Russia's foreign minister warns Sweden off Nato

[Slant]

Democratic process? Nope. We have no say in who gets elected from other countries. There's no reason why they should be able to influence how things are going in Sweden when they're not elected by us.



I already do. One of the parties in the government are against EU, too. Left party, Green party(In the government now) and the Sweden Democrats are against EU.

Good, so you can stop whining now.

[Uzkin]

So you believe that should Russia actually defeat the NATO they wouldn't come after you just because you didn't bow down to the Sovjets?

Depends on the details of the scenario. If, for example, the war started because Turkey attacked Russian forces, prompting a retaliation from Russia which then dragged the entire NATO into war, followed by Russia decisively defeating NATO... then, yes, I can't see them 'coming after us' once the war was over as long as we stayed neutral throughout the war. (Just IMHO. Can't speak for Summer, obviously.)

[zealo]

O_O

It doesn't get that cold in Sweden...

It actually does, although not in the southern parts of this country. The military has a mechanized division near such possible winter conditions in Boden.

[Slant]

Depends on the details of the scenario. If, for example, the war started because Turkey attacked Russian forces, prompting a retaliation from Russia which then dragged the entire NATO into war, followed by Russia decisively defeating NATO... then, yes, I can't see them 'coming after us' once the war was over as long as we stayed neutral throughout the war. (Just IMHO. Can't speak for Summer, obviously.)

Turkey attacking Russia wouldn't drag NATO into a war, since Turkey was the aggressor. NATO is entirely a defensive pact and only activates once a member state is attacked first.

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It actually does, although not in the southern parts of this country. The military has a mechanized division near such possible winter conditions in Boden.

I know, we're using your northern bases to learn alot about cold temperatures fucking our vehicles up and also for winter survival. You guys know your stuff around snow and ice.

[Noradin]

Why do you think I'm against it? Non-swedish politicians shouldn't have a say on what's going on here. If you want to make changes in Sweden through politics then you should have to be a citizen here and run a party platform here or vote for parties that have it in their party programme to do what you want changed, in Sweden. Not in the EU-parliament, because the vast majority of those politicians aren't elected by us.

So, are you against international (bilateral) treaties, too?
You know, because there is another side involved in setting the terms, not just Sweden.
Are you an isolationist?

If you go to the grocer, do you expect to set the price for the items you wish to puchase? You know, because he is not part of your family...

[Deleted]

Sweden will remain neutral simply because they're so PC that they don't want to piss of any side.

[Slant]

So, are you against international (bilateral) treaties, too?
You know, because there is another side involved in setting the terms, not just Sweden.
Are you an isolationist?

If you go to the grocer, do you expect to set the price for the items you wish to puchase? You know, because he is not part of your family...

Damn, that's some fine points you made. Why didn't I think of that.

[Deleted]

So, are you against international (bilateral) treaties, too?
You know, because there is another side involved in setting the terms, not just Sweden.
Are you an isolationist?

No, there's 3 sides in this. Swedish politicians, the EU politicians who aren't Swedish and then the third part. The EU politicians who aren't Swedish shouldn't have a say in what we're doing. Bilateral implies a treatie between two parts, there's no two parts in the first place when EU politicians butt in like they do.

[Noradin]

No, there's 3 sides in this. Swedish politicians, the EU politicians who aren't Swedish and then the third part. The EU politicians who aren't Swedish shouldn't have a say in what we're doing.

Can you repeat that in a way that makes sense to others, please?
What "third part" that you say should have a say in this (when it is about agreements between EU memberstates) are you talking about?
As far as I am concerned agreements between EU memberstates should involve the (democratically) appointed politicans of EU memberstates and not politicans from Sweden and some mysterious third party but no one from the rest of the EU.

Sounds like you want to make agreements with a third party and have the rest of the EU pay for it but have no say in the matter.

[Deleted]

Can you repeat that in a way that makes sense to others, please?

It makes perfect sense. Bilateral means it is two parts only. If we're to make an agreement with another country, EU politicians who aren't Swedish shouldn't fucking butt in, but they are meddling in our business.

[Slant]

No, there's 3 sides in this. Swedish politicians, the EU politicians who aren't Swedish and then the third part. The EU politicians who aren't Swedish shouldn't have a say in what we're doing. Bilateral implies a treatie between two parts, there's no two parts in the first place when EU politicians butt in like they do.

You do realise that the EU can't actually pass laws for Sweden, right? You have to ratify it in your national parliament. I mean, you did know that, right?

[Deleted]

You do realise that the EU can't actually pass laws for Sweden, right? You have to ratify it in your national parliament. I mean, you did know that, right?

1. The European Commission proposes a new law
The European Commission is charged with the task of proposing new laws. All the member states each have one Commissioner. The Commissioners' role is to promote the best interests of the EU as a whole, rather than representing their own particular countries.

2. The Government and the Swedish Parliament - the Riksdag - adopt a position
The European Commission sends its proposals to all the member states. In Sweden, they are submitted to the Government and the Riksdag. The Government informs the Riksdag of its view of the proposals and collects comments from the Riksdag. It is the Government that presents Sweden's views.

3. The European Parliament decides
The European Parliament participates in deciding on the EU's new laws. The MEPs are elected in general elections, and 20 of them are elected in Sweden.

In the case of most issues, the European Parliament decides together with the Council of Ministers. For certain issues, the European Parliament does not make the decisions. These include EU foreign and security policy.

4. The Council of Ministers decides
The Swedish Government and all the other governments of the EU member states each participate in the EU Council of Ministers with one minister. The Council of Ministers decides on new EU legislation.

The Swedish Government will have discussed the proposals with the Riksdag in advance.

5. Sweden implements the legislation
Once the Council of Ministers has decided on a new law, Sweden and the other member states will introduce the law. Sometimes the Riksdag may need to make amendments to Swedish laws to make them agree with the EU's new laws. In other cases, the EU's laws take immediate effect.

Scrutiny by the Riksdag
In addition to scrutinising and giving its views to the Government, the Swedish Parliament – the Riksdag – also has another task in common with the other national parliaments in the EU. When the EU proposes new laws in certain areas, the parliaments in the member states must first examine whether the rules are needed at EU level or whether it is better that each member state decides on the rules individually. This examination may result in the Commission having to reconsider its proposal.

What happens if Sweden does not follow EU rules?
The European Commission checks that member states follow the laws that the EU has decided upon. If the Commission considers that Sweden is not doing this, it may sue Sweden in the EU Court of Justice.

The task of the EU Court is then to decide on whether Sweden has violated EU rules. Swedish courts may also turn to the EU Court of Justice with questions on how EU rules should be interpreted.

If you consider that Sweden or any other member state is not following EU rules, you can report this yourself to the European Commission.

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Yes, they can pass laws for Sweden. All we can do is state our opinion on it.

[Slant]

Yes, they can pass laws for Sweden.

You're ignoring the part where "Sweden implements the legislation". That's the bit where something the EU suggests (in some cases) or demands (in some cases) becomes an actual legal reality. This means that not only could Sweden reject anything they like, because they are enforcing the rules for Swedes, it also means that Sweden can adjust in accordance with the EU guideline that leads to the law to make it appropriate for the specific Swedish needs/situation.

But hey, blame the EU for something they can't legally do. It shows your understanding of the legal procedures and is a bit embarassing by now, but don't let me interrupt your ranting...

Btw, did you know that Sweden can reject a law proposal and have it revised by the CoJ? If they agree, it goes back to the planning stage. But heck, what do I know. The EU is really a big conspiracy to fuck Sweden up. Sorry, I'll let you continue now...

[Deleted]

You're ignoring the part where "Sweden implements the legislation".

You're ignoring the part where it's not voted for in the swedish parliament. We don't vote about the implementation of it, it just gets implemented with immediate effect if it passes in EU.

[Slant]

You're ignoring the part where it's not voted for in the swedish parliament. We don't vote about the implementation of it, it just gets implemented with immediate effect if it passes in EU.

You actually do. But, what do I know...

[Deleted]

You actually do. But, what do I know...

No, we don't.

[Slant]

No, we don't.

Well, then... that makes Sweden undemocratic. But not the EU. You sure you're not confusing who you should be hating on?

[Deleted]

Well, then... that makes Sweden undemocratic. But not the EU. You sure you're not confusing who you should be hating on?

That's on EU because that's their doing.

[Slant]

That's on EU because that's their doing.

Nope. Again, learn about history. It'll be good for you. Everything that happened involving Sweden has been ratified, voted upon, agreed to by Sweden. At every single step of the way. That's the whole point of the EU and how it evolved. That nobody asked YOUR ignorant ass about your opinion is a purely Swedish problem and has nothing to do with the EU.

[Noradin]

It makes perfect sense. Bilateral means it is two parts only. If we're to make an agreement with another country, EU politicians who aren't Swedish shouldn't fucking butt in, but they are meddling in our business.

So you want to make bilateral treaties with other EU members but won't give them a say in the matter? That is a bold opinion on how the world should work!