Pathfinder achievement looking pretty steep to unlock a core ability

[rhorle]

It was taken aways. As people were able to fly in fresh endgame in every other expac before. In WoD, people werent able to do so. That fact wont become wrong, no matter, how much you try twisting words around until they fit into your wording.

Fresh end game is not the same as the point "when every single content was played and seen" I am not twisting any words.

It is taken away from every start of a new expac up to the point when every single content was played and seen. Which makes it defakto irrelevant for its initial sake. To have a convenient way to travel.

The bold words are an untrue statement and hasn't been twisted from what you yourself typed. You are the one twisting words until the fit what you want and you are doing it with your own statements.

[Deleted]

There is no dishonesty, as there was to gate to flying until WoD except leveling up and some gold. Which is not even remotely comparable to the gating mechanism for flying since WoD. For me, its is actually hypocrisy to compare these both.

No, it is dishonest because you keep telling that you earned flying in TBC and in every other xpac (except WoD) was gated. It's the exact same thing, you had to earn it in every single xpac. They didn't took your TBC flying with WotLK, you had to earn the WotLK flying.

The bold words are an untrue statement and hasn't been twisted from what you yourself typed. You are the one twisting words until the fit what you want and you are doing it with your own statements.

Precisely this. It's completely dishonest to say that "flying was taken" when it was never the case.

[rhorle]

There is no dishonesty, as there was to gate to flying until WoD except leveling up and some gold. Which is not even remotely comparable to the gating mechanism for flying since WoD. For me, its is actually hypocrisy to compare these both.

Mists of Pandaria introduced a gate on flying with Cloud Serpents. Flying also wasn't always Account bound like it is in WoD. It has changed, just as its cost has changed. Gold and Leveling are no longer a significant cost as they were when BC game out. Flying should still have a relatively significant cost attached to it.

[Deleted]

Fresh end game is not the same as the point "when every single content was played and seen" I am not twisting any words.

Sure you are. But hey, lets just agree to disagree here. Its pointless to discuss, when your only wish seems to be to win the discussion.

I brought up my arguments, you brought up yours. It isnt going to change to what i would like. So you obviously won the discussion already.

[Asura00]

So we're back to complaining about flying now huh?

[irdsyd]

My reading of an earlier blue post was that finishing pathfinder only unlocks flying at a later date yet to be determined. Maybe it has changed since that post.

[Nexsa]

Nothing wrong with this. I enjoy ground mounts on my main starting out, to see everything. With flying coming later it makes it all good after you feel you've seen it all.

[Deleted]

No, it is dishonest because you keep telling that you earned flying in TBC and in every other xpac (except WoD) was gated. It's the exact same thing, you had to earn it in every single xpac. They didn't took your TBC flying with WotLK, you had to earn the WotLK flying.

No, its not the same thing as the effort blizzard asks since WoD is way higher to actually gain flying. And as they time gate it compared to older expac up to the content patch when there will be no new content anymore.

But hey, you seem not really be willing or able to see the difference, even when i show you where the difference is, so just lets stop the discussion here.

[Yemkela]

So we're back to complaining about flying now huh?

Only some of us, I'd say we're split down the middle. Flying is one of my favorite things to do ingame and yet I find myself agreeing with the pro-Pathfinder crowd and unable to understand the complaints of the pro-handout crowd.

[rhorle]

Sure you are. But hey, lets just agree to disagree here. Its pointless to discuss, when your only wish seems to be to win the discussion

What is there to win? I am discussing what you have typed. You have said that flying is taken away from the start of every new expansion to the point all the content is played and seen. That is untrue. Why do you think that is true? Perhaps instead of telling me I am twisting words, or trying to win tell me instead why what you said is true?

WoD is the first expansion that flying was delayed until a later content patch. It also didn't require 100% of content added during WoD lifetime or even of the content added during 6.2. You didn't even have to step foot into HFC in order to earn flying. The other expansions required you to play and see some of the content through leveling but gave it rather quickly once you hit end game. But flying was also gated by Speeds in some of those.

[Deleted]

I don't think it will actually be a big deal... With all content offering upgrades and rep being given out by all rares(they drop tokens) this seems pretty easy...

That being said.. I have a hunch legion dungeons are going to be on par with tbc and cata then wod or mop. It might just be for testing but it seems like blizz is expecting your casual player to quest rather then dungeon farming.

Don't quote me on that though I thought the same about wod in beta.

[Deleted]

No, its not the same thing as the effort blizzard asks since WoD is way higher to actually gain flying. And as they time gate it compared to older expac up to the content patch when there will be no new content anymore.

But hey, you seem not really be willing or able to see the difference, even when i show you where the difference is, so just lets stop the discussion here.

You said:

It is taken away from every start of a new expac up to the point when every single content was played and seen. Which makes it defakto irrelevant for its initial sake. To have a convenient way to travel.

Which is completely false, flying that you earned was never taken away. Ever.

[Deleted]

What is there to win? I am discussing what you have typed. You have said that flying is taken away from the start of every new expansion to the point all the content is played and seen. That is untrue. Why do you think that is true? Perhaps instead of telling me I am twisting words, or trying to win tell me instead why what you said is true?

Because it happened in WoD. And it happens in Legion, i would assume. Flying was not to be seen before the last patch of WoD, which means, there was no new content after flying was being introduced in WoD anymore.

I do not talk about old expacs, i talk about new expacs, as you surely do not ignore in this context. New expacs starting a WoD, which gate flying up to the last patch when everything was done and seen.

WoD is the first expansion that flying was delayed until a later content patch. It also didn't require 100% of content added during WoD lifetime or even of the content added during 6.2.

And i never wrote that. I wrote that flying was gated behind the a grind in 6.2., tanaan in special. The new thing about it is the time gate, which defakto removes flying from actualy endgame, as you get it only once you played all available world content. So the gain from flying actually is lost in gameplay that matters most.

You didn't even have to step foot into HFC in order to earn flying. The other expansions required you to play and see some of the content through leveling but gave it rather quickly once you hit end game. But flying was also gated by Speeds in some of those.

Flying in all expacs before WoD was except TBC was gated by gold and, except cataclysm, by leveling up to endgame level. Thats all. And it was enough. Flying needs no additional gates as like in WoD. Thats exactly what i talk about.. selling the same unchanged intrinsic reward for a way too high price just because the dull content in 6.2 needed the reward to be appealing to anyone.

[rhorle]

No, its not the same thing as the effort blizzard asks since WoD is way higher to actually gain flying. And as they time gate it compared to older expac up to the content patch when there will be no new content anymore

But is it really higher? You will be doing majority of that content anyways. And if you look at the required parts of Pathfinder they give rewards of their own. World quests offer a lot so you will naturally complete them. You naturally explore most of the zones during questing. Loremaster offers a new artifact visual so most people will likely get it anyways. And if its anything like WoD you will naturally complete it by doing the story for each zone. Plenty of testers have stated that you naturally earn majority of the rep required for pathfinder, and you will naturally complete the order hall campaign by working on your artifact and world quests.

That really isn't that much effort if most of it comes naturally over the course of doing regular content. No new content also doesn't mean there is no content for you to do. The pathfinder achievements in WoD and Legion do not require you to 100% all content in the game. Flying will still have benefits. But if you have managed to complete all content relevant to you by the time flying is around then you didn't really miss it after all.

There is also no word on when the final pathfinder achievement will come. It could come in first major content patch of Legion. All we know is that there is more then one part.

[Deleted]

Which is completely false, flying that you earned was never taken away. Ever.

It was taken away compared to what you were able in the expac before. Is that really hard to understand?

Once again: I was able to fly at the start of MoP , with leveling up and some gold.
Now i am only able to fly when i level up, see the complete world, have to do whatever skinner box blizzard wants me to do even util the final patch as like in WoD probably just to be able to fly in content i already have seen and played. So the reward is infact useless compared to what we had in other expacs.

[Dread Pirate Phayde]

Seems fine to me, I was fine with the Draenor pathfinder over the grind for other reps like Laughing Skull.

[rhorle]

Once again: I was able to fly at the start of WoD, with leveling up and some gold.

Bzzt try again. But lets assume that is a typo. Flying wasn't taken away from you in WoD. You just weren't given the skill until later in the game as compared to other expansions. But it can't be taken away if you didn't have in WoD in the first place.

[Deleted]

It was taken away compared to what you were able in the expac before. Is that really hard to understand?

I understand perfectly well that you keep using semantics for dishonesty. Your earned ability to fly wasn't taken with WoD, they simply introduced a WoD flying ability later then you expected. And it's fine to not agree with Blizz's design.

But, I repeat, telling that your xpac-to-xpac earned ability to fly was taken is false.

[Deleted]

But is it really higher?

Yes, it really is higher. Even way much higher. And flying is way less rewarding than ever before. As its availability is shifted up to the point it isnt useful anymore.

You will be doing majority of that content anyways.

I did not do the pathfinder achievement before WoD. I only did it for flying in WoD. And it was not especially fun just to travel to the highest mountain only for that skill. And the treasure chests werent fun as well.. find a map in the internets, go there, open a chest. What a fun. Not. YAWN.

I would not have played the treasure chests without the skinner box.

And if you look at the required parts of Pathfinder they give rewards of their own.

The gameplay was extremely dull. Thats what matters most to me. You know, the intrinsic reward.

World quests offer a lot so you will naturally complete them. You naturally explore most of the zones during questing. Loremaster offers a new artifact visual so most people will likely get it anyways. And if its anything like WoD you will naturally complete it by doing the story for each zone. Plenty of testers have stated that you naturally earn majority of the rep required for pathfinder, and you will naturally complete the order hall campaign by working on your artifact and world quests.

I am not able to say anything about legion, as i have no alpha access. But i hope the very best. Still i was that disappointed by WoD, that i have to find out myself if its fun.

The pathfinder achievements in WoD and Legion do not require you to 100% all content in the game. Flying will still have benefits. But if you have managed to complete all content relevant to you by the time flying is around then you didn't really miss it after all.

The pathfinder achievement in WoD was dull beyond belief. I hope its better in legion.

There is also no word on when the final pathfinder achievement will come. It could come in first major content patch of Legion. All we know is that there is more then one part.

I believe they will do it like in WoD. Gate it up to the final patch. They probably just dont bring up any infos as they dont want to lose the players that would not play if they talk about the patch schedule and when flying will be released.

[Deleted]

nothing wrong with this at all, blizz gives content to do and yet people still like to moan - regardless if its a bit of time till it allows us to fly