1. #1
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Who would reject $40bn in Aid?

    Benjamin Netanyahu maybe?

    WASHINGTON — President Obama has proposed granting Israel the largest package of military aid ever provided by the United States to another nation, but he and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu remain deeply at odds over a figure for the assistance despite months of negotiations.

    American officials have balked as their Israeli counterparts insisted on more generous terms for a new 10-year military aid package that could top $40 billion. The divide, which could have broad national security implications for both the United States and Israel, is exacerbated by the pent-up animosity between Mr. Obama and Mr. Netanyahu, which has been stoked by their radically divergent views of the nuclear deal with Iran.

    If he wants to punish Obama over the Iran deal by rejecting and extra billion a year... i mean go ahead.
    Think of all the things the US could build with $40bn? In Trump terms, that would be about 2.5 walls on the Mexican border. Or maybe 47.2 Trump towers.

    Personally I'd go for fixing some structurally deficient bridges, and updating a few municipal water supplies.

    Whats your pet project for 40 billion?

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Nathreim's Avatar
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    There could have been stipulations on the aid that he didn't like. No such thing as a free lunch.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    well we can always hope the US decides to remind Israel who is the powerful party again.

  4. #4
    Money is never free. This "aid" surely has strings attached.
    Money talks, bullshit walks..

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    well we can always hope the US decides to remind Israel who is the powerful party again.
    It's funny that Donald Trump treats NATO allies like absolute crap (needlessly). The one ally in the world that HAS actually taken us for granted is Israel.

    I can't recall Germany or France anytime in the last 60 years doing something that the US really, really didn't want it to do, and then turn around and expend (and demand) that the US protect it from international condemnation and sanctioning in the United Nations.

    That's been the story of Israel for years now: like the worst kind of friend, constantly putting the US in a position where we're defending them against actions we-ourselves dissaporve of.

    And I also love when they go sell our technology to the Chinese.

    Our relationship with Israel is pathological and needs renorming.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    It's funny that Donald Trump treats NATO allies like absolute crap (needlessly). The one ally in the world that HAS actually taken us for granted is Israel.

    I can't recall Germany or France anytime in the last 60 years doing something that the US really, really didn't want it to do, and then turn around and expend (and demand) that the US protect it from international condemnation and sanctioning in the United Nations.

    That's been the story of Israel for years now: like the worst kind of friend, constantly putting the US in a position where we're defending them against actions we-ourselves dissaporve of.

    And I also love when they go sell our technology to the Chinese.

    Our relationship with Israel is pathological and needs renorming.
    what's downright absurd as far as I'm concerned is that the Trumpian position aught to be, (in regards to Israel) - is 'go away'
    - But I'm pretty sure he hasn't actually told them to pay up or go fuck themselves as he has with everyone else.
    Because for all the US complaints about the EU not pulling its weight - especially because ultimately the US does not want them too - But Israel virtually never does what the US wants...
    If a Alien observed Earth - I'm pretty sure they would think that it must have been the US that organised the Holocaust or something - because not even Germany is quite as pliable as the US is.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyv3r View Post
    Money is never free. This "aid" surely has strings attached.
    Chinese will pay Big Aid to South Pacific Nations like Fiji
    & Papua New Guinea for Bases.

    Keeps the West on its Toes
    I must remember not to post stupid stuff when very drunk.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    It's funny that Donald Trump treats NATO allies like absolute crap (needlessly). The one ally in the world that HAS actually taken us for granted is Israel.

    I can't recall Germany or France anytime in the last 60 years doing something that the US really, really didn't want it to do, and then turn around and expend (and demand) that the US protect it from international condemnation and sanctioning in the United Nations.

    That's been the story of Israel for years now: like the worst kind of friend, constantly putting the US in a position where we're defending them against actions we-ourselves dissaporve of.

    And I also love when they go sell our technology to the Chinese.

    Our relationship with Israel is pathological and needs renorming.
    We have a saying here... the support wheels need to come off. That's the phrase you're looking for. They're not toddlers anymore. Time to face the consequences.
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  9. #9
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyv3r View Post
    Money is never free. This "aid" surely has strings attached.
    ^ This.

    He likely rejects the terms, not the money.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    what's downright absurd as far as I'm concerned is that the Trumpian position aught to be, (in regards to Israel) - is 'go away'
    - But I'm pretty sure he hasn't actually told them to pay up or go fuck themselves as he has with everyone else.
    Because for all the US complaints about the EU not pulling its weight - especially because ultimately the US does not want them too - But Israel virtually never does what the US wants...
    If a Alien observed Earth - I'm pretty sure they would think that it must have been the US that organised the Holocaust or something - because not even Germany is quite as pliable as the US is.
    And that's just it. Actually even more, it's not just not doing what the US wants... if countries want to do that, fine, there will be consequences to the relationship, but it is there right. It's that they do it, turn around and wonder why we're ever more reluctant to have their back.

    It is a ridiculous position for the United States to be in effect, Israels lawyer. Israel should be concerned about its behavior, such as the illegal settlement's its built despite the explicit and regular disapproval and condemnation of both Barack Obama and George W Bush, alienating us.

    The US should absolutely take a bullet for nearly every single one of our allies in the world, who don't go out of their way to put us in a compromised position.

    Israel on the other hand? They'll do whatever they want - which is their right - and then they'll expect us to white knight for them, which is ridiculous.

    It's nauseating when some stupid politician here calls them our closest ally (they aren't, not by a long shot. Probably not even in the top 35) or our most important ally (I don't even know where to begin with that one... hello Germany/Japan/France/UK?)


    It would be truly amazing if our relationship with Israel were a normal one... normal for a country that has a population of 6.something million, in a region of the world whose importance is a fraction of what it was a decade ago, and whose importance is fading by the year as Asia-Pacific and Europe's importance rises.

    It would be nice if Israel actually respected the US, rather than acted like a spoiled brat. Obama should deny this aid package. If that drives Israel into Russian hands for a few years, no big loss. It's not like they haven't been selling our military tech to China for the past 15 years anyway (this is where those Chinese knock offs of US drones came from).
    Last edited by Skroe; 2016-04-29 at 11:49 AM.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    It would be nice if Israel actually respected the US, rather than acted like a spoiled brat. Obama should deny this aid package. If that drives Israel into Russian hands for a few years, no big loss. It's not like they haven't been selling our military tech to China for the past 15 years anyway (this is where those Chinese knock offs of US drones came from).
    That would be smart - It would force the Russians to keep Iran and Israel happy at the same time - Wonder if that is harder than Saudi Arabia and Israel?

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post

    It would be truly amazing if our relationship with Israel were a normal one... normal for a country that has a population of 6.something million, in a region of the world whose importance is a fraction of what it was a decade ago, and whose importance is fading by the year as Asia-Pacific and Europe's importance rises.

    It would be nice if Israel actually respected the US, rather than acted like a spoiled brat. Obama should deny this aid package. If that drives Israel into Russian hands for a few years, no big loss. It's not like they haven't been selling our military tech to China for the past 15 years anyway (this is where those Chinese knock offs of US drones came from).
    Shut it down!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Benjamin Netanyahu maybe?




    If he wants to punish Obama over the Iran deal by rejecting and extra billion a year... i mean go ahead.
    Think of all the things the US could build with $40bn? In Trump terms, that would be about 2.5 walls on the Mexican border. Or maybe 47.2 Trump towers.

    Personally I'd go for fixing some structurally deficient bridges, and updating a few municipal water supplies.

    Whats your pet project for 40 billion?
    Have a contest in each county of each state. There are 3,142 counties, and so a winner in each one would give them roughly $12,730,744 and change. That person must be required to give 50% to someone. That person must give 50% to another, and the next 50% and so forth, until the last person receives about 100,000 dollars. (That's about 7 people to go from 12 million, to 6 million, to 3 million, to 1.5 million, to 800k, to 400k, 200k, and then 100k.

    The real question is, what would the contest be?
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    well we can always hope the US decides to remind Israel who is the powerful party again.
    the terrorist?

  15. #15
    I do wonder what terms there are for those 40 billion... Probably something about Iran.

  16. #16
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    Think of how many bridges we could build...
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  17. #17
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyv3r View Post
    Money is never free. This "aid" surely has strings attached.
    Considering that AIPAC probably wrote most of the bill. I don't imagine the terms are any worse than previous bills.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Whats your pet project for 40 billion?
    I'd ensure public R&D funding for the Polywell in perpetuity. The US Navy was wrong to let the funding for that program elapse.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Benjamin Netanyahu maybe?




    If he wants to punish Obama over the Iran deal by rejecting and extra billion a year... i mean go ahead.
    Think of all the things the US could build with $40bn? In Trump terms, that would be about 2.5 walls on the Mexican border. Or maybe 47.2 Trump towers.

    Personally I'd go for fixing some structurally deficient bridges, and updating a few municipal water supplies.

    Whats your pet project for 40 billion?
    These aid packages are somewhat of a win-win thing for the US in a sense.

    Typically they are grants to buy US made military or defense related hardware, contracts, services and so on. This of course benefits Israel in a sense that they get new kit and stuff, but it also keeps subsidizing the bloated US defense industry.

    Bibi can go fuck himself with a pineapple. The US should give part of that grant to the Palestinian Authority to arm its police departments and to raise the wages of public servants and officials to reduce corruption, use another part to build schools and hospitals and another part as microloans for Palestinian businesses and individuals to help the Palestinians build their economy.

    Also the US should selectively join the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions program by severely restricting arms and defense related sales to Israel. Especially when we KNOW that Israel has sold US military technology to third parties like China and Russia.

  20. #20
    It will be curious to see what Trump does when he wins the election. Has he mentioned Israel?
    .

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