One million Americans vow to boycott Target over transgender bathrooms

[Verzen]

"American Family Association, one of the most prominent and respected family advocacy groups in the nation"

ROFL!!!

http://www.hrc.org/blog/yes-the-amer...l-a-hate-group

It's a hate group.

[RickJamesLich]

In the US, most places don't have laws that say this group of people goes to this bathroom and this other group goes to the other bathroom, that is why NC had to pass a law that said that. At most gender restrictions in bathrooms is a custom or cultural norm but not a legal one.

Yeah it wasn't a law because it was not common to see people of the opposite sex go into the wrong restroom on a consistent basis, something which is new now. This is really more of a moral issue than a legal one, for the people that are against what Target is doing. But as I said, gender restrictions have been going on for a VERY long time, for generations people have found them reasonable and have had no problem, including a LOT Of people today. So why not respect their wish for privacy?

[Wells]

No. You're ID'd if you're suspected of a crime. Big difference.

In practice this just means that CIS people get to live their life like they always have and people who don't meet some arbitrary standard of physical gender conformity have to be ready to ID themselves to take a leak.

[Merkava]

Why do we need to change anything? This is a "solution" in search of a problem.

You don't think trans people should be allowed to change the gender on their birth certificate and ID card before they've undergone sexual reassignment surgery?

[Wildtree]

In the US, most places don't have laws that say this group of people goes to this bathroom and this other group goes to the other bathroom, that is why NC had to pass a law that said that. At most gender restrictions in bathrooms is a custom or cultural norm but not a legal one.

No, there must be restrooms for both men/women separate. That's also reflected accordingly in the building codes, and business permits
There are exceptions for very very small venues.

[Prokne]

Guys, I'm in favor of LGBT rights as much as anyone here, and I think my posting history reflects that. What I'm not in favor of are laws allowing lecherous fuckers like me to shower with young girls simply by declaring that they happen to "identify as a woman" on that particular day. If you can write the law that prevents that while still giving trans people the rights they deserve, then I'd support it. In the interim, the only sensible alternative is to loosen the requirements for trans people to have their ID reflect the gender that they identify with. I don't think my position is that extreme.

The easy solution is for a doctor or therapist to write something like a permission slip that says this person is legally transgender. People who just decided they are transgender don't really need to start using the opposite bathroom immediately anyway, and it would only take one appointment to be legitimized. I'm not sure exactly why bathroom non-discrimination laws after the Huston debacle didn't think about adding qualifiers for who counts as transgender for the purpose of using specific restrooms, it would have quashed the rapist impersonating TGs BS.

[Wells]

You don't think trans people should be allowed to change the gender on their birth certificate and ID card before they've undergone sexual reassignment surgery?

Don't play stupid Merkava.

[Merkava]

In practice this just means that CIS people get to live their life like they always have and people who don't meet some arbitrary standard of physical gender conformity have to be ready to ID themselves to take a leak.

No that's not at all what I've said. In fact, I think I said the opposite.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't play stupid Merkava.

Fuck off. How's that?

[Wells]

No that's not at all what I've said. In fact, I think I said the opposite.

You're defending ID checks for bathrooms while saying it should be easier to change your ID. There is no problem that this is actually addressing and like I just said there is no real world in which this is fairly applied.

[Mad_Murdock]

At most gender restrictions in bathrooms is a custom or cultural norm but not a legal one.

That does remind me of the culture shock I had when I was serving in South Korea and was at a club in the city(not on base) and went to the bathroom to find both guys and girls in there. Guys use the urinal, girls used the stall. This was back in 91-92. Wonder what its like now?

[Prokne]

Yeah it wasn't a law because it was not common to see people of the opposite sex go into the wrong restroom on a consistent basis, something which is new now. This is really more of a moral issue than a legal one, for the people that are against what Target is doing. But as I said, gender restrictions have been going on for a VERY long time, for generations people have found them reasonable and have had no problem, including a LOT Of people today. So why not respect their wish for privacy?

Women have been using the men's room when the line is long for decades, it is nothing new. The only thing that is new is that Republicans want to hate on transgender people since they lost their fight against gay marriage. And as far as bathrooms are concerned, the privacy of a stall should be enough between people of opposite gender (although transpeople are the same gender) as it is between people of the same gender.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

And yet you seemed to have an issue with someone who looks like a woman using the lady's room while possessing a penis...

Here's the reality of the situation, a woman who has a penis going into the women's restroom, you're not going to know the difference, whether it's target or some other store that doesn't have this policy. What you supposedly want is people using the same restroom as their genitals, but if a burly looking man walked into the woman's restroom while one of your girls was in there, you'd flip out... even if this person had a vagina. You just wouldn't know unless they dropped trou and flashed you.

Your side of the argument is the only one that keeps bringing up law abiding trans-gendered people. You refuse to acknowledge that our complaint is not "ewww transgender people are gross," but rather that under this rule, Larry the cable guy could follow my daughters into that bathroom so long as he said he's transgender and I could not go in there to watch them unless I did the same. You further refuse to acknowledge that men are prevented from entering ladies rooms by the threat men like me pose when a frantic woman comes out of the ladies room saying some creepy guy is in there. If that happened, I and probably a half dozen other angry assholes would be in there like a pack of rabid wolves. This is how most social norms, especially those with regards to the privacy of women, are enforced.

[Wells]

Women have been using the men's room when the line is long for decades, it is nothing new. The only thing that is new is that Republicans want to hate on transgender people since they lost their fight against gay marriage. And as far as bathrooms are concerned, the privacy of a stall should be enough between people of opposite gender (although transpeople are the same gender) as it is between people of the same gender.

Its basically 2004 all over again, just with a new sexual minority.

[Prokne]

No, there must be restrooms for both men/women separate. That's also reflected accordingly in the building codes, and business permits
There are exceptions for very very small venues.

Building codes and permits only state that there has to be two separate bathrooms (and ones that are handicap accessible), they do not say who has to use which one.

[Merkava]

Got it, you don't know what sex crime means.

"I'm not worried about sex crimes, I'm worried about things like voyeurism."

No, you don't know how to read. I'm not the one who brought up the idea of sex crimes.

[Wildtree]

Building codes and permits only state that there has to be two separate bathrooms (and ones that are handicap accessible), they do not say who has to use which one.

Well, you better stick with the one labeled for you, if you don't want to face sexual harassment charges.

[Merkava]

The easy solution is for a doctor or therapist to write something like a permission slip that says this person is legally transgender. People who just decided they are transgender don't really need to start using the opposite bathroom immediately anyway, and it would only take one appointment to be legitimized. I'm not sure exactly why bathroom non-discrimination laws after the Huston debacle didn't think about adding qualifiers for who counts as transgender for the purpose of using specific restrooms, it would have quashed the rapist impersonating TGs BS.

No. That's not what the law says. It's a lot more restrictive than that. A lot of states require a letter from a doctor saying that they've actually performed sexual reassignment surgery. http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your...x-designations

[Wells]

Your side of the argument is the only one that keeps bringing up law abiding trans-gendered people. You refuse to acknowledge that our complaint is not "ewww transgender people are gross," but rather that under this rule, Larry the cable guy could follow my daughters into that bathroom so long as he said he's transgender and I could not go in there to watch them unless I did the same. You further refuse to acknowledge that men are prevented from entering ladies rooms by the threat men like me pose when a frantic woman comes out of the ladies room saying some creepy guy is in there. If that happened, I and probably a half dozen other angry assholes would be in there like a pack of rabid wolves. This is how most social norms, especially those with regards to the privacy of women, are enforced.

We already have laws for if the guy in the bathroom with your daughter does something that is actually bad. As we have no issue of people abusing trans rights for sexual abuse there's no problem here to solve.

[Felya]

it kept the neighbors of the San Bernardino terrorist from reporting suspicious activities out of fear of not being PC
so tell me who is the delusional one again?

The suspicious behavior was receiving a lot of packages and working in the garage... What did that have to do with the actual shooting?

[ArguesWithStrangers]

We already have laws for if the guy in the bathroom with your daughter does something that is actually bad. As we have no issue of people abusing trans rights for sexual abuse there's no problem here to solve.

So I'm wrong for not wanting a man to be in the room with my daughter while she's peeing? Why stop at transgendered? Why prevent any man from being in there?