Russia's foreign minister warns Sweden off Nato

[Deleted]

The threat comes from Sweden, if it adds itself to an anti-Russian hostile military alliance, Russia is just informing that it will add Swe to list of countries it will need to counter to ensure Russia stays secure. Sweden can choose to remain neutral and most people seem to favor that, so there is no real threat methinks. Ofc the Russophobes will twist words n try to make it seems like Russia is reacting for no reason.

No real threat methinks? Its a underlying threat... Your ambassador did not come and say, I am so sorry that Russian bomber did train attack run against Sweden, some not to bright in my military did not think about how threatening such exercise can be interpreted, and it will not be repeated.

Try to bully sombady to do one thing usually leads to a sharp counter reaction. Nobady did care about NATO before Putins new foreign policy.

[zealo]

Seriously, why should a nation which had the luck to get past those years while keeping its neutrality, that is absolutely under no threat of attack by russia as it's well protected as part of the EU, join the ranks of an entity that as you described yourself, is nothing more than relics of a war one decades ago?

Sweden is only neutral on paper.

There is regularly joint Nato exercises going on, we have close ties to the west, and have taken part in military Nato operations such as Afghanistan and Libya.

[Skroe]

Sweden is only neutral on paper.

There is regularly joint Nato exercises going on, we have close ties to the west, and have taken part in military Nato operations such as Afghanistan and Libya.

And it's worth pointing out, Sweden's entire armed forces has long conformed to NATO equipment standards. Not it's own standards. Not Russian / Warsaw Pact standards. NATO Standards. This is no small thing as the US and UK in particular have been working on bringing Poland up to that standard for over 15 years and they still probably have another 15 years of work ahead of them. And of the ex-Soviet States, Poland is in among the best shape.

Making recent inductees NATO-compatible, in terms of signals, procedures, ammunition, fuel, communications, organization and so forth, is a huge project for recent inductees. It's a huge project for existing members: NATO has Two commands mind you, the more prominent and famous "Supreme Allied Commander-Europe", based in Brussels, that is always a US General/Admiral, and the far more low key, but just as important (and commands a much larger staff) "Supreme Allied Commander-Transformation", based in Norfolk, Virgina, now always a French General/Admiral.

That Sweden has done this makes gives them essentially LEGO-like compatibility with NATO. They'd need to be snapped on, but integrating them would be easier than integrating probably anyone else in the world. It's not like they'd have to junk anything of what they currently have, unlike what the ex-Eastern Bloc nations have been doing for 15 years.

[Noradin]

Air-thin argument : EU is an economical union. One that has no military whatsoever - and what it has, barely functions.

You seem to be a bit misinformed. They do have military units.

[Gorgodeus]

I understand what you're saying. European security doesn't come in the form of bombs though. We have this thing called trading. European and Russian economy are already intertwined in such a way that one attacking the other would have catastrophic economic consequences. Banks collapsing and all that jazz. This is how we do security. Long term security that is.

There is no way in earth putin or anyone is going to invade the EU and be responsible for the collapse of the economy

Trade has never, and never will, have anything to do with whether or not a country will go to war against another country.

[Wyrt]

Trade has never, and never will, have anything to do with whether or not a country will go to war against another country.

Huh? The English and Dutch had a series of wars over trade routes and shit.

[Noradin]

I don't understand why NATO enforcing is borders is seen as "preventing Russian agression" and Russia just mentioning that it would enforce its borders in response to these actions is "agression".

Who said anything about attacking Sweden?

Right, because Russia never tried to destabilize its neighbours before nor did it ever invade or occupy anyone...

[Skroe]

Huh? The English and Dutch had a series of wars over trade routes and shit.

He means that a country will ultimately never prioritize economic relationships over security, if truly forced to choose, which is absolutely true.

Existence of Russian-EU trade won't in itself prevent Russian-EU hostility.

[Gorgodeus]

Huh? The English and Dutch had a series of wars over trade routes and shit.

I meant it in the context of trade with another country has never stopped war from happening between the 2.

[Orange Joe]

Trade has never, and never will, have anything to do with whether or not a country will go to war against another country.

Most wars in the history of mankind have been over resources......

[Deleted]

Russia is not close to a threat that Soviet Union was. They sense a change is coming ,due to the China challenging status quo and American domination. They want a better place in new world order so they flexing their muscles to show they are still relevant so no new deal would be made without them.

[Deleted]

And it's worth pointing out, Sweden's entire armed forces has long conformed to NATO equipment standards.

What armed forces? Like, almost every government after Tage Erlander has been dismantling them.

[Slant]

The Swedish military trains with NATO occasionally or at least they used to.

Sweden joining NATO would be a show of solidarity with Europe and it would send Putin a message about his bullying but it's not necessary.

Sweden is in Europe. Not sure if you can show solidarity with yourself like that. If Putin has an ounce of grey mass in his head, which is still debatable if you ask me, he'll realise that Sweden being in NATO or not makes no difference.

[Orange Joe]

Sweden is in Europe. Not sure if you can show solidarity with yourself like that. If Putin has an ounce of grey mass in his head, which is still debatable if you ask me, he'll realise that Sweden being in NATO or not makes no difference.

tbf you are putting this on Putin when he wasn't the one to say anything.


Or has he personally said something in the past?

[Slant]

Trade has never, and never will, have anything to do with whether or not a country will go to war against another country.

And yet, for 70 years the European Community (now the EU) is a living breathing example of Europe doing just that. I cannot stress enough what a monumental historical achievement this is. Again, for the n-thousandth time on this forum, Europe is at peace for the first time in 2000 years.

I kinda wish I could take a sledgehammer to bludgeon this into people's head, because it is just that enormous that only a sledgehammer would provide the physical impract to drive the point home. Alas, you'll have to digest it for yourself. Look through any history book you can find, this... is as unprecedented as it can be. And the EU is the main factor for that.

[Deleted]

I'm happy Austria isn't in NATO. We don't have to deal with this bollocks. ^^

I agree with that. Austria being neutral has its advantages.

[Slant]

What armed forces? Like, almost every government after Tage Erlander has been dismantling them.

Everyone is downplaying their own armed forces, with the US being the exception. Fact is, when we're talking winter warfare, the nordic countries will be the ones that teach us how to do it. Germans know how to lug a Leo2 around, but we have only a very little idea about what -40 degrees does to the Leo and how to fix those problems. Sweden does.

[Deleted]

Everyone is downplaying their own armed forces, with the US being the exception. Fact is, when we're talking winter warfare, the nordic countries will be the ones that teach us how to do it. Germans know how to lug a Leo2 around, but we have only a very little idea about what -40 degrees does to the Leo and how to fix those problems. Sweden does.

O_O

It doesn't get that cold in Sweden...

And I'm not "downplaying", I'm talking about how the governments have been dismantling the military piece by piece after Erlander.

[Slant]

tbf you are putting this on Putin when he wasn't the one to say anything.


Or has he personally said something in the past?

Well, considering that he pretty much dictates everyone else's speeches, I'm blaming it all on Putin, not his puppets. Heck, even Medvedev was Putin's puppet when he was in actual power.

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O_O

It doesn't get that cold in Sweden...

I just grabbed a random degree number. Fact is, Germany doesn't get much colder than -5 degrees, if ever. -10 and we break out the arctic equipment. We know how to deal with rain, mud and all that shit, but actual deep snow? Not one of our strong suits, except for our mountain ranger units, of course. Who are an infantry division with only light armor if anything...

Germany has reduced the army, too. You don't need 500k grunts if nothing's going on. Specialise in what you do best, have a smaller but more professional army and if something happens, you can always conscript people off the street to do the gruntwork (which requires minimal training).

[Deleted]

First of all NATO is done. It was a pact designed to "keep Germans under the heel, Americans in Europe and Soviets out of Europe". Soviet Union is no more. Americans (which military is NATO basically) are slashing their land forces and shifting to pacific to counter chinese growing influence there. Putin knows this, and that is why he is pulling his stunts here, especially towards Sweden and Eastern Europe to make them question "Where are your Americans?".