[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Snegovik]

Not true at all.

We haven't mentioned Hitler once.

A bit off topic, Hitler actually had a Jewish blood line on his Mother's side....oh the irony.

[Temna]

Nothing wrong with a bit of levity after a rough spot Not that things are perfect mind you, still a ways to go but things are starting to look better.

[Deleted]

A bit off topic, Hitler actually had a Jewish blood line on his Monther's side....oh the irony.

And wasn't even german, but from Austria which was already an autonomous country back then. A bit off topic from my side but oh well...just sayin'

Another topic, how high are the chances to get SoV dmg applying to bad guys nuking you from afar? Because I think it's crap if a funny hunter could strip Ret of it's fabulous new mitigation toy without any consequences for him.

[Snegovik]

And wasn't even german, but from Austria which was already an autonomous country back then. A bit off topic from my side but oh well...just sayin'

Yep, also Hitler was one of the best if not the best public speakers in the history of man kind, shame she wasted his talents on evil things.

[Deleted]

I am really trying my best not to comment on this , but fuck it i make some points here.

1. A HPally wouldn't just have to sit behind the lines , he would quite litteraly would have to be 100+ Meters away from the whole thing and at best at a higher level to overview the whole thing. So in this regard
2. Tirion could be the Paladin Poledancer for the most parts and it wouldn't have made a difference. He practicly all of the time away from the actuall fighting and the same goes with all higher Generals. They aren't active , even closely to the actuall battlefield and can never or very rarely do some active stuff from their position exept for giving orders to support a flank or send in reinforcements or some cavelarie etc. The actuall heavy lifting comes the field officers and commanders in the mids of the battle. And no one did anything to try and outsmart the opponent with tactics once the battle has begune , all of this had been done long before it had even started. Small stuff like there are guys attacking one flank in order to break are the exeption and rather easy to spott since you would have to move a big mass of people to do even shit against a actuall army.

Leader and Commander: You could reverse that and it still would be true :P

Also thinking about that WoW is constantly under attack from anything to Green bulky Aliens , Space Cancer and Demons and seeing that the latter has just commenced a full scale invasion is pretty desperate in my opinion. I mean some random ass footmen from stormwind who just two days ago yelled at kids to stop running like morons around has now to fight against Felguards thrice his size. So seeing their king is kinda a inspiration.


1. At the very top you have policy: "this is what we think of France" etc.
2. Then you have grand strategy: "we're going to invade France and blockade her allies".
3. Then you have strategy: "the Mediterranean station needs to be reinforced and prevent the French navy breaking out of Toulouse".
4. NOW you get to the generals and admirals of the various armies & navies involved: "my army will land at Calais and draw out the Paris garrison, so that Bob's army can flank them, and Cuthbert's army can take Paris".

But why has it to be an Hpally? Oh and no garrison would go and intercept a landing party and the garrison would stay within their heavily fortified fortesses , exept if they could just steamroll over the invading force. While you could somewhat try to ambush them it is quite hard to hide an big ass army from enemy scouts.

"This bit confused me, I'll admit :P ."
A HPally won't do his job since he isn't in the reach of throwing some glowing bandadges unto people and inspire them. Like for example Tirion. He could be the same Poledancer like above , or holy or ret or prot. But since he just sits stupidly around all the time , which is kinda the job of the boss , his actuall combat role doesn't matter since he has no real options in bringing them into action.


As for Hitler. Hitler dindo nuthin he was a good boy who was bullied by mean russians into suicide.

[Snegovik]

As for Hitler. Hitler dindo nuthin he was a good boy who was bullied by mean russians into suicide.

Not according to most Americans' pov, they believe USA was the one to invade Berlin and push hitler into suicide (but i am glad to see that some people read their history, cookie to you sir), but yes...we russians are pretty mean especially when 7 people with a single riffle and 5 bullets each charging fortified German defensive lines with machine guns blasting....the machine guns would actually stop working from overheating due to non-stop shooting... don;t you wish after strategies like these Generals would actually join soldiers in the front lines?

[newguyy1]

pallys need some love XD

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so many changes and lil tweaks i really wish i could see them for myself on the beta

[Ulthane]

Okay so saw something on the alpha forums that sparked a HUGE idea about Judgment that could FIX everything involving the ability and windows around it while fixing our AoE problem and having Mastery feed into our AoE.

Post
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743564412#16

The idea: Make Judgment a 100% uptime.

Judgment Retune Idea:

Judgment: Judge your target dealing damage and increase the damage they take from your finishers by X%. Lasts 1 Minute, stacks up to 3 times.
-1 stack, normal effect
-2 stack, increased effect and now cleaves % of the damage to near by enemies within 8 yards.
-3 stack, increased effect and now causes your attacks to make the target explode with Holy Fire dealing damage over 15 seconds to itself and near by enemies within 8 yards.

-Single Target: We would be more loose on our windows, we can dump when ever we want due to duration lasting so long on one target.
-AoE: We wont want to target swap Judgment, the idea of this Judgment is to exact the FINAL Judgment as our focus. Target swaps and AoE is our weakness. With this at three stacks what will happen is lets say we hit our Judgment for 100 damage it will now deal 100 damage over 15 seconds to that target and the near by targets. If this is too much make it happen over 20 - 30 seconds. Either way this will allow us to have decent AoE presence while being on one target.

Target swap in PvE might be our greatest weakness, Judgment will hinder us with that. Seeing the videos I have seen one could see this. With the stacks and duration one could maybe maintain the stacks on two targets thus granting us some type of cleave ability. In this event Divine Storm will do great.

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Like two targets sure, Target swap because fights like "Twins" and shared health stuff go for it. But a boss with multiple adds surrounding you can keep your focus on the boss because that is how you will best do AoE damage.

[Snegovik]

Okay so saw something on the alpha forums that sparked a HUGE idea about Judgment that could FIX everything involving the ability and windows around it while fixing our AoE problem and having Mastery feed into our AoE.

Post
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743564412#16

The idea: Make Judgment a 100% uptime.

Judgment Retune Idea:

Judgment: Judge your target dealing damage and increase the damage they take from your finishers by X%. Lasts 1 Minute, stacks up to 3 times.
-1 stack, normal effect
-2 stack, increased effect and now cleaves % of the damage to near by enemies within 8 yards.
-3 stack, increased effect and now causes your attacks to make the target explode with Holy Fire dealing damage over 15 seconds to itself and near by enemies within 8 yards.

-Single Target: We would be more loose on our windows, we can dump when ever we want due to duration lasting so long on one target.
-AoE: We wont want to target swap Judgment, the idea of this Judgment is to exact the FINAL Judgment as our focus. Target swaps and AoE is our weakness. With this at three stacks what will happen is lets say we hit our Judgment for 100 damage it will now deal 100 damage over 15 seconds to that target and the near by targets. If this is too much make it happen over 20 - 30 seconds. Either way this will allow us to have decent AoE presence while being on one target.

Target swap in PvE might be our greatest weakness, Judgment will hinder us with that. Seeing the videos I have seen one could see this. With the stacks and duration one could maybe maintain the stacks on two targets thus granting us some type of cleave ability. In this event Divine Storm will do great.

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Like two targets sure, Target swap because fights like "Twins" and shared health stuff go for it. But a boss with multiple adds surrounding you can keep your focus on the boss because that is how you will best do AoE damage.

I don't know if it is possible to implement since it seems a bit clancky from PvP POV, what if target pops ice block, evasion, die the sowrd, CLOS/vanish etc that will let the stacks ware off or cancel them, or simply cc or peel, then we have to work towards 3 stacks again and all the moving + damaging other targets around it, seems like a bit too much work for Blizzard to spend on such a thing, especially because we all know how much Blizzards loves to spend time on Ret spec to make it balanced and enjoyable to play (being sarcastic here)

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i think the only way blizzard will adjust our aoe, is we can pass on to them a suggestion both simple implement/does not require many changes and if it is not totally OP.

[Nihilist74]

Does the talent "Zeal" look like its going to be worth using in aoe situations?

[Ulthane]

I don't know if it is possible to implement since it seems a bit clancky from PvP POV, what if target pops ice block, evasion, die the sowrd, CLOS/vanish etc that will let the stacks ware off or cancel them, or simply cc or peel, then we have to work towards 3 stacks again and all the moving + damaging other targets around it, seems like a bit too much work for Blizzard to spend on such a thing, especially because we all know how much Blizzards loves to spend time on Ret spec to make it balanced and enjoyable to play (being sarcastic here)

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i think the only way blizzard will adjust our aoe, is we can pass on to them a suggestion both simple implement/does not require many changes and if it is not totally OP.

Well how about this PoV

-It's stronger in this form even BASELINE 1 stack then what it is right now. Duration alone will prove it stronger.
-If it manages to get to 3 stacks its going to be punishing on the target in PvP.
-PvE it will allow us to do very well staying on one target OR dealing with shared health two targets in the long term.

It's an over all win in my book.

AlSO side note, I feel Equality should be in the PvP tree and Hammer of Reckoning should be brought into the PvE tree and renamed Hammer of Wrath and adjusted.

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Also the duration of the stack being at 1 minute would help against some of that.

[Snegovik]

Well how about this PoV

-It's stronger in this form even BASELINE 1 stack then what it is right now. Duration alone will prove it stronger.
-If it manages to get to 3 stacks its going to be punishing on the target in PvP.
-PvE it will allow us to do very well staying on one target OR dealing with shared health two targets in the long term.

It's an over all win in my book.

AlSO side note, I feel Equality should be in the PvP tree and Hammer of Reckoning should be brought into the PvE tree and renamed Hammer of Wrath and adjusted.

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Also the duration of the stack being at 1 minute would help against some of that.

Don't get me wrong, i welcome all types of dmg buffs to our aoe sustain, because Rets need stable aoe badly to be wanted in RBGs, i am just afraid Blizzard will "balance" us, as they love to do so much, by reducing our ST dmg if they implement such aoe design.

I think every1 at this point, besides Blizzard's Dev, believe that Equality should be a PvP talent, unless they want have this talent pure for leveling basis

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Yep i agree 1 min stack, but they have to be immune to dispels, like a physical debuf (but it still will be removed by ice block, bop, bubble)

[Ulthane]

Hell, doesnt even have to have the stacking mechanic. All it has to do is last 1 minute on the target.

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Don't get me wrong, i welcome all types of dmg buffs to our aoe sustain, because Rets need stable aoe badly to be wanted in RBGs, i am just afraid Blizzard will "balance" us, as they love to do so much, by reducing our ST dmg if they implement such aoe design.

I think every1 at this point, besides Blizzard's Dev, believe that Equality should be a PvP talent, unless they want have this talent pure for leveling basis

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Yep i agree 1 min stack, but they have to be immune to dispels, like a physical debuf (but it still will be removed by ice block, bop, bubble)

Considering the CD of Judgment itself and how long it would take to ramp up it wouldn't be too op. Thats how I see it all pvp talents considering. PvE it would shine but PvP it would be like, well cant get him again so lets Judge this guy and go after him and see what happens. But then that Judged guy is still running around and you get him again.

[Snegovik]

Hell, doesnt even have to have the stacking mechanic. All it has to do is last 1 minute on the target.

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Considering the CD of Judgment itself and how long it would take to ramp up it wouldn't be too op. Thats how I see it all pvp talents considering. PvE it would shine but PvP it would be like, well cant get him again so lets Judge this guy and go after him and see what happens. But then that Judged guy is still running around and you get him again.

Only if that stack spreads to near by enemies, if it does not, imagine the swaps in RBGs, they usually last for 20-30 seconds then you swap again, so we can only have 2 judgements in that window.

[Temna]

Does the talent "Zeal" look like its going to be worth using in aoe situations?

From what I've heard its EH. Needs to chain on start I think rather then building up for it to be ideal.

[Ulthane]

Only if that stack spreads to near by enemies, if it does not, imagine the swaps in RBGs, they usually last for 20-30 seconds then you swap again, so we can only have 2 judgements in that window.

Point is, as it is now it's horrible. Even if you can't get 3 stacks off in an RBG all the time the point is even 1 stack of that idea currently is TONS better than what it is now.

Current: Judge target, they run, duration gone, no bonus dps.
This idea: Judge target, they run, debuff still there, still can do bonus dps.

[ujx]

Does the talent "Zeal" look like its going to be worth using in aoe situations?

No, not unless they buff it or change it. It can't hold a candle compared to the other two in the tier.

[Ulthane]

Also way I see the 100 row now this needs to happen.

-Divine Purpose: Your Holy Power consumers grant Divine Purpose causing your next Holy Power consumer to be free of cost. This free one cannot Proc Divine Purpose.
--NOTE-- This would prevent long streaks of OP proc burst that will cause devastation and also prevent dry spell periods as well. A middle ground.

-Holy Wrath: Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds, cannot be interrupted.
--NOTE-- It would compete with Divine Purpose simply because of raw damage and its ability to line up with Wake of Ashes.

-Equality: Put into PvP tree, swapped with Hammer of Reckoning.

-Hammer of Reckoning, renamed Hammer of Wrath- Replaces Judgment. Deals holy damage and increases the damage the target takes by your finishers by x% stacking up to 3 times. Damage dealt by Hammer of Wrath is increased based on the missing health of the target. Dealing Damage with Hammer of Wrath increases your mastery rating.
--NOTE-- Would still maintain the Judgment 3 stack debuff i brought up above.

[Snegovik]

I def like the Hammer of Wrath idea, it is a bummer when an Hpal or Ret BOPs and you can not get to them with your HP generators.

P.S. since you mentioned how Hammer of Wrath deals increased dmg based on target's missing hp, what if Equality would do the opposite, if you picked equality, your damage/haste would increase based on % of your health missing (like berserker in original Dota from WC)

[Taeldorian]

All of the ideas here are great. It seems like the last remaining issue for pve is the judgment/colossus smash gameplay. Target swapping is going to be really weak if this stays the way it is. I keep reiterating myself but that's where my main source of feedback is going, I really want to see a change with the judgment window thing, and not being able to target swap. Or even having to wait for judgment to come off CD while your at full HoPo. It's not the worst it could be, but this is the last thing that really really needs to work that isn't solved by number tuning. Everything else is pretty decent.

Reiterating: The only things that would make the spec a bit better is holy wrath on a 30 sec CD or cast able while moving, and the judgement/colossus smash gameplay being altered and fixed a bit. Those are the only two things I can come up with as good feedback now that greater blessings is removed and the procs we've been asking for have been added through DP

Edit: our rotation looks fluid and has more interaction due to procs from DPS and its synergy with fires of justice. The only things that are of concern would be the judgement colossus smash gameplay. Causes issues with prio target switching, waiting for judgment to come off CD so I can dump my HoPo, etc. Hope this gets addressed.