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  1. #1321
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom4u2 View Post
    I don't think we'll ever convince the other side they're wrong, and they'll definitely never convince us they're right. Honestly, some are overly cautious, some don't want to admit defeat. I personally believe in facts. That we're setting a new precedent, that past games did it successfully, that Blizzard is currently working on refreshing their old games, that they've been very open (contrarily to ever before, actually), that we've generated a huge amount of publicity and that there's a market.

    Attacks on Kern can roughly be translated to Ad Hominem, where it's easier to attack someone than the facts he presents.
    In regards to the attacks on Kern, Yes and no. For the record, I like the idea of available legacy content (I play old games all the time).

    From a strictly logic point of view, not all of the targeting of Kern is necessarily ad Hominem, as some of them are relevant to the discussion of legacy servers (game design philosophy and corporate ethics).

    You do bring up an excellent point though, much like the flying debacle last year, you're not going to convince everyone that one side is right or wrong. Binary thinking is sadly a core component of the basis of western knowledge, which is often abused, such as in politics.
    Last edited by Treno; 2016-04-29 at 10:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Holy fuck. If we banned everyone that simply posted for attention-whoring purposes half the site would go dark.

  2. #1322
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    If they wanted to they could license their product to anyone they want.
    I will take them at their word that they've looked into it and could not find a clear legal path that both protects their IP and allows them to grant a license to a pirate server.

    I have no idea legally if it changes things so that they grant the group a license and only then they put up a server after receiving a license and working out terms.

    But I'm not going to sit here and call them liars. Just won't. That's for others.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  3. #1323
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I will take them at their word that they've looked into it and could not find a clear legal path that both protects their IP and allows them to grant a license to a pirate server.

    I have no idea legally if it changes things so that they grant the group a license and only then they put up a server after receiving a license and working out terms.

    But I'm not going to sit here and call them liars. Just won't. That's for others.
    Other companies license stuff all the time and still remain the owners of the IP.

    The main fear for Blizzard bigwigs is imo slipping the player-base and then splitting the revenue

  4. #1324
    Deleted
    can't u guys stop this circlejerk yet? it's been 2 weeks of the same crap and tbf me and i bet a lot of ppl are tired of it. if u don't like the game in it's current state, don't play it. like realöy?

    i know im feeding

  5. #1325
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    Other companies license stuff all the time and still remain the owners of the IP.
    My point--which you apparently skipped over completely--was that licensing an IP to someone who is actively infringing sets up a precedent that they may not want to do and legally might be difficult. I have no idea at all about the precise legalities of the situation but I could well imagine that following the normal rules of how things are done, which starts with the license before anyone does any infringement might legally be a different situation. Nost admins would probably have to incorporate and then proceed with what they're about based on the conditions of the license. That is totally different than what started this. The sequence of how things are done matters when negotiating contracts and licenses.

    If the main fear for Blizzard bigwigs is splitting revenue with someone I can't imagine why they would say they looked into it.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2016-04-29 at 11:18 PM.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  6. #1326
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I will take them at their word that they've looked into it and could not find a clear legal path that both protects their IP and allows them to grant a license to a pirate server. I have no idea legally if they grant the group a license and only then they put up another server if that changes the situation. But I'm not going to sit here and call them liars. Just won't. That's for others.
    I thought we could have a sensible conversation about the topic but obviously not.

  7. #1327
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by nameless113 View Post
    can't u guys stop this circlejerk yet? it's been 2 weeks of the same crap and tbf me and i bet a lot of ppl are tired of it. if u don't like the game in it's current state, don't play it. like realöy?

    i know im feeding
    Ye its a total circle jerk and they ran out of lube days ago :S I've lost energy to reply to most things now as its all opinion bases with loose factual evidence that can be used either way. The nost team meeting blizzard isnt going to give the pro legacy server crowd the answer there looking for because lets fa. Its just a PR stunt and with the nost team to try and nip this all in the butt.

  8. #1328
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom4u2 View Post
    Attacks on Kern can roughly be translated to Ad Hominem, where it's easier to attack someone than the facts he presents.
    Everyone is just interested in getting the Legacy servers happening, one way or another. It doesn't matter who is presenting them. Those are the facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  9. #1329
    Quote Originally Posted by Propheteu View Post
    Ye its a total circle jerk and they ran out of lube days ago :S I've lost energy to reply to most things now as its all opinion bases with loose factual evidence that can be used either way. The nost team meeting blizzard isnt going to give the pro legacy server crowd the answer there looking for because lets fa. Its just a PR stunt and with the nost team to try and nip this all in the butt.
    You don't know that. Don't really see how we are running out of steam, when things are continuously moving along.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Ah come on Granyala, there's several possible reasons for it. A few that would get us banned here like pointing out a deficite in his mental capacity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oktoberfest View Post
    Man I swear, every time someone uses the term 'Critical Thinking' I want to pop em in the mouth.

  10. #1330
    Bloodsail Admiral Transmigration's Avatar
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    That guy looks and sounds like a douchebag and a half.

  11. #1331
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    Iam all for this but pettion and vanilla servers

    But having Mark Kern as the poster boy for this campaign is a disservice to everyone involved.
    So long as the servers happen, no one cares how or who it involves.

    And from what I've seen so far, Mark Kern's involvement in the whole ordeal seems to have been the only thing that has had an affect on Blizzard. So, if he needs to be the "poster boy" in order for Legacy servers to become a reality, then so be it. You won't see me complaining.

  12. #1332
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bapestar View Post
    You don't know that. Don't really see how we are running out of steam, when things are continuously moving along.
    Yes i don't know 100% as it hasnt happened yet but what i can do is make an educated guess by taking in all the facts i do know and make my opinion based on them and is vital for an adult discussion.Plus if the leaders of the charge for legacy servers turn around and say its not viable for blizzard to do them do you honestly think it wont affect the push to get them ? really?
    Last edited by mmoc8954eb3394; 2016-04-30 at 12:15 AM.

  13. #1333
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    If they wanted to they could license their product to anyone they want.

    They are not going to license their IP not only do they limit their profits (although maybe they expect the Nost. people to work for free) but they expose themselves to risks that are out of their control.

    I would say that if they want anything from the Nost guys it would be use of the Nost name.
    Now this would be a hilarious turn of events...a wine and dine for the simple legal reason of using the Nost name for Blizzard's "pristine" server, with Kern as the poster boy for pristine servers and why they are a good idea. I'm not saying that's what is happening, but damn that would be funny. Hilarious in a sad way, but no less hilarious.
    Last edited by Eapoe; 2016-04-30 at 12:18 AM.

  14. #1334
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
    and here is a post about why he got fired from red5 for being a big egoistic thoughtless and rather brutal.
    Fired.
    So he saw features that weren't up to snuff and said they needed to be redone? Like oldschool Blizzard did before it started putting out polished turds?

    Seems like smart design to me. Why release junk?

  15. #1335
    Quote Originally Posted by hydrium View Post
    So he saw features that weren't up to snuff and said they needed to be redone? Like oldschool Blizzard did before it started putting out polished turds?

    Seems like smart design to me. Why release junk?
    Part of the problem is that, according to the source, were changes he changed and changes and changed, and then berated people because the changes he changed he didn't like. I don't know if that's for real, but that's 1 employees interpretation of events and how he acted as a boss.

  16. #1336
    This discussion is not even about whether it's good or bad for WoW whether we have legacy server. It's about people that prematurely made up their mind it should/shouldn't be done and now twist every progress in either direction to back up their stance. Even if we do get legacy servers the very same persons that said it will never happen simply move on to the next prediction that it will be short lived etc. Just that one day they can ultimately say: "See I told you! I was right all along, you were wrong!" It's not a rational discussion, at least half of it is just right/wrong babbling that want to proof their opinion is correct.

    Instead people should focus that as many people as possible can enjoy WoW, in whatever form that may be. The more people play, the longer WoW can live on and the more fun you will have. It always puzzles me when people get so infuriated about a simple desire of people enjoying a game they like/liked. If WoW would be doomed to die it's certainly not because of any addition such as a legacy service, if anything more services mean more options for all kinds of people to enjoy a game further increasing it's limited lifetime. It's almost as if the next big thing to retail WoW can't happen because of legacy servers.

    The goal for EVERY player should be that as many people as possible can enjoy WoW because otherwise it really is deemed to fail.

  17. #1337
    Personally, I've never said it shouldn't happen, I've just pointed out issues it can cause and that ultimately it's Blizzards decision to do it or not. If Legacy happens, great, I'm happy for you guys. It's not something I personally want or can see myself spending time in.
    My only issue will be f this effects retail in any way, which is yet to be seen. The problem I will have is if I see the dev team behind retail working on a Legacy server, and thereby taking time away from working on retail then I will probably be out the door and moving on to other things. Not out of a grudge, but simply, I play retail, I won't spend time on Legacy for a game that has a progression stop AND a game that is the same game that evolves, it just seems like a waste of time to me.
    As stated, I just hope if Legacy happens everyone benefits and no feared drawbacks or consequences happen.

  18. #1338
    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    No. They are saying that the game is already dying. Taking any population away from the live servers only hurts the game. Will the legacy be more popular? Not a chance. But if some servers already feel empty and even a small percentage choose to play legacy more then the live server ends up in an even worse spot.
    Then enable Legacy servers on the same ticket as the current subscription fee. That will bring players back to the game, adding potentially millions more to the current sub base, and they will have access to both current and legacy content. Current until they have downtime and then they can play Vanilla. Gives others a chance to check it out too, without having to fork out additional payments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    ... Are you really insinuating that you never, ever thought possible that some people actually do prefer vanilla over retail, whatever their reasons may be?
    I don't doubt that. Which makes me wonder if Legacy servers were to be enabled, if people who had never played it would find it more enjoyable than current content.

    That would encourage Blizzard to make decisions more in-line with their original philosophies, instead of trying to be innovative for the sake of innovation.

  19. #1339
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    Other companies license stuff all the time and still remain the owners of the IP.

    The main fear for Blizzard bigwigs is imo slipping the player-base and then splitting the revenue
    Look up fantastic four and marvel. it's not as simple as you think

  20. #1340
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Part of the problem is that, according to the source, were changes he changed and changes and changed, and then berated people because the changes he changed he didn't like. I don't know if that's for real, but that's 1 employees interpretation of events and how he acted as a boss.
    Can we please not forget the $3 million bus the dumbass commissioned that he himself admitted was a complete failure?

    Oh, and I found Kern's currently active Reddit account. A+.

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