ultra fast pulling tanks in dungeons

[Zantos]

Rather arrogant to assume you speak for a majority.
As shown very regularly, a lot won't speak up as they don't want drama.
This sort of behaviour is exactly why people then complain about the "noobs" who don't know how to play, and then push up group requirements to try and exclude those players.
A vicious circle creating more of them in the desire to exclude them more.

If you are going to dictate certain behaviour or a pace which absolutely will be above that which others may be comfortable with then it is very fair to say you shouldn't be pushing that on others who didn't opt into that.
Either pug it manually, or the rare exception above where you actually talk to people.

I'll stick to dungeons. If they aren't comfortable, I really honestly can solo them at those levels.

[Deleted]

Well ultra fast tanks just preare you to mythic raiding
Im`doing on semi fast depends how can handle with packs and accidentally missing healer but yea like Draco says if i can survive chainpulls i will do it because i`m here to do something not to enjoy of what developers made with Arhitectures

[ItachiZaku]

I was leveling trying to fistweave as much as possible, told a few groups if they could go a tad slower, just do to that and one tank lol'd me and said "let's see how good you are" and tried to go boss to boss. Which was fine, I wasn't dying and after the second time I refused to rez him (I just keep doing, his fault he died), he got the point. Fist has no "oh shit" buttons. He learned.

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if the tank dies, it's the healer's fault
if the healer dies, it's the tank's fault
if the dps dies, it's their own fault

False, if dps dies, it's both the tank and the healers fault. Tank for not doing their job and holding agro, healer for not doing their job and healing. Only time it is DPS fault, is when they sit in fire like fucknuts. In which case, they stop getting heals and do not get rezzes.

[Deleted]

Or when they ninjapull... I feel no compulsion to take aggro off ninjapullers, and I don't think aggro issues due to ninjapulling are the tanks fault in any way.

Having said that, it does matter who does the ninjapulling. Some people can do it in a way that either helps, or at least doesn't bother the tanks (by keeping an eye on when/how much they pull, and pulling it into the tank, instead of just standing somewhere). As long as it doesn't inconvenience me when people ninjapull, I don't care about them doing it, and I will pick aggro off them, but if people start annoying me, or if I actually have to put out effort to save their asses from their own ninjapulling, they can die for all I care.

[Rae888]

I'm the opposite of the OP when I'm healing a dungeon, usually tanks don't pull fast enough for me. In fact I'm usually the one pulling ahead of them (but I always pull responsibly and to the tank). I'd say maybe 1 in 10 tanks pulls at a fast enough pace for me.

I never complain about pacing though. I just quietly grumble to myself.

[Mitak]

as a general rule when tanking super fast, i pull as many mobs as i can handle without external healing (via Cd's and self heal- im a dk), so i never put pressure on my healer since i can out heal most dungeons. The only time i communicate and wait for my healer is if plan to make some stupid long pulls that will require coordination of the whole group (as in dps not pulling till its time) and where i would expect some serious heals once i create a 20 mobs death ball.

Anyway as a tank i feel there is always a special connection between me and healers. I know that if i do my job well the rest of the group will take almost no damage and if the healer does good, he will keep me at tip top shape so i can do what i do. Also since i main a DK tank i can tell how different healers behave towards my spikiness in damage. Novice healers go nuts when i suddenly fall under 50% and start throwing big CDs at me, disregarding the rest of the group, while more experienced ones just observe how i will react next without panicking and only if i dont recover (meaning i have CDs down or no resourse, etc) then they help me. It is very much fun to play with an experienced healer, but i guess that goes for every class.

[Kreeshak]

If you can't handle fast pulls maybe you should be playing Hearthstone or Flappy Bird or something

Just because you had a bad day at making burgers at mcdonalds, that doesn't give you the right to suggest better people, what they should play.

[dexx]

Tanks can solo dungeons whilst leveling up, we won't die.

You're the exception. Most bite off more than they can chew and wipe.

[Deleted]

I love fast-paced tanks because when they are not I (as healer) usually end up waiting for them instead and I just think that's dull. The problem is in my experience not the pace itself, it's the player. Either the tank being bad, not knowing or paying attention to his/her own limitations or the healer's, or the healer being bad not using their spells correctly.

[Violeta]

Gives me something to heal for once!

[kamuimac]

i think they're stupid. just go at a normal fast pace and you can still finish the dungeon in 5 minutes, but with the added bonus of everyone not thinking you're retarded.

the problem occurs when you are going in normal pace but the rest of group simply sucks badly and your normal pace is way to fast - i have this problem on my rogue that i lv atm - i have no problem with people pulling low numbers because i can easily make it up to them and the more tank will pull the faster i will be able to drag the grou through dungeon due to how strong blade flurry & full enchanted full looms are but people seem to be trying to prove me that instead playing game to some decent potential i would be better just afking or mashing 1 button like they do because thats whats aparently fun for them -_- i have been kicked from 3 or 4 groups between 70-80 for god only know what reason probably the one that i have no problem whatsoever staying alive even when tank is dead and then tanks instead admit that its them who are shit blame me (and not even for wiping cause i tanked just fine when they were dead (which is not hard when you pull 50-60 % of overall dmg and have the god mode defence toolkit as rogues have) but for staying alive when they were dead -_-)

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Much worse than this is the dps thinking its just fine to be tanks and pull what they want when they want. I usually just let them die.

which is a proof hat you are a terrible tank/healer- instead making the run faster you are deliberately making it all harder just because you have ego problem - pull faster/heal better then you will show how good you are as player. as a healer you shouldnt have any problem keeping dps alive as tank if he is in looms for short burst period of time untill tank pulls agro of him - unless tank is as shit as you and have ego problems too.

[Demolishdk]

If you dont pull fast as a tank, the dps or the healer will pull for you and blame you if they wipe.
Dont tell dps they should stop pulling or you wont tank, then you get kicked from the group.
There is a lot of douchebags in the game sadly.

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[/QUOTE]which is a proof hat you are a terrible tank/healer- instead making the run faster you are deliberately making it all harder just because you have ego problem - pull faster/heal better then you will show how good you are as player. as a healer you shouldnt have any problem keeping dps alive as tank if he is in looms for short burst period of time untill tank pulls agro of him - unless tank is as shit as you and have ego problems too.[/QUOTE]

This has nothing todo with ego problems imo.
If you wanna tank or pull, roll a tank.
Try doing so in a raidinvironment with all Pugs and see how fast you get kicked.
Its like asking a dps to heal, its not his roll.

ps who is the one with ego problems here?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

There is no one right speed. The best speed for pulling depends on your group, so a good tank adjusts to the group he's in. With pre-mades, you know going in what you've got. With pugs, you feel it out over the first couple of pulls. Did it feel like you were having to watch your health and stuff took long to die? Slow down. Did everything die before you even got warmed up? Pull away, this group can zerg it. Sometimes I'm tanking and it does feel like I'm soloing, so I pull accordingly. Other times it feels like any of the dps could solo it they're killing stuff so fast - so I pull accordingly.

Main time I've seen a problem (when I'm on one of my DPS alts) is when a tank tries to pull everything right away without having a read on the group. Especially the opening room in mythic Grimrail. Until you know you're healer (and whether dps will get the goblins), you don't want to risk having too many explosions going off at once. Wipes slow everything down.

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Or when they ninjapull... I feel no compulsion to take aggro off ninjapullers, and I don't think aggro issues due to ninjapulling are the tanks fault in any way.

Having said that, it does matter who does the ninjapulling. Some people can do it in a way that either helps, or at least doesn't bother the tanks (by keeping an eye on when/how much they pull, and pulling it into the tank, instead of just standing somewhere). As long as it doesn't inconvenience me when people ninjapull, I don't care about them doing it, and I will pick aggro off them, but if people start annoying me, or if I actually have to put out effort to save their asses from their own ninjapulling, they can die for all I care.

YES! I really don't mind a veteran DPS who sees that we can handle more and skillfully re-directs it to me, whereas DPS who race ahead and just assume I'll rescue them are taking their chances - they better have a plan to tank what they pull.

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I used to tank a ton and frankly, I prefer to tank, but I haven't played much and my best geared toons are mostly LFR toons that are DPS (MM hunter).

Been playing since 2006 and was one of the first Pally tanks on my server when patch 2.1 hit.

I've read almost every entry in this thread and I've thought quite a lot on this topic and what I've noticed since my days of spending dozens of hours a week tanking dungeons and raids in TBC, and WotLK was the community and the desire to play WITH people.

What do we read and hear now?

"you don't need tanks..."

"you don't need healers..."

"you can solo this content, anyway..."

I really devoted so much time to this game because it was a social game. Where did that go? I know I've pulled away from the game lately, but the last year I actively played, outside of raids, the game held so little interaction that my time just felt...lonely. I won't get into how LFR/LFD killed all of that, but... I believe it did. Folks had to at least make an effort to be social.

I'm not the best at being social, but I can be pretty good at it if given a chance. However, what chance is there in today's WoW?

Trade? Um...no.

Randoms? Rarely. I'm lucky if anyone will even respond to "hello", let alone responded in way that let you know you were playing WITH others. That goes for random dungeons and raids.

Some guilds work, but far too often, players see other players as NPCs that either help or suck, not as other players that help to make the gaming world.

So, the micro issue of "how fast is too fast", well, I dunno if there's an answer because there's a bigger question: Do most players even want to play with anyone else? If they could solo all of WoW, would they? I mean, it's one thing to enjoy the challenge of soloing old content, but is WoW even a social game anymore?

I dunno about that. I think the "community" players have mostly left and the current player base seems to be very content with farms/Garrisons/Class Order Halls + dailies + randoms, none of which require players to even know another player. Some raid in guilds and others seem content to either pug or just leave it at LFR.

I honestly miss tanking, but not as much as I miss the interaction with an active guild and an active world environment.

What I don't miss is being treated as if I were a Blizz employee as a tank, there for no other purpose than to make dps happy because they had long queues. Don't miss not being allowed to enjoy even a moment of tanking because essentially, randoms aren't about enjoyment. Over that last two years, I've read countless times that the goal is to get "the chore" over as fast as possible.

I dunno. It never used to be a chore. I really, REALLY used to enjoy it. I did Heroic Shattered Halls every day in TBC and wasn't a chore. I did plenty of stuff every day in LK and wasn't a chore. I used to laugh and have tons of fun and corresponded with actual people in all parts of the US and other countries as well. I was conscientious. I was always prepared even for random dungeon runs. I took the time to teach and train new players because that was fun.

I think the entire question of ultra fast tanks or even "how fast is too fast" maybe misses the point. A huge part of why folks are trying to go fast is that the content and the company isn't something the players want to spend time in or with.

I'm not really sure how Multiplayer WoW still is or even if most players WANT it to be...thus, when so many players queue for Randoms or engage in activities where other players, often the resultant reaction is that other players are an annoyance and a hindrance.

I don't get it. I sorta thought other players were part of what made the game special. Now it seems like other players seem to be seen as obstacles. If that's the case, I'm not really sure it'll matter how fast a tank goes, eventually it'll never be fast enough.

Thanks for the thoughtful post. I love grouping with positive, social players. They don't have to be the best, as long as they are competent enough to learn. About the only place you find this interaction still is in guild, and not every guild. There are times I prefer solo play, and I found myself wondering why this morning. Why was I vegging out on Tanaan dailies I didn't really need when I could be looking for a raid or mythic dungeon? After thinking about it, I realized that I love social but detest drama. Don't get me wrong - the most of the time even random groups are fine, especially if I'm tanking so I can help set the tone. But every time you group there's a chance for more drama, and some days I'm just not in the mood. WoW isn't life; it's a fun break while I enjoy my morning coffee. Some days I just want to peace out, accomplish a few minor things, and not have to deal with people's issues.

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I'm also seeing posts here specific to what players are looking for in leveling dungeons. I have to say, I am one of those rare players who would love to stop and look around, trying to imagine what this place was like back in the day, trying to sort out all the stories and lore behind it... but I also realize that most players in the group will not share my nostalgia. Heck, in early leveling dungeons the players may not even keep track of each other. Things go so fast we get separated and everyone seems capable of soloing whatever they run into. And if the group wants to go fast, I honor that, wistfully thinking I'll have to check this place out on Wowpedia later, or maybe come back and solo it for real so I can move at my own pace. I geek out on lore and such, but I respect that not everyone does.

[Breccia]

I have to say, I am one of those rare players who would love to stop and look around, trying to imagine what this place was like back in the day, trying to sort out all the stories and lore behind it...

There isn't a single secret in any of the BC Dungeons. Nope.

[Bushtuckrman]

When I tank I play according to the group. Generally just fast chain pulls unless the healer tells me to go aggro half the instance. I go slower if the DPS is not so geared of course. As DPS its shitful to queue for so long only to have some tank that goes full retard, dies with 50 mobs on him and blames the healer then leaves.

[Deleted]

I have a problem with the tanks pulling literally non stop till the end of the dungeon, putting me the healer at the edge of my seat to not stay behind. I don't have a problem with fast tanks, I enjoy them. What I dislike is faster than fast. They don't even give me time to loot quest items. Yes it is leveling dungeons. I usually have to lay on hands them to save them, and 1-2 times even that wasn't enough to save the day. It is very stressful to me who is a 11 year player. I can't imagine how horrifying it would be to a relative new player.

For those who will say "communicate" and ask them to pull slightly slower, communication rarely happens according to my experience. If I step back to type "slow down" he is literally dead. I am afraid of being victimized by douchebags and get kicked from the dungeon.

I remember the times when I was tanking, I was looking to simple things like not LOS my healer, and give him some time to breath!

What's up with all this craziness and the speed races in non mattering leveling dungeons?

You are slow, that's all it is.

[ridamark]

honestly i dont see this as "tanks are pulling to much and i cant keep up", he is saying to fast.

tbh...if your a 11 year vet and cant keep up with a tank "going fast" in a lvling dung....maybe the tank speed is not the issue?

i only play tanks and in all my tanking i have had 1 healer say "slow down", most say "GOGOGOGOGOGO". truthfully most tanks will barely even need heals with CD rotation.

BUT if they are just pulling a whole instance bc they think they are god mode....let em die and rethink that. there is a difference between nice even speedy pulls and just pulling everything in 1 big pull.

[wrynil]

As a healer i hate when the tank is not doing it. :b

[Gilgameshh]

What's up with all this craziness and the speed races in non mattering leveling dungeons?

It's not a problem with the players so much as it is a problem with the dungeon design. You no longer need CC, tanks have tons of active mitigation and don't have to worry about threat, the DPS requirement has decreased over time, and the dungeon as a whole is very easy to navigate through.

I understand what you're saying, but when the game encourages people to speed through things, that's what they're going to do. I don't like it that it's designed this way, but unfortunately you're always going to run into tanks like this until the dungeon design changes.

The best advice is to do what you don't want to do, and that is to tell the tank to slow down a little bit. If you get kicked for letting him die while you type then the group is full of morons, but you'll likely get into another dungeon in a reasonable amount of time as a healer.

[Blacklab]

Fast pulling is great. Running from pull to pull without holding aggro on more than a handful of mobs is what drives me crazy with a lot of uber-geared tanks in mythic dungeons....doesnt matter if I'm healing or DPSing, those tanks are causing deaths thinking they're doing some great service to the group. (And before you call me some "elitist hater type" - I have a 733 DPS and a 732 healer) I've had far more "easy/smooth" runs with tanks in 720-730 gear. Not saying all high level is bad, I've seem some truly amazing tanks pull big and hold threat on every single add...those guys I'll run with every time. I'm starting to think a lot of the "pull many, aggro few" tanks are playing off-specs in mythic dungeons and don't know basic tanking mechanics all that well.