Woman Claims She Deserves Maternity Leave Even Though She Has No Kids

[Damajin]

That "me" time is your vacation... you already get it, stop whining.

As soon as I saw this thread that's exactly what I thought. Welcome to vacation time, we know she's familiar with that.

[Kourvith]

No, she does not have a point.

Anyone who thinks taking care of an infant is a "vacation" is immeasurably vapid and clueless.

It's been the 3rd or 4th quote of my post reacting to something that's not even mentionned.

She got a point in a way. not on the maternity leave, but on being expected to do more hours than people with kids.

It's not about vacation, or faking a maternity, it's about being magically expected to work off the clock repeatedly when you don't have any kind of social justification. What happens out of work, and therefore any reason to need evening time, is no concern of your employer. Being allowed to have a life and to say no to crunch should not be restrained to having a family. Parents shouldn't feel sorry for this, they are in their rights. But they shouldn't be the only exception. "I have a life" should be sufficient to say no to crunch, which is often received with rolling eyes.

[jimboa24]

So terrible analogy. Roger.

Not a terrible analogy. Maternity/Paternity leave is not a vacation. Seriously, anyone who thinks parenting a newborn is a vacation has no fucking clue what they're talking about. It's a huge tip-off that they've never had to take care of a child. It's leave for a specific purpose, to take care of a newborn child, because doing so is impossible while working a full-time job. You'd never get any sleep, ever. Plus, the first month or two are vital in bonding with a child.

Maternity/paternity leave =/= vacation time; if anything, it's more akin to sick leave. And it's available to anyone, gay, straight, or anything inbetween, so no, it's not discriminatory. The only requirement for it is that you have a newborn child you need to take care of...just like a requirement of sick leave is that you actually are sick and need time off to recover.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not about vacation, or faking a maternity, it's about being magically expected to work off the clock when you don't have any kind of social responsibility. What happens out of work, and therefore any reason to need personal time, is no concern of your employer. Being allowed to have a life and to say no to crunch should not be restrained to having a family. Parents have nothing to feel concerned about this, they are in their rights. But they shouldn't be the only exception.

Actually, you're dead wrong. Part of the realities of being an adult and working a job is that you are expected to work the hours your boss assigns you. The system isn't without mercy, so most decent jobs give you three allowances: sick time, paid time off (aka vacation time) and FMLA (family/medical leave of absence). A fourth allowance is mandated by the government, and that is maternity leave. Some jobs offer full or partial paid leave, some do not. All of these allowances have one thing in common: they allow you to take care of major, life-changing issues that come up. They are not "oh, I'm just sick of work and need 'me time!'"

Reality check: if you use sick time, FMLA or maternity/paternity leave just because you're tired of work and want "you" time, you can and will get fired. If you don't want to work, either quit, or ask your boss if you can have some time off (understanding that he/she is well within their rights to say no). But workers aren't owed "me" time by their bosses. That's why you can tell your boss when you get hired what hours you can or are willing to work. If you can't take the workload, don't take the job.

[Kourvith]

Actually, you're dead wrong. Part of the realities of being an adult and working a job is that you are expected to work the hours your boss assigns you. The system isn't without mercy, so most decent jobs give you three allowances: sick time, paid time off (aka vacation time) and FMLA (family/medical leave of absence). A fourth allowance is mandated by the government, and that is maternity leave. Some jobs offer full or partial paid leave, some do not. All of these allowances have one thing in common: they allow you to take care of major, life-changing issues that come up. They are not "oh, I'm just sick of work and need 'me time!'"

Reality check: if you use sick time, FMLA or maternity/paternity leave just because you're tired of work and want "you" time, you can and will get fired. If you don't want to work, either quit, or ask your boss if you can have some time off (understanding that he/she is well within their rights to say no). But workers aren't owed "me" time by their bosses. That's why you can tell your boss when you get hired what hours you can or are willing to work. If you can't take the workload, don't take the job.

Are you misunderstanding on purpose or what ? I'm not talking about taking your day off, I'm talking precisely about what you mention in your argument : the hours your boss assigns you. And these hours are assigned in your contract. Any added hour is considered as overwork. Overwork is not something that is inherently granted.

My point : overwork avoidance is more easily granted when you bring some kind of social justification, like a meeting, a sport event or a family. My point is that most of the people who want to refuse overwork have to justify it with some kind of "you know, I have this, and that, I'd wish but I can't tonight.". They are often forced to lie about it so they don't get a bad rep in front of other workers who do accept overwork in silence. And this is just stupid.

[Hammerfest]

This would only be true if you don't have to work extra to pick up the slack left by others.

True... and there is a solution for that. Get pregnant.

[Lenonis]

True... and there is a solution for that. Get pregnant.

I'm going to go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt on whether or not that was a serious response in any way shape or form.

[jimboa24]

Are you misunderstanding on purpose or what ? I'm not talking about taking your day off, I'm talking precisely about what you mention in your argument : the hours your boss assigns you. And these hours are assigned in your contract. Any added hour is considered as overwork. Overwork is not something that is inherently granted.

Yeah, but are you not arguing that non-parents should be granted the equivalent of maternity/paternity leave out of some fucked-up idea of "fairness" because maternity/paternity leave is some kind of extra "vacation" non-parents don't get (lmao)?

[Kourvith]

Yeah, but are you not arguing that non-parents should be granted the equivalent of maternity/paternity leave out of some fucked-up idea of "fairness" because maternity/paternity leave is some kind of extra "vacation" non-parents don't get (lmao)?

Absolutely not xD

(well at least that was a fun misunderstanding )

[Hammerfest]

I'm going to go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt on whether or not that was a serious response in any way shape or form.

I'm serious. The time off comes when you have a baby. That's the criteria. If a woman wants maternity leave, she needs to get pregnant. It's a simple concept.

[Xisa]

It's been the 3rd or 4th quote of my post reacting to something that's not even mentionned.

It's not about vacation, or faking a maternity, it's about being magically expected to work off the clock repeatedly when you don't have any kind of social justification. What happens out of work, and therefore any reason to need evening time, is no concern of your employer. Being allowed to have a life and to say no to crunch should not be restrained to having a family. Parents shouldn't feel sorry for this, they are in their rights. But they shouldn't be the only exception. "I have a life" should be sufficient to say no to crunch, which is often received with rolling eyes.

I didn't mention it because it's still nonsense.

I don't know if this has occurred to you or not, but there is no human race without babies. It's over.
No new workers, tax base, system support...anything.

Taking care of infants is a monumentally time-consuming task. It's a person that has to eat every 2-3 hours, cannot feed itself, and has to be cleaned and clothed in that same time-frame. Mothers / Fathers (whoever the primary caretaker is) of newborns rarely sleep more than 2 hours at a time. The first 4-6 weeks are the worst, which is why even in a country like the US with its terrible social programs Maternity leave is 6 weeks.

You think the crux of this is "Having a life". It is not. That's what your vacation time is for.

This is about caring for children. It is more important than what you're talking about. I know you may not think that, but you would be wrong.
This is no future, for anything, without this. That is why employers give it an exception, and why something pithy and nonsensical like "I need more ME time" is rightfully ignored.

[jimboa24]

Absolutely not xD

(well at least that was a fun misunderstanding )

Overwork (known in the states as overtime) is illegal to just force employees to do it unless employees waive their right to refuse overtime when they are hired, or they are working a salary position that doesn't pay them by the hour. Either way, no one is taking maternity or paternity leave to avoid overtime. They're doing it specifically to take time off to take care of their child. I have no idea how or why overtime became a part of this discussion.

[Lenonis]

I'm serious. The time off comes when you have a baby. That's the criteria. If a woman wants maternity leave, she needs to get pregnant. It's a simple concept.

Other than extending that to include paternity leave as well I actually don't have a ton of issues with maternity leave itself. It's more the general flexibility that is given to parents that often isn't also extended to non-parents.

Need to leave early to go to parent-teacher conferences? Go right on ahead. Need to work from home because school is off today? Feel free.

Need to leave early to get to a concert? Forget it. Need to work from home for whatever reason that isn't child related? Forget it.

That's the part I really object to. Companies should either have a flexible work policy or not. Period.

[xChurch]

I'm sure women are totally having full days of just "me time" during their maternity leave, not like they have a baby to watch over or anything during that time, nope just kicking back drinking margaritas.

[Lenonis]

This is about caring for children. It is more important than what you're talking about. I know you may not think that, but you would be wrong.
This is no future, for anything, without this. That is why employers give it an exception, and why something pithy and nonsensical like "I need more ME time" is rightfully ignored.

Having children is a choice -- and people should accept the consequences of that choice. Making having children out to be some kind of awful burden that everyone should be awed at you for is silly.

As I stated earlier maternity time makes sense from a FLMA/Sick time perspective (for at least some period of time anyway) but the general level of leeway given to people with families is questionable when that isn't also extended for other reasons.

[Azgraal]

Did your friend get "ghosted on okcupid"? Then leave-away, my friend!

I don't think so, but my dragon has caught fairy poxy again...

[jimboa24]

Need to leave early to go to parent-teacher conferences? Go right on ahead. Need to work from home because school is off today? Feel free.

Need to leave early to get to a concert? Forget it. Need to work from home for whatever reason that isn't child related? Forget it.

That's the part I really object to. Companies should either have a flexible work policy or not. Period.

Companies are not at all flexible like that. I know for a fact because I am a parent. The only time companies are flexible with parents is when a woman gets pregnant and is late enough that it affects her ability to do her job, and for a few months after the child is born. And that's it. The only reason they are flexible is because it is illegal for them not to be.

But beyond that, companies don't give a shit about parent-teacher conferences or anything else. That's your problem, and they expect you to figure it out just as they would if you didn't have a child and just wanted to see a concert or a movie.

[Lenonis]

Companies are not at all flexible like that.

Some are, some aren't. It's a range between "you have to be in no later than 9AM and cannot leave any earlier than 5PM" and "work whenever and whereever you like as long as you get your work done."

I'm very fortunate. My company has tended towards being on the more flexible side, and I've been able to leave work early for a variety of reasons including personal ones. They also do things like summer hours and the like. But I know people who work in environments where people can use kids as an excuse to get away with things that other people could never do.

[Hammerfest]

Other than extending that to include paternity leave as well I actually don't have a ton of issues with maternity leave itself.

I actually kinda do. I think if you're a woman and you want to have a baby, you should quit work and let some other, non-baby-having-person take over for you. I'm old fashioned like that. I also do NOT buy into any of the "paternity leave" concept. That's utter bullshit as far as I'm concerned.

[Lenonis]

I actually kinda do. I think if you're a woman and you want to have a baby, you should quit work and let some other, non-baby-having-person take over for you. I'm old fashioned like that. I also do NOT buy into any of the "paternity leave" concept. That's utter bullshit as far as I'm concerned.

Sooooo...what does a dad whose wife died in childbirth do then?

[Paranoid Android]

I knew who the author of this post was before I even clicked. I suppose this outlier and a few others show that these ungrateful women are just trying to take over. Oh my!!