"Undergearing" Mythic Archimonde

[Kikazz]

You know you can still press Starfall with OoV equipped right? I do agree that they should equip SoC because playing with OoV+Starfall is slightly more complicated for the same(-ish) result and apart from the original burst you don't gain anything significant, but SoC is by no means required for going big dick on Infernals.

well when there main issue is the infernals i would say it would in fact make it a requirement for them?

but not using it and casting starfall, is lost empowerments on wrath and starfire, and overall lower dps.

OoV, doesnt outway seed on fights like Mythic archimonde.

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Lal so funny.

Thanks for all the help to the guys that actually added to the help of the kill. Cheers!

Congrats on the kill

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Of course it's funny, you haven't killed Mannoroth for 1.5 months already and you had just that one kill. You haven't killed Xhul since 15.2.2016. Gratz on the guild achievements, but i wouldn't be proud, if i couldn't repeat the feat. Shame your last log doesn't show the kill (armory does, tho). Feel Free to inform us of your further progress.

a bit narky considering its their first kill.

everyone has to start somewhere.

[Adramelch]

well when there main issue is the infernals i would say it would in fact make it a requirement for them?

but not using it and casting starfall, is lost empowerments on wrath and starfire, and overall lower dps.

OoV, doesnt outway seed on fights like Mythic archimonde.

I've routinely done 6-7 million damage on infernals with either trinket, so no it's not a requirement. Also saying "but not using it and casting starfall, is lost empowerments on wrath and starfire, and overall lower dps" is assuming you have no trinket equipped instead OoV. I'm not trying to argue that OoV is better than SoC, but it's actually rather close (and will outdps it with good RNG, but you can't rely on that) and therefore using SoC is not a requirement. I'm still playing with SoC and, as I said in the post you quoted, I do agree they do as well, but having played with OoV I wouldn't say it sucks on infernals.

[Fabinas]

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a bit narky considering its their first kill.

everyone has to start somewhere.

Don't get me wrong, it's good they killed him, but if you see their log history it has been "push this boss till it dies, extend lockout next week". They have killed Mannoroth and Archi once, Xhul once or twice, can't remember. There's such a disconnection from those bosses for months, i fear their feat will not be repeated without big difficulty. Their guild, their choice, but i'd go for unlocking Mannoroth first, before wiping for 1.5 months on Archi.

[Tusq]

Of course it's funny, you haven't killed Mannoroth for 1.5 months already and you had just that one kill. You haven't killed Xhul since 15.2.2016. Gratz on the guild achievements, but i wouldn't be proud, if i couldn't repeat the feat. Shame your last log doesn't show the kill (armory does, tho). Feel Free to inform us of your further progress.

I don't understand where you're coming from.. What's your problem? I don't know what's wrong with the logs, but the 1% wipe is the kill :s.. We only had 3 people left in the end, so maybe it's because a total of 20 people had died at this point? idk.

And why would we not be able to repeat the feat?

[Adramelch]

And why would we not be able to repeat the feat?

Because you effectively don't have 3 bosses on farm (Xhul, Manno or Archi - one could even include Zakuun and Tyrant there but those get so trivialized with gear it's not even worth mentioning). It's a valid "concern" and you should expect to struggle on bosses you've only killed once (and two of them, quite a while ago).

[Deleted]

And why would we not be able to repeat the feat?

Because you effectively don't have 3 bosses on farm (Xhul, Manno or Archi - one could even include Zakuun and Tyrant there but those get so trivialized with gear it's not even worth mentioning). It's a valid "concern" and you should expect to struggle on bosses you've only killed once (and two of them, quite a while ago).

First time I hear a claim that someone can't repeat a kill. They farmed as well. They farmed archimonde and I bet it dropped a lot of max ilevel loot since 20 tokens were used.

[Adramelch]

First time I hear a claim that someone can't repeat a kill. They farmed as well. They farmed archimonde and I bet it dropped a lot of max ilevel loot since 20 tokens were used.

Yeah, there was probably something missing in my post. They should be able to repeat it, they just shouldn't expect it to be smooth seeing as there's more than 1 boss not on farm for them.

[Tusq]

Ofcourse we don't expect it to be a breeze. But we've got a bit more gear etc. I expect us to wipe more on Manno than we will on 2nd archi kill to be fair!

[psyquest]

To know who is literally a 3 day guild you have to check the individual guilds more closely.

A lot of them raid a lot more during progress than during farm.

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totally true. a lot of guilds advertise 3 nights guilds but are anything but strict 3 nights guilds

On my server there are guilds that are 3 nights AFTER progress is done, during progress they raid 5 to 7 nights. There are guilds that adversite 3 nights.... out of 5 or 6 nights, meaning the guild raid 5 or 6 nights and players are asked to raid a minimum of 3...

If there was a way to check for STRICT 3 nights raiding, I am sure the ladder would look very differently. if anyone care for a strict x nights raiding ladder that is.

congrats on the kill.


from experience, you will be able to quite easily kill archimonde again. Mannoroth will take you some work again. Xhul is still a bitch because anyone can still fuck it up.

[Fabinas]

First time I hear a claim that someone can't repeat a kill. They farmed as well. They farmed archimonde and I bet it dropped a lot of max ilevel loot since 20 tokens were used.

When you manage to kill 2 bosses within 3 months, each boss taking you 1.5 months or around 6 resets each, i doubt that the next kills on those bosses will be one shot. At any rate, when you have 6 resets to kill a boss, and all those resets spent on trying to kill another, the things that clicked together on the first kill will take some time to settle back in. On the loot subject, heh, rng on tokens... you might lose the bet.. total loot from boss and tokens was 11 pieces, maybe 12 (according to armory). That's including weapons and trinkets.

[Deleted]

When you manage to kill 2 bosses within 3 months, each boss taking you 1.5 months or around 6 resets each, i doubt that the next kills on those bosses will be one shot. At any rate, when you have 6 resets to kill a boss, and all those resets spent on trying to kill another, the things that clicked together on the first kill will take some time to settle back in. On the loot subject, heh, rng on tokens... you might lose the bet.. total loot from boss and tokens was 11 pieces, maybe 12 (according to armory). That's including weapons and trinkets.

That's true, but it was a different matter. I questioned a statement that answered positively to the OP asking if they will not do it at all. That it will be harder of course it will be.

We had not done upper floor for a month and we needed tries to even remember what we were doing for example.

[Fabinas]

It shows you don't actually follow the discussion. I was the one that doubted the next kills, not @Adramelch, who just chimed in for support.

[Deleted]

It shows you don't actually follow the discussion. I was the one that doubted the next kills, not @Adramelch, who just chimed in for support.

Not every reply is about you. I was answering to Adramelch.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Not every reply is about you. I was answering to Adramelch.

I imagine it helps people understand who you are replying to if you quote the actual person you are replying to

[Fabinas]

Not every reply is about you. I was answering to Adramelch.

You quoted me. Keeping up the post count boost, aye?

[Jotaux]

Congrats on the kill! Don't let people diminish what you did.

[Deleted]

Hey all, GM/RL of the OP's guild here checking in. Many thanks to the guys who posted useful, constructive feedback - much appreciated! Similarly, not so many thanks to those derailing the thread with ridiculously irrelevant conversation.

I know the idea to keep the lockout extended seems to have miffed a few people, but this was done for a couple of reasons.
We raid on a strict 2 nights/6 hours-per-week schedule and try to use our time as efficiently as possible. Making the decision between reclearing and extending is always a difficult one, but thankfully our raid team is extremely close and loyal, and they've been with us 100% all the way through progress. After learning the fight, the majority of our wipes were down to either Tanking blunders (we realise this is something we need to sort out urgently) and random fuck-ups in phase 3. We felt that we definitely had the damage throughput to be able to kill him, so we opted to persevere and not pussy-foot around for another (probable) 1 or 2 resets clearing back up to him, and when you weigh-up the time spent re-clearing vs. the extra face-time with the boss, the difference in date of the kill would probably be negligible.

We ended up killing him after about 260 wipes, which is high, but it felt good getting the first kill without having a decked-out team of 740+, plus we ended up beating 2 other guilds on our realm to the kill who raid more than us and started Mythic WAY earlier (we started in early November).

Sorry for the rambling, just thought I'd provide some context. Thanks again for the help, chaps!

[Deleted]

Hey all, GM/RL of the OP's guild here checking in. Many thanks to the guys who posted useful, constructive feedback - much appreciated! Similarly, not so many thanks to those derailing the thread with ridiculously irrelevant conversation.

I know the idea to keep the lockout extended seems to have miffed a few people, but this was done for a couple of reasons.
We raid on a strict 2 nights/6 hours-per-week schedule and try to use our time as efficiently as possible. Making the decision between reclearing and extending is always a difficult one, but thankfully our raid team is extremely close and loyal, and they've been with us 100% all the way through progress. After learning the fight, the majority of our wipes were down to either Tanking blunders (we realise this is something we need to sort out urgently) and random fuck-ups in phase 3. We felt that we definitely had the damage throughput to be able to kill him, so we opted to persevere and not pussy-foot around for another (probable) 1 or 2 resets clearing back up to him, and when you weigh-up the time spent re-clearing vs. the extra face-time with the boss, the difference in date of the kill would probably be negligible.

We ended up killing him after about 260 wipes, which is high, but it felt good getting the first kill without having a decked-out team of 740+, plus we ended up beating 2 other guilds on our realm to the kill who raid more than us and started Mythic WAY earlier (we started in early November).

Sorry for the rambling, just thought I'd provide some context. Thanks again for the help, chaps!

I was thinking recently of that situation of gearing VS extending balance. I feel like there is point that one or the other becomes more worth it but it's hard to identify exactly when that happens. I estimate very roughly that if one is going to stay on a boss for at least around 7 to 8 more nights, it might be worth it going back doing some farming for 1-2 days, but again, it doesn't seem very easy to estimate exactly.