Pathfinder achievement looking pretty steep to unlock a core ability

[Deleted]

It isn't being taken away from players. You can fly in every area you earned the skill to fly in. This is the problem with your argument. You based it on delusions and ignorance.

Sure it has been taken away. You get it back at the end of the expac, playing some content you wouldnt play otherwise.. as like luring everyone into exploring everything, and as like playing some dull grind quests as like in WoD.

Actually, your idea is hypocrisy. "It isnt removed as its available when the expac is over"..

So, expect the fact we probably will get another one and a half content drought after legion, we exactly wont have flying while the most interesting phase in playing the game. You will get it after "Game over".

Sure, it is great to continue to play civilization after you had victory.. but it's not the same, what do you think?

You get a reward which allows you to see everything after you saw everything.

[Darkeon]

Being afk in the garrison or being flying afk above the garrison is the exact same thing.

Had it come earlier, than at the very end of the expansion once all the content is exhausted and consumed, I would be out finishing up content and\or on alts
So while flying wouldn't fix a sub-par expansion, it could certainly had be better used than the way it was implemented.

[rhorle]

No. Sorry, you misquote me.

No, you are ignoring your own words. If gearing is extrinsic and not comparable then leveling is equally not comparable. But you stated that leveling is intrinsic and gearing isn't. Gearing in intrinsic to player progression in WoW. It always has been. Levels are meaningless with out gear.

Good question. Cataclysm did it right. Tell the devs to do it like in cataclysm.

They are. You are required to have a certain skill to fly in certain zones. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=90267/f...asters-license Legion and Draenor both used the same. MoP also did it different then Cataclysm but I don't see you saying the MoP method was flawed. Was Wotlk flawed as well? Was BC flawed as well? MoP, Wotlk, and BC all functioned different then cataclysm.

[Deleted]

Yes. And? Now you think, after 8 years of its existence, it is ok to take it away from the players?

Why do people like to be dishonest for argument sake? Flying isn't being taken away.

Legion is not WoD. It's time to debate Legion for what it presents, not for how bad WoD was.

[rhorle]

Sure it has been taken away. You get it back at the end of the expac, playing some content you wouldnt play otherwise.. as like luring everyone into exploring everything, and as like playing some dull grind quests as like in WoD.

If it has been taken away how come I could still fly in Pandaria, Kalimdor, Eastern Kingdoms, Northrend, Outlands, and Deepholm prior to 6.2? You don't get it back at the end of the expansion in WoD you earn it at the end. In order to get something back you have to be able to have that something in the first.

If exploring everything is bad and playing some dull grind quests are bad then what exactly do you need flying for?

[Deleted]

Had it come earlier, than at the very end of the expansion once all the content is exhausted and consumed, I would be out finishing up content and\or on alts
So while flying wouldn't fix a sub-par expansion, it could certainly had be better used than the way it was implemented.

Yes, it just had come earlier, together with more relevant world content. But that was the WoD's mistake.

But this is not WoD, flying needs to be discussed according the content Legion presents.

[Deleted]

If someone can explain me, but i don't understand the whole flying thing at all.

First we have a 1000ish pages thread about nostalrius and how better vanilla was, but if blizzard "removes" stuff like flying or Lfr we would have a 1000ish thread about "no flying no sub" or "no lfr no sub"

Second, flying should be LATER endgame content not early endgame content, because it breaks much. I am totally with you than time gating that kind of content feels weird, but what are the other options?
You can't compare it to WoD, because you had everything there in your garrison, but with legion you have so much outdoor content (it seems to be that way at least what i saw from alpha), like professions, world quests, etc. Flying would trivialize that. I compare it to TBC when i begun playing the game. I didn't play vanilla to horde gold i started from zero. It took me like half a year into the expansions when i could purchase flying. I get why no one complaint in the past, because it needed a certain amount of time at least for me, but it was not time gaited.

Maybe a good solution would be to unlook 60% flying with the first step and than the 280% flying with the second and 310% with a third?

[Deleted]

First we have a 1000ish pages thread about nostalrius and how better vanilla was, but if blizzard "removes" stuff like flying or Lfr we would have a 1000ish thread about "no flying no sub" or "no lfr no sub"

Not the same people, except for the two or three that just want to see WoW burn.

[Darkeon]

Yes, it just had come earlier, together with more relevant world content. But that was the WoD's mistake.

But this is not WoD, flying needs to be discussed according the content Legion presents.

According to the content Legion presents AND the way Flying is handled. So far, I'm not that optimistic about that bit.

[gushDH]

Remember when there was no flying and you actually saw people in the world? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.

I would be so happy if flying was completely removed from the game. It killed pvp servers and damaged the social part of the game.

[Deleted]

According to the content Legion presents AND the way Flying is handled. So far, I'm not that optimistic about that bit.

The content part is there and it's good so far. The flying? The part one gives faster mount speed, so it's a step.

[Darkeon]

Remember when there was no flying and you actually saw people in the world? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.

I would be so happy if flying was completely removed from the game. It killed pvp servers and damaged the social part of the game.

Remember when it was TBC and WotLK and there was flying and you actually saw people in the world? Damn those were the days!

[Schizoide]

But you will in order to gain flying. You are eating poisoned pizza. That is being a hypocrite.

You responded to my previous post, so I know you read it. You know I won't play until they allow me to fly. Are you deliberately misconstruing that to mean I find the Pathfinder achievement unacceptable, which is something I never said?

Please post in good faith.

[Darkeon]

The content part is there and it's good so far. The flying? The part one gives faster mount speed, so it's a step.

Yeah, it isn't. Because a big part of the issue was that it was released at the end of the expansion - after drama for an year of no clear words - surprise, same is happening now!

[Deleted]

Remember when it was TBC and WotLK and there was flying and you actually saw people in the world? Damn those were the days!

Remember how much one had to pay to get viable flying back in TBC? Those were the days (that I got broke).

Yeah, it isn't. Because a big part of the issue was that it was released at the end of the expansion - after drama for an year of no clear words - surprise, same is happening now!

It's a reward for seeing all the content. It's something that the devs decided to stick as their game development design, and as much I like flying, I'm glad to see it. Now they need to focus on other stuff, like the content patches release volume.

[Deleted]

No, you are ignoring your own words. If gearing is extrinsic and not comparable then leveling is equally not comparable.

Both leveling and gearing up arent comparable to flying. That is what i talk about. Flying gives no character progression.

But you stated that leveling is intrinsic and gearing isn't. Gearing in intrinsic to player progression in WoW. It always has been. Levels are meaningless with out gear.

Oh please. You are just putting words into my mouth. I always talked about the fact that flying is no extrinsic reward.

They are. You are required to have a certain skill to fly in certain zones.

Do you want to tell me you had to play for gaining the cataclysm zone flying skill seperately? You are comparing apples to oranges. You act, as if blizzards grand new intrnsic reward for doing their most dull content is even remotely comparable to buying a licence for old content..

MoP also did it different then Cataclysm but I don't see you saying the MoP method was flawed. Was Wotlk flawed as well? Was BC flawed as well? MoP, Wotlk, and BC all functioned different then cataclysm.

I think cataclysm was the best solution. As it didnt put back the same carrot onto the stick. The same carrot that actually had no improvement at all.

Flying is the only intrinsic reward ingame that is being reused unchanged over and over. It's just the same old convenience which gets sold for a lot of gametime since WoD.. and only from the day you already saw everything.. which makes the reward way less interesting. Infact, the devs fooled their players with selling flying in WoD, as they give the convenience only if it is no even remotely as useful as at the start. And that just to create gametime played.

- - - Updated - - -

Why do people like to be dishonest for argument sake? Flying isn't being taken away.

It is taken away from every start of a new expac up to the point when every single content was played and seen. Which makes it defakto irrelevant for its initial sake. To have a convenient way to travel.

[Oneirophobia]

it really doesn't look that bad...rep grind will be the only thing and we dont know how bad those will be.

As long as it isn't "Make a 5 man group in the group finder and sit in an area grinding mobs for 4 hours straight" like Saberstalkers or Outcasts or.. well, the grand majority of reps in WoD, I'll be happy.

[Schizoide]

Looks reasonable to me. I'm sorry, but I agree with the developers that the content should be experienced from the ground first and you should have to earn the flying privilege.

That's perfectly fine. We know the MMO-C community is split roughly 50/50 on this from a poll earlier this week.

What's really offensive is when people assume people that care about flying are lying trolls, because they lack the empathy to understand that some people actually do legitimately disagree with them.

[Krazzorx]

Drama isn't there this time as we have tangible evidence it's coming. WoD was "will they or won't they?" What patch exactly it's coming we don't know, but shouldn't be any concern about the possibility of it Coming

[Darkeon]

Remember how much one had to pay to get viable flying back in TBC? Those were the days (that I got broke).

60% was quite affordable and easily achieved the moment one got to 70, or close after.

And I do agree that I enjoyed that progression regarding flying mounts, back then. And would be totally okay with a slower version of flying being available with this Pathfinder #1 achievement, and increasing the flying speed as the expansion progresses with the following Pathfinders #X.