Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Exactly this. Thank you Blizzard!

I know we often see Blizzard as an entity that is evil and only care about milking others ad infinitum. But I know, for working in the industry, that this is not true. A lot of devs are passionnate about a lot of things. But most of the time, if there's no demand, they cannot do anything.

To see Blizzard opening themselves like this, to invite Nostalrius and Kern, by creating a discussion area on the forum, they've shown us how their public practices have matured. To have a message from the executive producer himself is proof that they care and will do everything in their power to get the heart of their old players back.

[kary]

I do try, it is the only way to stay sane on these threads. Is this permission to name it after you? I am still a bit irked I cannot credit the inventor of the Tedium Rule but he is a bit of a difficult personality and doesn't appreciate the fame he would receive.

Rym's Excellent Unprovability Conundrum?

Rofl, you're yet to disprove anything.
Even 40 man content in vanilla, you couldn't progress until you finished the tedious task of outfitting 40 people with resistance gear.
Then grinding out molten core for gear to do bwl. Then grinding bwl to do aq. Then grinding Aq to do naxx. Then hopefully doing naxx enough to get enough warriors to do 4h, and then grinding to get enough frost resist to do sapphiron.

But clearly think that changing font colours and memes makes your argument a good one

[Deleted]

I do try, it is the only way to stay sane on these threads. Is this permission to name it after you?

Only, if i may correct it to become

Deficineirons's unappealing ridicule of everything that doesnt appeal to his mindset

Corrected that for you.

[AztechZero]

Just thought I'd note something since there seems to be some debate about when WoW was the most popular.

Yes, WotlK is when subs hit their all time high however..vanilla and TBC saw the most growth by far. Make of that information what you will.

[Eliseus]

So WotLK sustained basically steady numbers with a gradual increase. That was their peak, but some companies would argue that it wasn't the most successful though. They would argue Classic and TBC were due to the shear amount of increases in numbers. I think WotLK was most successfully personally, not only hitting peak numbers then, but basically sustaining numbers an entire expansion. This is one reason I also view MoP as somewhat successful.

[Relapses]

Legacy servers are going to bring more players back, not only that but they can help retain players during content droughts. Long story short the game is going to get more subscribers even if it tanks, and if it doesn't tank, and is massively successful, well I think it's safe to say blizzard stands to make a lot of money. A lot of that shit would likely go back into the retail version of the game. So blizzard wins, retail players win, and legacy players win. What's the problem?

This is patently false. How do you know that a Legacy realm would help "retain customers"? Just because you'd play it doesn't mean the majority of players who get bored during a content drought would as well. How do you know that it'll bring back long term customers? How do you know that whatever surge in interest Legacy might bring wouldn't simply create an account, realize how inferior the experience is to retail WoW then never play it again?

You're drawing a lot of conclusions based off of your own biased opinion that Legacy realms would be good for the community. You're asking Blizzard to spend a lot of development time on something that has absolutely no guarantee to be a net positive for the WoW population.

[Mullet Man]

Am I just falling for a troll or is this "logic" just inescapable?

It's flame bait.
Many, most, of the anti-classic posters in the thread now are just trolling people.
Any disagreement with them, however small, is met with fallacy attacks, and ad-hominem.

This is what it really comes down to:

...then there's the rest of us, who just want you to shut the fuck up already...

[Deleted]

1,000,000 accounts and 150,000 regular players can easily be compared to Blizzards 100,000,000 accounts and at peak, 12,500,000 active players

Yeah, they are roughly the same.. sorry that i am sarcastic here.

So, even at WoWs peak, on a player retention basis, Nost wins.

Not really, if you remember the fact those 100 million are from 10 years wow played and the peak you talk about was being reached in the first 4 years.

You're grasping at straws.

No, i actually bring up arguments. You may try to counter them.

[Deleted]

Guy's don't waste your time with that "Rym" guy. I have seen him discuss a bunch of issues and he will never awknowledge a good point by anybody. Just ignore him and get on with your day.

[Eliseus]

It's flame bait.
Many, most, of the anti-classic posters in the thread now are just trolling people.
Any disagreement with them, however small, is met with fallacy attacks, and ad-hominem.

This is what it really comes down to:

Yeah, the person you quoted doesn't even realize how bad they even have become. First step is admitting you are in denial.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Guy's don't waste your time with that "Rym" guy. I have seen him discuss a bunch of issues and he will never awknowledge a good point by anybody. Just ignore him and get on with your day.

Agreed. It's fun to watch things from a 3rd person point of view. As I've decided not to engage with the negativity, it's easier to observe humans dynamics. It's genuinely fascinating and much easier, as being an observer allow to detach yourself from the subjectivity.

[Deleted]

Guy's don't waste your time with that "Rym" guy. I have seen him discuss a bunch of issues and he will never awknowledge a good point by anybody.

I will only acknowledge really good points. And not hearsay, argumentums ad hominems or argumentums ad populum..

[Mullet Man]

You're asking Blizzard to spend a lot of development time on something that has absolutely no guarantee to be a net positive for the WoW population.

What are your suggestions and requests for Blizzard that have an "absolute guarantee of a net positive for the WoW population"?

[RickJamesLich]

This is patently false. How do you know that a Legacy realm would help "retain customers"? Just because you'd play it doesn't mean the majority of players who get bored during a content drought would as well. How do you know that it'll bring back long term customers? How do you know that whatever surge in interest Legacy might bring wouldn't simply create an account, realize how inferior the experience is to retail WoW then never play it again?

You're drawing a lot of conclusions based off of your own biased opinion that Legacy realms would be good for the community. You're asking Blizzard to spend a lot of development time on something that has absolutely no guarantee to be a net positive for the WoW population.

Um.... no doubt you've seen yourself during the content droughts, players do weird things to stay entertained. Whether it's getting into pet battles, farming for old world mounts, or collecting achievements. All of that stuff gets boring *extremely* fast. Legacy servers on the flip side is real content for people that get bored during content droughts with a much larger shelf life, to the point where I'd honestly have to say vanilla has a larger shelf life than WoD.... the same will likely hold true for legion as well.

No doubt once people see the server's population blowing up (Nost's server had around 13k to 15k players at peak times.... from what I understand, blizzard doesn't even have half of this population on any of their realms), it's going to attract A LOT of attention from people that haven't ever even played vanilla. And we saw with Nost also that people weren't just creating accounts and then leaving because it sucked, rather the server got so big that blizzard themselves had to take legal action to stop them.

So yeah I'm drawing lots of conclusions - but there definitely is a lot of evidence out there that these things would be very successful. And we're not really asking blizzard to spend a lot of development time, rather let the Nost team do what they do best.

[Eapoe]

Actually, he asked for proof. I gave him samples. The vocal minority/majority don't matter in the argument. I simply did what you guys will not. Provided something. Some of you have jumped so far as to claim the current WoW population doesn't want Legacy servers. So again, I went and provided samples of how much of the vocal minority you guys are. Proof again, was provided. Where is yours?

Supplied time and time again, every time you've asked, that you then plug your ears going "la la la not listening there's no proof!" Again, 200k+ signed a petition, 1 million subs (highest reported by Nost which weren't even active) makes you a vocal minority, but I guess that's not proof to you.
So, just to go by your own standards of arguement and debate: the majority/minority topic isn't even an issue, so where's your proof? That link doesn't show anything other than 1200 people voted on the topic and is not a clear representation of what people want. It's even fair to say that Nost players truly want to play retail, but seeing as how there is the taboo of having quit a game once how embarrassing it is to come back you now want a reason to pay for a sub fee and be invited back in the door to continue in retail. Again, there is no proof in your numbers as that does not clearly represent what the playerbase wants, and since minority numbers don't matter then where is your actual proof? Exactly, you have none.

There, I think I represented you accurately.

[Deleted]

As I've decided not to engage with the negativity, it's easier to observe humans dynamics. It's genuinely fascinating and much easier, as being an observer allow to detach yourself from the subjectivity.

While you are subjective filtering on what you accept as informations. You are literally creating a filter bubble. And try to encourage to turn the thread into a echo chamber.

Will not work, friend.

[Deleted]

I will only acknowledge really good points. And not hearsay, argumentums ad hominems or argumentums ad populum..

But that's the thing though, you don't do that. OP brought up valid points and you dismissed him/her because the argument made sense and went against your own narrative

[Sliske]

I will only acknowledge really good points. And not hearsay, argumentums ad hominems or argumentums ad populum..

So you've found yourlogicalfallacyis.com and become the greatest debater ever. You never lose! In fact, you never even admit you were wrong, even when you were!

[Deleted]

So you've found yourlogicalfallacyis.com and become the greatest debater ever. You never lose! In fact, you never even admit you were wrong, even when you were!

So fcking true LOL

[Deleted]

But that's the thing though, you don't do that. OP brought up valid points and you dismissed him/her because the argument made sense and went against your own narrative

Not at all. I actually adressed his ideas with own arguments. It is up to him to counter the argments, if he can do, without trying to disqualify me as like you try.. with another ad hominem ala "rym never accepts any other viewpoint, so ignore him"..