good nightborne

[Kithelle]

i really hope they're either a sub race for night elves or maybe they could get kooky and make them a sub race of blood elf, since their magical cultures mesh.

Sure, as long as Night Elves get High Elves as a sub race...

[Stormdash]

Maybe they become the Horde playable counterpart to Night Elves to justify high elves as Alliance playable Blood Elves.

[Mace]

I think the Elven peoples would most likely unite for the first time since the sundering in the revelation of Suramar and return of the legion.

New Elven NPC faction nation. Suramar captial. Night elves, nightborne, highborne, high elves, blood elves. this prevailing citadel of what was great about the past, in danger of been swept away with our world? Hell no! Suramar visibly reminds them of how much they actually lost, you may have buried it away in grief and shame at being corrupted by the arcane, or stubborn pride of refusing to bend, either way, nothing would quite rekindle your fire like seeing this and your anger at the legion for what it took away from you. What it cost your people. The lives, the world, but worse, your identity, tarnished every good memory. Beholding Suramar you see it all again, reminded the great extent of your loss.

The beauty of that place, a shining jewel of the glory of the past thriving with the devleopment of what could have been. This is what the legion robbed us of, our world could have had this, an example to the races, the amoutn of crazy shit that we could have stopped whole, strong, stuff that nearly wiped us out.. and nowt hey are back, and they want to end this as well, when we've just re-discovered it.

They wwant to enslave our kin again, use them, NEVER ! We're not going to let that happen. No, we will fight. For the first time in the surpirse and awe, visible evidence of what elves together as one can achieve, reminder that what they use to do was actually very good, and they did it very well, stacked up against the standing example that portends to the magnitiude of what the Legion robbed the elves of, would make them mad!

IT becomes more than just saving the world again or preserving life, but it becomes about saving their new hope, re-discovered identity, realisation that they are one people, much stronger together than apart, this is a new level of determination and drive that should come out of this. Easily enough to put aside the post sundering squabbles that broke them apart in the light of the returned evil that once more seeks to annhilate them .. no.

And there you have it. Nightborne are Night elven society that never split up or separated like the rest of the elves did after the sundering, ater they resisted the legion and saved their city, they continued for 10,000 years, within the confines of an unbreakable spell hiding and protecting their city, unaware that the world without was demon free. And so they continued to develop, grow, and now you see , no all elves see the degree of beauty and splendour they could have achieved if they had stuck together after the sundering.

Nightborne society obviously benefitted from the wake up call the Legion gave the elves, because they really do well for themselves. But now they've become so dependant, Ellisandre gives in to the legion thinking it's the only way to protect herself. Fortunately, those that disagree with her find help, from us. Nightborne, like Highborne are both night elf, high elf, blood elf together, this is why the place looks like that. You see a combination of both Darnassian and Thalassian architecture merged. IT has a more night elven structure set, but the lavish style of the high/blood elves - but better than both.

[Tripzzz]

Blizzard needs to add subraces at some point.

[Alanar]

This is my theory:

Blizzard is going to add subraces at some point and they aren't going to half-ass it. If it was a matter of just giving players Dark Iron Dwarf or Frost Troll skins they would have done it already.

No, if Blizz adds subraces it's going to be a touted expansion feature and we should expect quite a bit of work to be put into them.

And by work, I mean on the level of detail differentiating the Night Elves from the Nightborne.

Other high-fi subraces could be:

Tauren: Taunka
Human: Half-Elves
Orc: Upright Stance / Mag'har
Gnome: Mechagnome
Troll: Burlier Forest Trolls / Slender Sand Trolls
Dwarf: Dark Iron / Wildhammer (Huge variety of faces and Hairstyles)
Forsaken: Undead Elves

On the topic of Dryads/Keepers, I could see Blizz adding them as a whole new Alliance race that just doesn't use mounts. If there's anything to learn from Legion and Demon Hunters is that anything can happen, there's no idea too crazy if it's cool enough.

Half elves, there is maybe 2 of those in whole warcraft.. 1 is a dragon? They are not elves don't like this.
undead elves.. you prob mean the wrecthed? cus they share the undead skeleton, maybe it would work.

Dryads/keepers.. yea let those just be npc's and quest mobs please.

OT: Nightborne share the skeleton and are perfect for a subrace, use those as example, that's why wildhammer etc are fine as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, as long as Night Elves get High Elves as a sub race...

This doesn't make any sense.. you get a race into another race for something horde already has.

[Mace]

Half elves, there is maybe 2 of those in whole warcraft.. 1 is a dragon? They are not elves don't like this.
undead elves.. you prob mean the wrecthed? cus they share the undead skeleton, maybe it would work.

Dryads/keepers.. yea let those just be npc's and quest mobs please.

Half evles can easily become a thing, as well as not.

After Stormeim, Vrykul are a fan favourite for human sub-race although they could be a full horde race too, horde does need another more human race., but i'm not sure Vrykul is full race material.

[Alanar]

Half evles can easily become a thing, as well as not.

After Stormeim, Vrykul are a fan favourite for human sub-race although they could be a full horde race too, horde does need another more human race., but i'm not sure Vrykul is full race material.

Vrykul are cool enought to be a race on it's own,they have a whole kit with them lore/architecture etc. Vrykul are a bad example of being a human subrace.. they hate humans more then orcs and they don't even share the same model..

Half races half dreanei half elf no one cares.. I realy don't like this.. they don't realy fit imo.

[Kithelle]

Half elves, there is maybe 2 of those in whole warcraft.. 1 is a dragon? They are not elves don't like this.
undead elves.. you prob mean the wrecthed? cus they share the undead skeleton, maybe it would work.

Dryads/keepers.. yea let those just be npc's and quest mobs please.

OT: Nightborne share the skeleton and are perfect for a subrace, use those as example, that's why wildhammer etc are fine as well.

- - - Updated - - -



This doesn't make any sense.. you get a race into another race for something horde already has.

Oh yeah...and that isn't the exact same thing as giving highborne to belves as a sub race?

[Destinas]

This doesn't make any sense.. you get a race into another race for something horde already has.

It would be no different than giving orcs subraces with different skin tones, or dwarves different clans (Wildhammer, Dark Iron). They'd just get Blood Elves with blue eyes - perhaps different hair styles or face shapes to make them unique.

It should be noted that High Elves are a literal sub-race of Night Elves. They devolved when they got to the Eastern Kingdoms (due to either losing Elune's blessings, or being so far away from the second Well.)

[Alanar]

It would be no different than giving orcs subraces with different skin tones, or dwarves different clans (Wildhammer, Dark Iron). They'd just get Blood Elves with blue eyes - perhaps different hair styles or face shapes to make them unique.

It should be noted that High Elves are a literal sub-race of Night Elves. They devolved when they got to the Eastern Kingdoms (due to either losing Elune's blessings, or being so far away from the second Well.)

Literal subrace to night elves?.. they completely evolved in a different elf race.. no dude they are not the same.

plus it's hilarious you take the example of orcs and dwarves with wildhammer etc, when you play with the SAME model hence SUBrace.

Night elf high elf don't share model they are different in so many way.. it would be like this : High elf /Blood elf Nightelf/Nightborne... why don't you guys see this logic?

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yeah...and that isn't the exact same thing as giving highborne to belves as a sub race?

Are you blind?

It's the same as saying Vrykul should be a human subrace... they are a completely different race and don't share model.

I repeat:
Nightborne subrace of Night elves.
Wildhammer subrace to dwarves.
High elf subrace to Blood elf ( sunwell restored lore etc etc)

You realy don't get it? it's SUBrace of the same race, High elf with night elf subrace is destroying the whole purpose of a SUBrace.. specially when we have Blood elves.. Who already share the same model. That I would call slap in the face for the horde and by far not original.

/inb4 Topic beaten to death

[Destinas]

Literal subrace to night elves?.. they completely evolved in a different elf race.. no dude they are not the same.

plus it's hilarious you take the example of orcs and dwarves with wildhammer etc, when you play with the SAME model hence SUBrace.

Night elf high elf don't share model they are different in so many way.. it would be like this : High elf /Blood elf Nightelf/Nightborne... why don't you guys see this logic?

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying here.

Lore-wise, they are a sub-race to Night Elves, the exact same way the Nightborne are. The Nightborne just have more similar characteristics to Night Elves. In WoW, many sub-races are still considered part of the original race, even though they look nothing alike. The "race" is elves - the original elves were Night Elves (which, actually, are a sub-race of Trolls, mind you). The sub-race of Night Elves are Nightborne, High Elves, and Blood Elves. Though, technically, High Elves wouldn't be a sub-race of Blood Elves, using your logic. Blood Elves are slightly altered High Elves, in the end.

Another example is Eredar. The Eredar of the Burning Legion are also related to Draenei, Broken, Lost Ones, and Wrathguards. They're all still of the "eredar" race, because that was the original name of the original race (which the Draenei were the original Eredar). Orcs (tainted), Mag'har, and Fel Orcs are all still Orcs. The various tribes of Trolls are still Trolls. See what I'm saying?

However, you also seem to have missed my point about orcs and dwarves while attempting to find a flaw in it. I mentioned those because you stated the Horde already has elves that look like Blood Elves. My point was that it doesn't really matter if High Elves and Blood Elves look similar, since they can make something unique for them in the end anyway to differentiate them. The second part of my point was that if orcs and dwarves can have literal recolors as their subraces (which makes perfect lore sense) then Night Elves could have a race that looks similar to Blood Elves (which also makes lore sense).

Considering this is in the lore forum, it would help if people know the actual terminology about these various races and sub-races in lore.

[Kithelle]

Literal subrace to night elves?.. they completely evolved in a different elf race.. no dude they are not the same.

plus it's hilarious you take the example of orcs and dwarves with wildhammer etc, when you play with the SAME model hence SUBrace.

Night elf high elf don't share model they are different in so many way.. it would be like this : High elf /Blood elf Nightelf/Nightborne... why don't you guys see this logic?

- - - Updated - - -



Are you blind?

It's the same as saying Vrykul should be a human subrace... they are a completely different race and don't share model.

I repeat:
Nightborne subrace of Night elves.
Wildhammer subrace to dwarves.
High elf subrace to Blood elf ( sunwell restored lore etc etc)

You realy don't get it? it's SUBrace of the same race, High elf with night elf subrace is destroying the whole purpose of a SUBrace.. specially when we have Blood elves.. Who already share the same model. That I would call slap in the face for the horde and by far not original.

/inb4 Topic beaten to death

You ask if I'm blind? Considering my original post was as a reply to someone who suggested belves get nightborne as a sub race.

"i really hope they're either a sub race for night elves or maybe they could get kooky and make them a sub race of blood elf, since their magical cultures mesh."

In which I replied, "Sure, as long as Night Elves get High Elves as a sub race... "

[Mace]

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying here.

Lore-wise, they are a sub-race to Night Elves, the exact same way the Nightborne are. The Nightborne just have more similar characteristics to Night Elves. In WoW, many sub-races are still considered part of the original race, even though they look nothing alike. The "race" is elves - the original elves were Night Elves (which, actually, are a sub-race of Trolls, mind you). The sub-race of Night Elves are Nightborne, High Elves, and Blood Elves. Though, technically, High Elves wouldn't be a sub-race of Blood Elves, using your logic. Blood Elves are slightly altered High Elves, in the end.

Another example is Eredar. The Eredar of the Burning Legion are also related to Draenei, Broken, Lost Ones, and Wrathguards. They're all still of the "eredar" race, because that was the original name of the original race (which the Draenei were the original Eredar). Orcs (tainted), Mag'har, and Fel Orcs are all still Orcs. The various tribes of Trolls are still Trolls. See what I'm saying?

However, you also seem to have missed my point about orcs and dwarves while attempting to find a flaw in it. I mentioned those because you stated the Horde already has elves that look like Blood Elves. My point was that it doesn't really matter if High Elves and Blood Elves look similar, since they can make something unique for them in the end anyway to differentiate them. The second part of my point was that if orcs and dwarves can have literal recolors as their subraces (which makes perfect lore sense) then Night Elves could have a race that looks similar to Blood Elves (which also makes lore sense).

Considering this is in the lore forum, it would help if people know the actual terminology about these various races and sub-races in lore.

Agreed. High Elves work as a sub-race of blood elves and vice versa too, blood elves work as a subrace of high elves. Highborne work as a sub-race of night elves - sometimes sub-race is a different faction. In the case of high elves, the difference is philosophical and political. And yes there is a slight, very slight phisiological difference.

Highborne and night elf - well highborne are night elf, but so are high elf and blood elf - yet the last two are different enough from night elf asset wise in the game and philosophically for us to say..well okay, tha'ts easy. High elf can be a sub-race of highborne, highborne can be a sub-race of high elf, they are the same except, they also match the sub-race criteria. HIghborne are a different society of elves to both high elf and night elf up to cataclysm, but their assets are still night elf.

Higihborne and NIght elf are like High Elves and blood elves but they are not on different sides like the latter. Nightborne are Night Elves who like High elves change d a bit. Nightborne are a Night elf society taht didn't change. The reason we distinguish highborne from othe rnight elves is largely because of the fuss the Elves made over it after the sundering - a blame thing, almost to say, well it' smore your fault than mine sor t of thing. Nightborne society suffered no such thing, therefore they remained exactly what they are, night elves, no separation between highborne and non-highborne and as time wennt by the night well altered them a little. - or the difference was something like Priestessess of hte Moon versus non-prietesses sort of thing.

Nightfallen and withered are both sub-sets of nightobnre or night elf too.

Although night elves come from trolls, I'm not sure I would put them as a sub-race of trolls, because night elves are a new creation, a full new race in every sense. A complete transformation, distinc appearance, completely different characteristics, persanlities, bleif system, ideals, goals, assets, appearance it keeps going on. Dark troll is a sub race of troll, as is jungle troll, forest troll, ice troll etc. Elf feels a completely new thing, with only the knowledge that they came from dark trolls connecting them. This is unlike Earthen and Dwarves which bear strong similarities and connections the other being a slight iteration of the other.

Vrykul and human too, human could work as a sub-race of vrykul, the two are quite connected as well, but in-game Vrykul could work as a completely independent race because they have distinct assets.

Broken and Draenei, broken again I would say sub-race of draenei, even though the physical differences a larger, yet the two are still quite connected to each other.


At the end of the day, sub-race or minor faction? Are mag'har orcs a sub-race or minor faction of orc? It's actually both. But are Warsong and Frostwolf sub-races or minor factions? At a stretch you could say sub-races of orcs, but far more accurately a minor faction.
So how would you refer to High Elves then? A minor faction of blood elf? A sub-race of night elf? A minor faction of human?

[Maxilian]

Half elves, there is maybe 2 of those in whole warcraft.. 1 is a dragon? They are not elves don't like this.
undead elves.. you prob mean the wrecthed? cus they share the undead skeleton, maybe it would work.

Dryads/keepers.. yea let those just be npc's and quest mobs please.

OT: Nightborne share the skeleton and are perfect for a subrace, use those as example, that's why wildhammer etc are fine as well.

No, he didn't mean Wretched, he mean undead Elf (Like most of the Forsaken Dark Rangers)

I would give Wretched to the Blood Elfs as sub-race (give them an update model, like the Nightfallen -you know, that junky feel they have)

[Gaidax]

Well, I don't want to rain on the whole subrace parade, but Nightborne have no facial features or expressions, so I don't think these models are meant to be added as player choice, at least not now.

[Mace]

Lol.. Alanar what you faffing around... Ofc High Elves are a sub-race of night elves.. just as Worgen are a sub-race of human, but since Blood Elves are also playable and have totally different model , and we are thinking in terms of playability, it's hard to categorize them.

It's 100% technically correct to have them sub-races of each other, but are you going to align sub-race to:

Similar apperances: High Elves were until TBC, just white skinned night elves, with angled up ears - they used the same model, not anymore, so not really altho similarities are enough for you to go ..okay.. especially if you use Broken or Vrykul as sub-races for Draenei and Human
Political alliances: then you can't really call them sub-races, more like minor-factions. And you can put high elves with night elves or with Humans for that.
Genetically: Here they are definitely a sub-race


So Sub-race is a bit vague atm, largely it's really the different sub-groups we have met in each expansion that relate to each race. nightborne are the first night elf sub-race group - given that High Elves are a separate playable race, even though they would qualify under subrace rules. It's also different political factions, like Dwarf Sub-groups are near identical bu tyou will give them Wildhammer and Dark Iron because

[Maxilian]

Who cares how we call them, can we just accept that that's really not the topic, i mean... for all we care they could be called "Sub-faction" or just divide the race in clans (for example for Dwarfs -the 3 clans that rule the Dwarfs- and the Orcs)