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  1. #1381
    There's nothing wrong with him promoting his board game. It's not like he did all this petition stuff to shamelessly self promote himself.

    Oh wait-
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  2. #1382
    Deleted
    Note to myself: Dont play the board game.

  3. #1383
    Not sure if it's this thread or another related one, but there's a new buzzword going around: PROPAGANDA! So let's look at all sides on this topic and their supposed propaganda:

    Since there aren't a lot of strict anti Legacy people, I'll lump those with don't care/concerned/so-called White Knights together:
    1). Pointing out Kern's failings as a leader/dev and problems that arose while at Red5 (sourced, albeit some heresay by an unnamed employee)
    2). Pointing out concerns of the impact that Legacy can have on retail (not will, but could)
    3). Debating if people would stay subbed long enough to actually bring a profit or if worth it at all for Blizzard
    4). Debating old vs new WoW and whether it should be regressed on a separate server.
    5). Allegations that some pro Legacy followers made threats to a YT personality to physically assault her.
    6). Pro Legacy have rose tinted glasses and ignore failings of vanilla

    Pro Legacy:
    1). Stating that expressing concerns about a feature automatically make you anti Legacy, and sometimes anti WoW
    2). expressing concerns or citing information about someone's past are direct attacks and spreading propaganda
    3). Mark Kern has no fallacies when it comes to WoW and nothing else he's ever done has no bearing on anything else, ever
    4). Citing any proof offered by anyone against their ideals has no proof and is wrong and resulting to ad hominem attacks
    5). Stating that Legacy will do nothing but good for everyone

    Just some things to consider when accusing one side of spewing propaganda.

  4. #1384
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadzooks View Post
    There's an urban myth being propagated that if you're against illegal servers, that means you "hate" them, and you want them shut down as a personal attack on the players who us them. Nothing could be further from the truth - while there may be a few cranks around who do feel that way, most of the posters who aren't part of the L Is For Legacy crowd don't hate Legacy servers at all. They just point out that they're illegal, that Blizzard is justified in suing, and justified in saying they're not interested in making them. Which is met with a virtual flood of "They're LYING! They're just greedy! They're just LAZY!" posts.

    If Blizzard announces they're going to throw away millions on legacy severs, or less likely, allow illegal servers to operate? I could give a flying fuck. Go play them. No skin off my nose whatsoever.

    WHat's happening here is the same herd mentality/groupthink that you get in politics. "You vote Republican? YOU WANT TO SHOOT PEOPLE!" "You vote Democrat? YOU WANT TO KILL BABIES!" "You have doubts about global warming science? YOU ARE A HERETIC AND MUST BURN AT THE STAKE!"

    It's called "demonization" and it's a well worn tactic in politics. It's being used here on MMO-C constantly. If you DARE try to correct their more blatantly wrong comments, or how twisted and faulty their logic is, or how baseless their claims are, then it's "OMG YOU BLIZZARD ASS KISSER GO PLAY LEGION FAGGOT".

    There trying to claim purity, when their hands are the dirtiest in the whole lot. Their hypocrisy is fascinating in a clinical sense, and amusing, for now. Like you said, people are getting tired of it. The backlash will be real.

    That was the most polemical anti-polemic I ever read. The disconnect is staggering here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    Note to myself: Dont play the board game.
    Looks like he said tabletop rpg.

  5. #1385
    Quote Originally Posted by Marakesh View Post
    That was the most polemical anti-polemic I ever read. The disconnect is staggering here.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Looks like he said tabletop rpg.
    Isn't this kind of proving his point though?

  6. #1386
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Isn't this kind of proving his point though?
    So you're saying, that by raging against perceived bad actors in this forum, he is actually showing us by counter example that we should write more coherent and relevant arguments? WoW, I didn't see that coming. Absolute brilliance on his part, went right over my head.

  7. #1387
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    There's nothing wrong with him promoting his board game. It's not like he did all this petition stuff to shamelessly self promote himself.

    Oh wait-
    Hes killing 2 birds with 1 stone, don't be mad. Promoting himself and being an advocate for legacy servers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Ah come on Granyala, there's several possible reasons for it. A few that would get us banned here like pointing out a deficite in his mental capacity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oktoberfest View Post
    Man I swear, every time someone uses the term 'Critical Thinking' I want to pop em in the mouth.

  8. #1388
    Quote Originally Posted by Bapestar View Post
    Hes killing 2 birds with 1 stone, don't be mad. Promoting himself and being an advocate for legacy servers.
    I would agree, if it were not for the fact that despite being a developer of WoW, none of us here would have knew of him, or would ever know. The fact we're talking about him is a testament to the self promotion. After all, it's not just an open letter to Blizzard; it's an open letter to Blizzard from Mark Kern
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  9. #1389
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    I would agree, if it were not for the fact that despite being a developer of WoW, none of us here would have knew of him, or would ever know. The fact we're talking about him is a testament to the self promotion. After all, it's not just an open letter to Blizzard; it's an open letter to Blizzard from Mark Kern
    Personally I'm grateful that this guy got involved and by doing so, he really legitimized this issue it appears. Not just him, but a variety of twitch streamers, youtube personalities and others helped accelerate the momentum on this issue and the chances of some good things coming from this ordeal seem to be getting bigger and bigger. So for me, I don't care if Mark Kern made this about him, I personally don't think that's the case at all though, rather he's a credible voice that got blizzard's attention in a way the players themselves were having trouble in doing.

  10. #1390
    Quote Originally Posted by Marakesh View Post
    So you're saying, that by raging against perceived bad actors in this forum, he is actually showing us by counter example that we should write more coherent and relevant arguments? WoW, I didn't see that coming. Absolute brilliance on his part, went right over my head.
    Put simply, he wrote an objective post in what he's seen happening from these forums, to which you (1) imply that he is disconnected, showing that you believe he has no real input into the matter. You then (2) then imply that you are attacking him by way of your comments of disconnect and being a polemic anti-polemic.
    When questioned as to your post doing exactly the things he is addressing in an attempt to get stopped, you then (3) answer back with a sarcastic response in an attempt to undermine my question as to what you are doing. Witty though it was, you are continuing the habit he is in fact stressing that some people are known to do.

  11. #1391
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Put simply, he wrote an objective post in what he's seen happening from these forums, to which you (1) imply that he is disconnected, showing that you believe he has no real input into the matter. You then (2) then imply that you are attacking him by way of your comments of disconnect and being a polemic anti-polemic.
    When questioned as to your post doing exactly the things he is addressing in an attempt to get stopped, you then (3) answer back with a sarcastic response in an attempt to undermine my question as to what you are doing. Witty though it was, you are continuing the habit he is in fact stressing that some people are known to do.
    He was doing the same thing he was claiming was so terrible. Over the top characterization of other people here, and the fact is, that's all he seems to do. Its easier to just point it out in a sentence or 2 and move on. There are people who have something to say in these threads bloated with diatribes, just have to pick when and where.

  12. #1392
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    I would agree, if it were not for the fact that despite being a developer of WoW, none of us here would have knew of him, or would ever know. The fact we're talking about him is a testament to the self promotion. After all, it's not just an open letter to Blizzard; it's an open letter to Blizzard from Mark Kern
    now if it was an open letter to blizz from Rob Pardo, totally different thing. He may still be under a contract clause which prevents him from making any public statement on blizzard business decisions without pre-clearing with them (such as he might make as part of general comments at a conference/presentation).
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  13. #1393
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    So you want Vanilla realms, that aren't vanilla realms. Cause you know, "pvp" content was almost non existant on Vanilla outside of Battlegrounds, and general PvP was about as fun as getting kicked in the nuts with steel-toed boots unless you were one of the handful of classes that were just utterly broken with the right gear and became literal pvp gods. Oh, and PvP viablility swung WILDLY for many classes between patches, so which patch flavour are we talking about? And Community Events? Rotfl, more "vanilla but tweaked to be better so it's not actually vanilla" drivel.
    For context, we were talking about how to keep raiders that feel like there is no content left in the game after beating the last boss interested in the game, obviously there are no good answers when attempting to cater to people like that.

  14. #1394
    Okay, so here's one for the conspiracy people. I was thinking about one one Moana's posts about Blizz meeting to discuss legalities of Nost becoming a Blizz supported server. Here's the conspiracy, are you ready? Mind about to be blown:
    This was all discussed, planned, and executed BEFORE NOST WAS EVEN SHUT DOWN!!! Now hear me out. Blizz has stated Legacy is something they'd like to do and always discuss, but never able to get off the ground with everything going on. They hear about this Nost server, a server that's popular amongst the Vanilla fans, and the brain wheels start turning. At some point, they start e-mailing each other and plan. Blizz approaches Nost very simply, "we can shut you down legally, but here's a better proposition, we would like to endorse you. We will negotiate a contract that states you get to manage and run a Legacy server, but you need to abide by our decisions and rules, and you can even keep some of the profits as a monthly charge will be implemented."
    Well, this is a great idea right, but how do we get it rolling to seem official? Obviously Blizz can't outright endorse them, otherwise they have to endorse all other private servers doing the same thing. So now they go back to the original statement, "let's 'shut them down.'" Also, Blizz needs someone to spearhead the movement, who would they know that has ties to WoW but no affiliation with them anymore? Enter Kern (who's entrance to the Legacy cause seems kinda convenient on its own). A man who knows Blizz with no ties to them, but if he joins the Legacy crew becomes relevant again and can promote his new game company he's working on.
    Do you guys get it!!!??? This was all planned from the get go to get right to this point! A blizzard approved Legacy server where they take little risk but still keep rights on and get a little profit while Nost stays in business and makes fans happy.
    MIND...FUCKING...BLOWN!!!
    Okay, I'm tired and wanted to be funny, please don't take this to heart and hope you all get a chuckle from it.

  15. #1395
    For context, we were talking about how to keep raiders that feel like there is no content left in the game after beating the last boss interested in the game, obviously there are no good answers when attempting to cater to people like that.
    How about not designing the content to be cleared on launch day?

    I had a mix of heroic and mythic gear from blackrock foundry and HFC normal (2 difficulties down) had HUGE player power upgrades in the form of new trinkets, new tier sets and ring items. The best choice by a mile was to go stomp over every boss on the easiest difficulty on day 1 rather than actually progressing anything, and blizzard designed the game to be that way.

  16. #1396
    Quote Originally Posted by Svisalith View Post
    How about not designing the content to be cleared on launch day?

    I had a mix of heroic and mythic gear from blackrock foundry and HFC normal (2 difficulties down) had HUGE player power upgrades in the form of new trinkets, new tier sets and ring items. The best choice by a mile was to go stomp over every boss on the easiest difficulty on day 1 rather than actually progressing anything, and blizzard designed the game to be that way.
    Blizzard designed the game to appeal to mass market. They are still trying to find that balance (in my opinion) with things like LFR and mythic difficulties with normal/heroic as an in between. Now, I'd be fine with them removing normal or heroic, but not both as there is a progression to it. If all you are looking for is the lore and wanting to kill bosses to see the story, or maybe don't have time to dedicate to a guild or raid schedule, then LFR fits that bill. If you are looking for the challenge and feels of taking down the bosses on the hardest difficulty and working together with your guild and pushing yourself as a player, then go mythic.

  17. #1397
    Deleted
    I dont know. For me, its fine with the legacy realms.

    But, keep in mind. The majority of people on nostalrius were there mainly because it was free.
    Getting legacy realms is fine by me, and i would prob. create a trashy and dusty alt on the realm. But i would never main it. Been there, done that. But having an alt for re-live the old days could be fun. Even tho i wouldnt give a damn about the character

  18. #1398
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderchain View Post
    I dont know. For me, its fine with the legacy realms.

    But, keep in mind. The majority of people on nostalrius were there mainly because it was free.

    Getting legacy realms is fine by me, and i would prob. create a trashy and dusty alt on the realm. But i would never main it. Been there, done that. But having an alt for re-live the old days could be fun. Even tho i wouldnt give a damn about the character
    stop making sense, just ask any of the pro-nost people, everyone there would gladly pay to play it, even though nost couldn't even get enough donations to keep the servers going

  19. #1399
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vichan View Post
    stop making sense, just ask any of the pro-nost people, everyone there would gladly pay to play it, even though nost couldn't even get enough donations to keep the servers going

    I was playing on Nost and I wasn't even aware they needed donations. Never got an Email from them or anything

  20. #1400
    Quote Originally Posted by Vichan View Post
    stop making sense, just ask any of the pro-nost people, everyone there would gladly pay to play it, even though nost couldn't even get enough donations to keep the servers going
    You contradicted yourself in a sentence.
    Whoever loves let him flourish. / Let him perish who knows not love. / Let him perish twice who forbids love. - Pompeii

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