One million Americans vow to boycott Target over transgender bathrooms

[Wells]

Chuckle, I don't usually masturbate to C-SPAN but I guess if you're into that it's fine. As to the passing of laws, I've not mentioned it once in this discussion. I was referring to a store policy and my decision not spend my money there.

You see, the difference between me and most of you, is I believe in private property and free markets. Target, being a private enterprise, has the right to do whatever they wish with their bathrooms. I, being a private consumer, have the right to do whatever I wish with my money. I don't need government to validate my personal morality. In fact, I'd prefer they didn't. I don't trust them with that kind of power.

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Agree 100%. Most people are selective in their application of freedom however. They only want it applied to people and ideologies they personally support.

You've spent the entire thread carrying water for laws banning transgeder people from the bathroom of their identifying gender...

[Underverse]

And this is just how a business should work. It will either feel effects (negative or positive) of its policies or it won't. This how a free society should work.

A business only stays open if the local population allows it to. This is why I personally find anti-discrimination laws silly at their core. If someone for example won't serve jews then the backlash publicly will either make them sink or swim.

If they isolate themselves to only bigotted customers why should anyone care? Shop somewhere else.

This is the cultural relativist's approach. If we were all cultural relativists, though, nothing would ever change because we would have no moral impetus to change.

We've pretty much decided as a society that unwarranted discrimination is bad. I don't particularly see a problem with enforcing cultural change with law in order to move towards a more open society.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

Is the privacy of a stall not enough?

The vast majority of clothing stores I go to have unisex changing areas, with many individual stalls. Is this not sufficient?

Clearly it is not for me but that does not answer my question. I asked where the line is drawn for all of you, and if that line is anywhere short of the privacy of a woman's home, how do you justify one and not the other?

[Merkava]

Please remind me of when I said you were bigoted. And yes it is sarcasm as the examples I listed are stereotypical sexoffenders. And what evidence? You posted a link with little to no context. Am I supposed to go through that entire thread and read all your comments and replies? And the few I did read it seems you were talking about religion. Religion has no place in this argument. And as far as calling you out on your ability to comprehend, it was justified.

I thought you were asking me if I was one of those things. Now I see that you were only asking if I was a sex offender. That's so much better. (that's sarcasm). Either way, fuck off.

[Maconi]

Bathrooms were never designed for genders or sexual preferences to begin with. I never understood this issue from the start. They're designed around whichever genital you have on your body. It doesn't matter what you look like or what your claimed "gender" is.

Just change the signs on bathrooms to say Penis or Vagina and be done with it I say.

[Vurdah]

And this is just how a business should work. It will either feel effects (negative or positive) of its policies or it won't. This how a free society should work.

A business only stays open if the local population allows it to. This is why I personally find anti-discrimination laws silly at their core. If someone for example won't serve jews then the backlash publicly will either make them sink or swim.

If they isolate themselves to only bigotted customers why should anyone care? Shop somewhere else.

Not having anti-discrimination laws seems fine until someone is denied medical treatment based on the color of their skin or their religion. Why allow assholes to make life harder for people just because they don't agree with that person's lifestyle, race or religion.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

You've spent the entire thread carrying water for laws banning transgeder people from the bathroom of their identifying gender...

Newp, I've spent the entire thread pointing out that it is not bigoted to boycott a business that places my wife and daughters in an uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situation for a politically correct publicity stunt. You must be thinking of someone else.

[Underverse]

Clearly it is not for me but that does not answer my question. I asked where the line is drawn for all of you, and if that line is anywhere short of the privacy of a woman's home, how do you justify one and not the other?

You've skipped over the critical premise of defining what you call 'her space'. And so to you I will say that a woman is essentially always justified in not wanting a man in her space.

This is consistent with defining an individual's space as a stall.

[Merkava]

Newp, I've spent the entire thread pointing out that it is not bigoted to boycott a business that places my wife and daughters in an uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situation for a politically correct publicity stunt. You must be thinking of someone else.

Well said.

[Wells]

Newp, I've spent the entire thread pointing out that it is not bigoted to boycott a business that places my wife and daughters in an uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situation for a politically correct publicity stunt. You must be thinking of someone else.

I'm having a pretty good laugh at how half ass your efforts are if avoiding a store that doesn't actively discriminate against .3% of the US population is how you do it. I assume if you had a son though you'd have no problem with him using the men's room?

I'm frankly baffled though that people can be all like "man this public bathroom was so not awkward before Danny-now-Danielle walked in".

[Underverse]

Bathrooms were never designed for genders or sexual preferences to begin with. I never understood this issue from the start. They're designed around whichever genital you have on your body. It doesn't matter what you look like or what your claimed "gender" is.

Just change the signs on bathrooms to say Penis or Vagina and be done with it I say.

Why not 'finger'? Why not 'eyeball'?

We're all humans. We've been pissing next to one another for millenia. This idea of gender segregation is a recent invention.

[Wells]

Well said.

And as we've pointed out over and over again that evaluation of danger is more rooted in transphobia than reason.

[Sunaka]

Newp, I've spent the entire thread pointing out that it is not bigoted to boycott a business that places my wife and daughters in an uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situation for a politically correct publicity stunt. You must be thinking of someone else.

A policy they've had for far longer than the law's implementation is a publicity stunt?

[Merkava]

And as we've pointed out over and over again that evaluation of danger is more rooted in transphobia than reason.

I don't know that that's been pointed out successfully at all.

Edit, and he did say "uncomfortable" as well.

[TITAN308]

Not having anti-discrimination laws seems fine until someone is denied medical treatment based on the color of their skin or their religion. Why allow assholes to make life harder for people just because they don't agree with that person's lifestyle, race or religion.

You are right, I would definitely draw a line at anything that requires medical attention.

[Wells]

I don't know that that's been pointed out successfully at all.

Which is basically just saying you don't agree with the people you don't agree with.

There's been no rash of predators using transgender status as a tool to commit crimes. You people act like Target is changing the status quo and they're not. They're just reaffirming what happens in bathrooms all over the country.

[Underverse]

Newp, I've spent the entire thread pointing out that it is not bigoted to boycott a business that places my wife and daughters in an uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situation for a politically correct publicity stunt. You must be thinking of someone else.

Potentially dangerous? That defines all situations, without exception, given any environment with incomplete information.

Uncomfortable? Maybe. But that's more of a personal problem. People can feel uncomfortable under a plethora of circumstances, many of which are utterly subjective and worse, irrational. I have a feeling that you don't support the idea of 'safe spaces' though, so it's likely that hypocrisy abounds.

[Maconi]

Why not 'finger'? Why not 'eyeball'?

We're all humans. We've been pissing next to one another for millenia. This idea of gender segregation is a recent invention.

That's alright in concept, but I'm talking short-term. We already have millions of bathrooms built for each "gender" (see urinals). You could just slap "Unisex" on both doors but I think that would get an even worse response than the current situation.

Also I think a lot of fears come from the fact that bathrooms are private places. There are no cameras and a lot of them don't see much traffic. People feel vulnerable when they're in there all alone and someone else comes in. You could easily eliminate the fear of sexual assault by just saying "this bathroom is only for people with this genital" IMO (which seems like a reasonable compromise for this whole transgender argument).

[Merkava]

Which is basically just saying you don't agree with the people you don't agree with.

There's been no rash of predators using transgender status as a tool to commit crimes. You people act like Target is changing the status quo and they're not. They're just reaffirming what happens in bathrooms all over the country.

1. Sure.

2. There need not be any rash of anything for me to know that it's bad policy. Is nothing to do with trans people, and everything to do with creating opportunities for people with ill intent to do harm by claiming that they're trans.

[alucardtnuoc]

Do people forget that unisex bathrooms are a thing? As far as I am aware, we didn't see a spike in harassment when those were introduced in more locations.