant to you at the time while you progress that defeats the entire point of it.

But I don't see you asking for flying while leveling. Is leveling relevant to you? You can't think of anything you would do after earning the achievement for Pathfinder in Legion? You don't do anything now in WoD since gaining the pathfinder achievement?

[Onikaroshi]

I swear, I have been on the I Don't Care line of the flying debate for this whole time but the pro-flyers attitudes are seriously pushing me toward the anti-flight crowd.... They want flight, but they don't want to work for it, and they want flight for what? To get from point A to point B faster? Idk, they're adding things to make ground mounts less of a pain in legion so really... these attitudes make me an anti-flyer so, grats on nothing I guess >.>

[Deleted]

Like gear over and over?

Gear is an extrinsic reward. Not comparable.

Like levels over and over?

.. you are actually progressing your chars on leveling and..

Like quests over and over?

.. get more powerful gear..

The ability to fly stays the same.

Like mounts over and over?

But not the same mounts. You wont rerun ICC if you got Invincible already.

Like professions over and over?

You get new extrinsic rewards from professions.

Every expansion has had you earn flying for that expansion.

No, in most expacs you actually just had to pay some gold.

It wasn't just handed to you because you learned it once. Cataclysm was the exception because of the old world revamp and lack of new continent.

Cataclysm was the only well implemented solution onto that. And not reusing the exact same ability as a reward over and over. You know, when your low level mage learns frostbolt, he hasnt to relearn it for the next expac. You dont have to farm for the same mount you already got last year. And no, you didnt have to level up to 60 again in TBC. You leveled up to 70. As you do not level up to 100 again in legion, but to 110.

You clearly have no major issue with the same reward over and over as you still play the game.

I actually dont play the game, as there is no new content. I am interested in novelty, and blizzard isnt delivering that. Infact, they just reuse the same rewards and the same content for new extrinsic rewards over and over.

If you don't still play the game then flying isn't an issue because you don't play the game and haven't been sold the same reward over and over because you haven't been buying.

I will play the game when there is new content. With legion. And i hope for a better solution than trying to sell the same old smelly carrot the 4th time.

What about new innovative carrots? As like mounted combat? Flying mounted combat? What about completely new ideas to reward the players for playing? And not just reusing the old carrot over and over?

What about actually investing development effort in creating new intrinsic and extrinsic rewards?

[Synadrasa]

Flying breaks so many parts of the game. It breaks social interaction by emptying the world, questing, pvp, traversing terrain and overall makes the world smaller. On top of that it's not really interesting, I mean it can make certain vantage points more beautiful but there is no gameplay flying adds other than flying in a straight line and going afk because you're lazy.

[Arkura]

It's a bit different this time as this meta is something you can work on from the beginning of the expansion and not 2 patches into the expansion.

[SirCowdog]

But I don't see you asking for flying while leveling. Is leveling relevant to you? You can't think of anything you would do after earning the achievement for Pathfinder in Legion? You don't do anything now in WoD since gaining the pathfinder achievement?

I think that with the way in which zone scaling works, that leveling might have the opportunity to become more relevant than it's been in the past. And thus maybe flying could also be more relevant than it's been in the past as well.