"It's only cosmetics"

[ro9ue]

People often defend microtransactions in video games if they just alter the appearance of your character with "it's only cosmetics, so I don't care", but the second you have a +1 strength item in there.. they go batshit crazy.

Why is this?

If you can just buy the best looking stuff... isn't that just selling away the prestige of the game?

[Captain Douchebag]

Because being able to buy power is not the same as being able to buy different appearances for your character.

Also, "best looking stuff" is a matter of opinion.

[unholytestament]

Looking cool doesn't give someone an advantage over anyone else.

[Halicia]

Depends on the game though. When games deliberately leave stuff out so they can charge extra for it later... well...

Would you be happy if you just ordered a meal at a restaurant only to be told that spoons & forks require a $10 additional payment ?

Or for the "cosmetic angle", they give you a plate of grey goo, and you're told that it tastes the same as the deluxe version, but if you want the "cosmetic" upgrade, it costs extra ?

[Jtbrig7390]

People often defend microtransactions in video games if they just alter the appearance of your character with "it's only cosmetics, so I don't care", but the second you have a +1 strength item in there.. they go batshit crazy.

Why is this?

If you can just buy the best looking stuff... isn't that just selling away the prestige of the game?

Because one gives power and one doesn't......

Not a hard concept to understand.

Best looking is opinion not fact.

[Bathory]

Looking cool doesn't give someone an advantage over anyone else.

This.

tenchars

[Witchblade77]

Depends on the game though. When games deliberately leave stuff out so they can charge extra for it later... well...

Would you be happy if you just ordered a meal at a restaurant only to be told that spoons & forks require a $10 additional payment ?

Or for the "cosmetic angle", they give you a plate of grey goo, and you're told that it tastes the same as the deluxe version, but if you want the "cosmetic" upgrade, it costs extra ?

well... spoons and forks being extra ARE a problem and are an equivalent of a necessary for character power progression item being cash shop only. however - cosmetic items are usually an equivalent of a difference between plain white plate and a pretty hand painted one. sure the pretty plate looks much MUCH better but the food you are actualy eating? is exactly the same.

[Tucci]

Prestige comes from prestigious things in the game, not a shop purchase and people know that. Most players go gaga over ultra rare and super hard to get items, not stuff anyone can go buy. They have their place. A lot of the shop stuff might be gorgeous and you might get whispers from newer players asking where you got it but I wouldn't call it prestigious. Cosmetics don't give you any advantage so it's not Pay 2 Win like stats would be.

[ro9ue]

Looking cool doesn't give someone an advantage over anyone else.

What if it's a PVE game though?

[Jtbrig7390]

What if it's a PVE game though?

Doesn't matter. It doesn't give power therefor its not p2w.

Even if it did give power that doesn't make it p2w. In order to be p2w you have to be able to gain power via $$$ that can't be got within the game.

For example lets say the best gear WoW gave you was Heroic Dungeon gear but the store gives you Mythic Raid gear for $$$$. That is a p2w game.

P2w doesn't equal bad ether. Hearthstone is a p2w game but is not bad, Its a card game and all card games are p2w.

P2w gives you a advantage over players, Cosmetics can not do this.

[ro9ue]

Doesn't matter. It doesn't give power therefor its not p2w.

Even if it did give power that doesn't make it p2w. In order to be p2w you have to be able to gain power via $$$ that can't be got within the game.

For example lets say the best gear WoW gave you was Heroic Dungeon gear but the store gives you Mythic Raid gear for $$$$. That is a p2w game.

P2w doesn't equal bad ether. Hearthstone is a p2w game but is not bad, Its a card game and all card games are p2w.

P2w gives you a advantage over players, Cosmetics can not do this.

So what if you can buy Mythic Raid gear for $ but you can also get it in the game?

[Gracin]

So what if you can buy Mythic Raid gear for $ but you can also get it in the game?

That's still p2w.

[Witchblade77]

So what if you can buy Mythic Raid gear for $ but you can also get it in the game?

that depends entirely on how. if we are talking about buying gold via tokens to buy carries (of BMA listings)? that's not pay to win. why? because you can do the same without spending a dime. if the gear is sold directly through cash shop? than we are starting to really skirt the line there.

it might be a small distinction, but an important one.

[Buttonmasher]

People often defend microtransactions in video games if they just alter the appearance of your character with "it's only cosmetics, so I don't care", but the second you have a +1 strength item in there.. they go batshit crazy.

Why is this?

If you can just buy the best looking stuff... isn't that just selling away the prestige of the game?

Essentially, anything requiring money with buffs and the like that usually give a head start or some sort of imbalance are considered pay-to-win.
There are certain things hotly debated as PTW, etc. Personally, I'm fine with a cosmetic store available through cash, but I do think it should be also allowed to have a currency in game you can buy the same thing, such as the current mounts and helmets. Guild Wars 2 for example has a really decent system like this as far as I remember.
To clarify also, if there were a +1 stat buff to strength that was so ridiculously minor, I wouldn't really care. I also don't necessarily care for the 90/100/110 boosts, but I personally wouldn't get one because it's a lot of money. I would get one otherwise because I'm personally sick of the dull levelling that's currently in game. :/

[Jtbrig7390]

So what if you can buy Mythic Raid gear for $ but you can also get it in the game?

Then it really depends the person. IMO it borderlines p2w, because it would depend the rate you can get the Mythic gear ingame. If it takes you one month to get one item then ya. But if you can be decked out in a week or a day then no.

P2w is being able to buy power you can't get ingame. It originally started with asian MMO's way back in the day.

It also depends how like the poster said above. If you just buy a token and spend the gold then no.

[Nirawen]

Looking cool doesn't give someone an advantage over anyone else.

You've obviously never been in a dance battle.

[endersblade]

"Pay 2 win" means exactly that. It isn't really a matter of whether or not what they're buying is already in the game, they're circumventing any in-game effort required to get that gear (in WoW's case, using the Mything Raiding gear example, probably months and months of farming) by paying money and instantly getting it. You are now top of your game, at least as far as gear is concerned, while everyone else is still grinding it.

If WoW releases thousands of armor sets we can buy that are just cosmetic, that will never be p2w. But the instant they sell a shirt slotted item that gives +1 to a stat, that's essentially p2w. You now have +1 stat more than anyone else who does NOT buy the shirt, therefore you have an advantage (albeit slight).

If they sell something that lets you instantly have top of the line gear, that's pay to win. If they sell something that you can't normally get in-game, but gives you an advantage over other players who do not wish to buy the item, that's pay to win.

Now, experience potions are sort of a different story. Leveling in WoW has become a joke, even a casual player can hit max level inside of a month easy. So if they sold exp potions, I personally would not consider that P2W...more like pay to catch up to the rest of us lol.

[Rehija]

A good example for well hidden Pay 2 win would be Aion. You can get everything in the shop via in game efforts ( a few cosmetics aside ) but it takes a lot of time, an awful lot of time.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

i think games like black dessert take it too far as far as buying cosmetics go, you hardly get any different armor throughout the entire game

[OneTripleZero]

You've obviously never been in a dance battle.

As someone who has actually seen a real-life, unscripted, broke-out-in-the-bar dance battle, you're entirely correct.